Turning a thread on its head.

[alohadave]

When does the proper use sound just so stilted that you can't possibly use it?

Not using contractions is an indicator of two things: overly formal speech, and non-native speakers.

Both are fine in their place, when used to indicate that the speaker is posh or foreign. But native speakers would never speak without contractions unless for emphasis. It sounds wrong to how most people talk.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Not using contractions is an indicator of two things: overly formal speech, and non-native speakers.

Or a futuristic Android in space.

Both are fine in their place, when used to indicate that the speaker is posh or foreign. But native speakers would never speak without contractions unless for emphasis. It sounds wrong to how most people talk.

Playing with this for a possible Chinese character. Broken, stilted English, spoken well with good diction, but missing certain natural elements.

 

[Voboy]

Playing with this for a possible Chinese character. Broken, stilted English, spoken well with good diction, but missing certain natural elements.

And... with a dong.

 

[alohadave]

Example: walking through the forest for the first time, the old tree almost hit us when it fell.

This involves a dangling participle, and it's a mess, because the way the participial phrase (starting with "walking") is attached next to "the old tree", it reads as though the old tree was walking.

Does anyone actually think that the tree was walking? Or is this one of those technically accurate things that people use to point out bad grammar?

Unless you are reading a story that involves walking trees, no reasonable person reading that is going to think that a tree was walking.

 

[SimonDoom]

Does anyone actually think that the tree was walking? Or is this one of those technically accurate things that people use to point out bad grammar?

Unless you are reading a story that involves walking trees, no reasonable person reading that is going to think that a tree was walking.

No, but that is how it reads. The point is I can't think of any case where the dangling participle reads better. There's always a better way to do it. "I could make it out OK" is not a good test of good English. Try to cone up with an example of using a dangling participle where it's the best way to do it.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I sometimes go to vernacular a bit. More often, my dialog is an easy speaking. I skip lots of the proper grammar rules. Ending with a preposition is one of the first

If you want dialogue to feel real and natural. You have to forget written grammar rules.
If it's important to the story that it feels like an actual conversation between everyday people, then that's the way it should be written.
That's my preference anyway.

 

[lovecraft68]

If you want dialogue to feel real and natural. You have to forget written grammar rules.
If it's important to the story that it feels like an actual conversation between everyday people, then that's the way it should be written.
That's my preference anyway.

Way back when, someone told me that before you start writing dialogue hang out in crowds and listen to people speak to each other and how they butcher 'proper grammar'. Few people speak the way the rules dictate they should.

My wife has achieved the highest designation in Toastmaster, a public speaking club, and won several competitions during which her speech is on par with being 'correct' any other time she mangles grammar with the best of them when she's chatting with people.

These days I feel that if your characters speak to properly, you're looking at a potential AI rejection

 

[AG31]

I thought of another:

Who wouldn't say "Who did you get in a fight with?"

in preference to "With whom did you get in a fight?

 

[AG31]

Way back when, someone told me that before you start writing dialogue hang out in crowds and listen to people speak to each other and how they butcher 'proper grammar'. Few people speak the way the rules dictate they should.

My wife has achieved the highest designation in Toastmaster, a public speaking club, and won several competitions during which her speech is on par with being 'correct' any other time she mangles grammar with the best of them when she's chatting with people.

These days I feel that if your characters speak to properly, you're looking at a potential AI rejection

Just to remind people. The OP concerned our own real life speech.

 

[Voboy]

I thought of another:

Who wouldn't say "Who did you get in a fight with?"

in preference to "With whom did you get in a fight?

*into

 

[Gamblnluck]

Not using contractions is an indicator of two things: overly formal speech, and non-native speakers.

I often do not use contractions in my own speech. I use a few like it's but I often use do not instead of don't. Do not is emphatic not formal, don't is softer. "I don't want to go vs I do not want to go."
My editor insists on virtually all contractions. He has relaxed a bit when I explained my own usage.

 

[SimonDoom]

I thought of another:

Who wouldn't say "Who did you get in a fight with?"

in preference to "With whom did you get in a fight?

But nobody regards this as a firm rule anymore. It's generally regarded as acceptable to end a sentence in a preposition.

 

[AG31]

But nobody regards this as a firm rule anymore. It's generally regarded as acceptable to end a sentence in a preposition.

How about "whom?"

 

[stickygirl]

But nobody regards this as a firm rule anymore. It's generally regarded as acceptable to end a sentence in a preposition.

A preposition is a terrible thing to end a sentence with

 

[SimonDoom]

How about "whom?"

Is Grammatically proper but can sound pedantic.

 

[stickygirl]

How about "whom?"

I googled and got this
"Whom" is used as the object of a verb or preposition, while "who" is used as the subject. Think of it this way: if you can replace the word with "him," "her," or "them," use "whom"; if you can replace it with "he," "she," or "they," use "who".

... so that really helps...

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Who dangles their participles?

Or, is that whom?

For whom do the participles dangle?

 

[Voboy]

Who dangles their participles?

Or, is that whom?

For whom do the participles dangle?

Ask not for whom the participles dangle. They dangle for thee.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

A little bell tolled you that?

 

[Voboy]

A little bell tolled you that?

You're such a ding-a-ling.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Chuck Berry I isn't.

 

[TheRedChamber]

The sweat wis lashing oafay Sick Boy; he wis trembling. Ah wis jist sitting thair, focusing oan the telly, tryin no tae notice the cunt. He wis bringing me doon. Ah tried tae keep ma attention oan the Jean–Claude Van Damme video.

As happens in such movies, they started oaf wi an obligatory dramatic opening. Then the next phase ay the picture involved building up the tension through introducing the dastardly villain and sticking the weak plot thegither. Any minute now though, auld Jean–Claude's ready tae git doon tae some serious swedgin.

– Rents. Ah've goat tae see Mother Superior, Sick Boy gasped, shaking his heid.

- Aw, ah sais. Ah wanted the radge tae jist fuck off ootay ma visage, tae go oan his ain, n jist leave us wi Jean–Claude. Oan the other hand, ah'd be gitting sick tae before long, and if that cunt went n scored, he'd haud oot oan us. They call urn Sick Boy, no because he's eywis sick wi junk withdrawal, but because he's just one sick cunt.

– Let's fuckin go, he snapped desperately.

– Haud oan a second. Ah wanted tae see Jean–Claude smash up this arrogant fucker. If we went now, ah wouldnae git tae watch it. Ah'd be too fucked by the time we goat back, and in any case it wid probably be a few days later. That meant ah'd git hit fir fuckin back charges fi the shoap oan a video ah hudnae even goat a deck at.

Say what you like about Irving Welsh, I bet none of his stories have ever gotten rejected for AI.

I'd argue that for a writer often a better question that 'Is it formally grammatically correct?' is 'Is it what I meant?'

 

[SimonDoom]

I think people are confusing dangling participles with ending sentences with prepositions. They are two completely different things. The general level of ridiculousness in this thread, however, makes it difficult to tell if the confusion is real.

 

[Voboy]

I think people are confusing dangling participles with ending sentences with prepositions. They are two completely different things. The general level of ridiculousness in this thread, however, makes it difficult to tell if the confusion is real.

Lol. I just mentioned a dangling participle because I remember being told, as a boy, that they're bad. I'm not exactly 100% sure I could define what it is.

I'm a guy who knows how to use language without knowing what any of it is called.

 

[TheLobster]

Being writers of erotica, I'd argue we should minimize the number of things that dangle and replace them with those that proudly jut forward.