Two years at a time...

[DVS]

First, I stick with the desire of everybody concerned not to mention this guy's name. He's John Lennon's killer and that's not anything to be famous for. I wish the article had done the same.

John Lennon's killer denied parole! Of course, in another two years, he comes up again. I don't really care that much for Yoko Ono, but I do respect how she has kept up with this case, and voiced her concerns about letting the killer out. She said she fears for her life and those of her family, if he is let out.

In fact, the killer had stated that John was just the easiest accessible target for him and his desire for fame (infamy). He also had thought of killing Johnny Carson, and James Taylor. This article also mentions Elisabeth Taylor, who I hadn't heard of before so maybe somewhere the two Taylor names got mixed up.

It just goes to show that this guy cared nothing for the life of a human being and I agree that letting him out would only cause anybody with any kind of fame to have another reason to worry when out in public. I don't think he should ever be let out. Unlike Charles Manson, this guy actually did kill someone. They will never let Charlie out, and they should never let this guy out. The same with the guy who shot Pres. Reagan. Anybody who stalks and shoots someone like that should never be let out.

Sure, John Lennon was an idol of mine and that makes it more powerful for me. But, he wouldn't have been a target without that. All famous people are targets of people like this. The list isn't short for those killed by nobodies just to become somebody.

This also brings me to the guy who killed all of those kids in Norway. I can't fathom the loss of so many young and vibrant kids, just because the guy considered them the enemy.

And this also shows the difference in the laws of countries. I thought this guy should have received the death penalty, but I hear he wanted that, so I understand why they didn't give it to him. But, I think the only other alternative would be life without parole, so he would rot in jail. After all, he gunned down 77 defenseless people, many under the age of 18. But the sentence was 21 years? Isn't that a little bit light for killing so many? Maybe I don't understand Norway justice. This is their maximum sentence?

I don't think Lennon's killer will ever get out. At least I hope he doesn't. But I also think that the Norway killer should never get out, either. But, he's not that old. Isn't 21 years kind of a light sentence for someone who shows no remorse for what he did?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Justice is not a competitive sport, DVS.

 

[DVS]

Justice is not a competitive sport, DVS.

You want to explain that a little better? I don't consider killing or justice for killing a sport.

 

[Netzach]

In 21 years he's up for release, but he will almost undoubtedly be refused release at that point. They're not into the death penalty but they're not stupid over there either.

 

[DVS]

In 21 years he's up for release, but he will almost undoubtedly be refused release at that point. They're not into the death penalty but they're not stupid over there either.

The sentencing description is misleading, if that's the case. It sounds like straight 21 and out.

Just found this:

Mr. Breivik, lawyers say, will live in a prison outside Oslo in a three-cell suite of rooms equipped with exercise equipment, a television and a laptop, albeit one without Internet access. If he is not considered a threat after serving his sentence, the maximum available under Norwegian law, he will be eligible for release in 2033, at the age of 53.

However, his demeanor, testimony and declaration that he would have liked to kill more people helped convince the judges that, however lenient the sentence seems, Mr. Breivik is unlikely ever to be released from prison. He could be kept there indefinitely by judges adding a succession of five-year extensions to his sentence.

The relative leniency of the sentence imposed on Mr. Breivik, the worst criminal modern Scandinavia has known, is no anomaly. Rather, it is consistent with Norway’s general approach to criminal justice. Like the rest of Europe — and in contrast with much of the United States, whose criminal justice system is considered by many Europeans to be cruelly punitive — Norway no longer has the death penalty and considers prison more a means for rehabilitation than retribution.

 

[Netzach]

This definitely challenges their system, don't get me wrong. Americans look at this guy's IKEA esque suite and lose their minds. It's described as straight 21 in the press that wants to make everyone but us look like blithering idealistic idiots, but if you read a little closer, you see that this guy is very unlikely to ever leave prison.

I have to wonder about our system when I read stuff like this, from Anthony Graves, exonerated after 18 years in prison.

http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/12-6-19GravesTestimony.pdf

Punishing the guilty is all well and good, but with the sheer number of people we love to put in the hole, you have to wonder how many innocent people being caught up are worth sacrificing.

knowing what we know about race, access, prison privatization, police, civil liberties, I don't understand how any American can still feel secure with a punish them kill them let God sort them out approach to justice any more.

 

[DVS]

This definitely challenges their system, don't get me wrong. Americans look at this guy's IKEA esque suite and lose their minds. It's described as straight 21 in the press that wants to make everyone but us look like blithering idealistic idiots, but if you read a little closer, you see that this guy is very unlikely to ever leave prison.

I have to wonder about our system when I read stuff like this, from Anthony Graves, exonerated after 18 years in prison.

http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/12-6-19GravesTestimony.pdf

Punishing the guilty is all well and good, but with the sheer number of people we love to put in the hole, you have to wonder how many innocent people being caught up are worth sacrificing.

knowing what we know about race, access, prison privatization, police, civil liberties, I don't understand how any American can still feel secure with a punish them kill them let God sort them out approach to justice any more.

You're preaching to the choir about our prison system. I believe in capital punishment, but ONLY if there is no doubt what so ever that we have the correct person. But, there are so many prosecutors who come up for reelection and need a scapegoat for a big trial or some coroner who alters a test to show they found enough evidence to convict when there wasn't any in the first place...don't get me started. It's just too easy to "convict" the wrong person. So, unless and until we can fix our own human failures and apathy, I don't like our prison system.

But, in this case, even the convicted says he killed all of those kids. I can only imagine what the mother of a 15 year old girl who was shot at point blank range, while she tried to hide behind a tree or maybe shot in the back as she ran for cover thinks of this guy. And this guy is going to have living conditions that I might enjoy, if I decided to go on a killing spree.

Just like the Aurora, Colorado killer...we know he's the guy. To just come out and randomly start shooting at defenseless people has got to be worthy of a pretty nasty life in jail, at least.

I don't know anything about the PDF file you attached, but he does mention some pretty terrible conditions. If innocent, he should have never been there in the first place, but that goes back to my first paragraph of this post. Make sure we have the correct individual. If we are sure, I don't care how they are treated. They made a choice to kill. And if the killing was decided heinous enough to get them a death penalty verdict, so be it.

But, before we decide on all of this, fix our system and its errors. The system isn't working. I don't care if they say it's the best system around. If it isn't working, it's broken. We can't continue putting people to death who are found innocent after the fact.

Just the small things that I've experienced in my own life tells me that our government system, be it civil, county, state or federal, all have major flaws. It's just that nobody understands unless it happens to them. And when it does happen to them, others just assume they did it and say, "well, the system worked." Trust me, I know.

 

[DVS]

Justice is not a competitive sport, DVS.

You want to explain that a little better? I don't consider killing or justice for killing a sport.

Still waiting for an explanation of what you meant with the above post, Stella.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I meant that you are comparing two sentences in two separate cases in two different countries that have two different systems and philosophies of justice. it's an apples and oranges kind of thing, and you're demanding apple juice from an orange tree.

 

[DVS]

I meant that you are comparing two sentences in two separate cases in two different countries that have two different systems and philosophies of justice. it's an apples and oranges kind of thing, and you're demanding apple juice from an orange tree.

Once again, Stella, that's what you think is going on, so that's what's going on.

I'm merely making a point and maybe sparking a discussion. I'm not comparing any two governments or any two systems. I might state what one does and what another does as a comparison, because they are the status quo. But ultimately, I'm just stating my opinion and what I think should be done when such terrible crimes are committed.

Agree or disagree, I don't care. Comment or don't comment, as you wish. Just don't assume you know what I'm talking about because once again, it's obvious that you don't.

 

[Netzach]

This won't make me popular, but I think Aurora is completely batshit insane. Like, too crazy to put in the chair, but too crazy to ever let out into gen pop again. I see a very smart person losing his grip slowly to the point of completely over time when I read about him, from my armchair perspective.

 

[DVS]

This won't make me popular, but I think Aurora is completely batshit insane. Like, too crazy to put in the chair, but too crazy to ever let out into gen pop again. I see a very smart person losing his grip slowly to the point of completely over time when I read about him, from my armchair perspective.

I don't disagree. Thinking from a sane society member's perspective, you just have to think someone who would do such a thing has to be bat shit crazy. But, I haven't heard if he's been found sane or not. The trial is sequestered. But the one time I saw him in court, he didn't look like he was all there.

Would someone actually be so evil to think up such an act on perfect strangers? Columbine was based on revenge for the way the trench coat mafia had been treated by the jocks and socialite segments of the school population. While I think that had to involve some emotional issues and could have been based on a less than balanced home life, however warped it was, they at least had a reason for what they did. Even the Norway killer had a reason.

From everything I've heard, we have yet to hear any kind of reason for the Aurora shootings and you really have to wonder how someone could have one. That then assumes he is insane.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Once again, Stella, that's what you think is going on, so that's what's going on.

I'm merely making a point and maybe sparking a discussion. I'm not comparing any two governments or any two systems. I might state what one does and what another does as a comparison, because they are the status quo. But ultimately, I'm just stating my opinion and what I think should be done when such terrible crimes are committed.

Agree or disagree, I don't care. Comment or don't comment, as you wish. Just don't assume you know what I'm talking about because once again, it's obvious that you don't.

I disagreed, and I commented.

I assumed that the words you placed on the screen were chosen by you and ordered in such a way as to make the sense that you intended.
if you are using the English language in some new improved manner-- far be it from me to attempt to make sense of it.

 

[tessie_bluebird]

IMO... humble or not... the prison system, if meant to be punitive, should actually be punitive... aside from basic human needs, creature comforts shouldn't be allowed. If your prison system is meant to be rehabilitative, then comforts and time off for good behavior can be earned. The problem with the US system is that it is trying to be both and doing a poor job of being either.

 

[Netzach]

The problem with the US system is that it's a criminal college at most, and there is nothing done for people who are exonerated or served time once out, so there's no reason for people not to put their new-found skills and contacts to use. One of the problems, anyway, take your pick.

Personally I don't care about creature comfort issues. I honestly don't care if a first-degree murderer or kid-toucher winds up with a better standard of living than I've got, what I want is for that person to be segregated from the rest of us, period, so it doesn't happen again. If he/she finds god and repents, great, do it somewhere else. There's no reason to maximize that person's suffering, to me, out of some retribution urge, just keep them the fuck away, in a clean, acceptable, highly regulated and monitored and scrutinized NON PRIVATELY OWNED space. I think that's an unemotional common sense practical way of seeing it. No one should have rat infested food and lifelong health problems and ha ha, prison rape, ha ha - as part of incarceration because hello, we keep getting a lot of WRONG PEOPLE in this system.

If everyone seething with eye for an eyeness (and trust me, I LOVE revenge and just desserts, just realize it doesn't work very well in real life) assumed for one minute that their favorite person on earth wound up in the system by accident, we'd have a much saner society, but a lot of people want to think this only happens to "others"

Poverty criminalization (loitering, really?) and drugs need to be low-level priorities and crimes against person high priorities. As we know, this isn't the case. All the gateway theories in the world have landed us the most imprisoned society in the industrial world. How's that working out?

 

[Stella_Omega]

IMO... humble or not... the prison system, if meant to be punitive, should actually be punitive... aside from basic human needs, creature comforts shouldn't be allowed. If your prison system is meant to be rehabilitative, then comforts and time off for good behavior can be earned. The problem with the US system is that it is trying to be both and doing a poor job of being either.

Naw. The mouth noise is that there should be rehabilitation, but the reality is that the more prisoners incarcerated, the bigger the profits for the private corps that run them.