Trying To Understand

[the_pet]

For those that top, does it sexually arouse you or do you do it for other reasons? I know this question sounds strange but i have a point... really. I ask because i have had, on a few or so occasions, had or chose to top. I really don't care for it for two reasons. One..... it does nothing for me sexually. I do not become aroused at all! On the contrary i actually begin to feel quite detacted and emotionless EXCEPT for (and here's reason number two) enjoying causing them pain/suffering and humiliating the person. I DON'T LIKE TO HURT PEOPLE NORMALLY. But when I'm whipping someone's bare ass, etc. and making them suffer other ways, i gain a huge amount of satisfaction out of inflicting it..... but NOT sexual arousal.... other than enjoying kicking their ass, i find it quite boring. How much i enjoy inflicting pain kind of scares me too. I think i like it a little too much... you know. I think i'm confused because while i enjoy it... it doesn't do anything for me sexually.

I hope i'm making sense, my thoughts are jumbled. Please feel free to ignore me.


pet

 

[Sir_Winston54]

For those that top, does it sexually arouse you or do you do it for other reasons? I know this question sounds strange but i have a point... really. I ask because i have had, on a few or so occasions, had or chose to top. I really don't care for it for two reasons. One..... it does nothing for me sexually. I do not become aroused at all! On the contrary i actually begin to feel quite detacted and emotionless EXCEPT for (and here's reason number two) enjoying causing them pain/suffering and humiliating the person. I DON'T LIKE TO HURT PEOPLE NORMALLY. But when I'm whipping someone's bare ass, etc. and making them suffer other ways, i gain a huge amount of satisfaction out of inflicting it..... but NOT sexual arousal.... other than enjoying kicking their ass, i find it quite boring. How much i enjoy inflicting pain kind of scares me too. I think i like it a little too much... you know. I think i'm confused because while i enjoy it... it doesn't do anything for me sexually.

I hope i'm making sense, my thoughts are jumbled. Please feel free to ignore me.

pet

Of course, I can only speak from my own experience, and knowledge of my own motivations and reactions. For me, there is both an emotional and a sexual component, as well as (stay with me here!) an artistic component. (The following applies primarily to physical topping, not a D/s relationship-type topping.)

EMOTIONAL: Like you, I do enjoy spanking, flogging, caning a bare ass, and get a certain emotional satisfaction from doing so, just for the sake of - as you put it - kickin' ass. I like the feeling of power gained through inflicting pain on a willing partner, seeking new ways to enhance the sensation (e.g., through brief "breaks" when I soothe and caress with a bunny-fur mitt, then come back even harder than before with whichever tool I'm using).

SEXUAL: While the sexual arousal component is not always a major component, it's always there, because my chosen targets are female, and to have that control and power over them is a turn-on, sexually, at least to some extent, even if the target is not a sexual partner.

ARTISTIC: This has two major components for me - the physical artistry of the ass-whuppin' I'm doing, and the emotional artistry of the experience.

Examples of the Physical: 1) Pink-to-red handprints on a pale white bottom. Those handprints melding and merging to present a thoroughly reddened, heat-radiating "picture." 2) Flogger tracks - streaks and stripes, intertwined and parallel, twisted and straight, on bottom, back, thighs, breasts, stomach. 3) Crop and cane - stripes and welts, some stripes ripening into bruises, perhaps even a few drops or trickles of blood where the skin has broken slightly. (In another thread long ago, I discussed a night at a play party when I used a cane to "draw" a tic-tac-toe playing field on my sub's ass, and another Dom/Sadist and I used a washable marker to play games... and refreshed the pattern when the welts began to fade. Damn wet cloth we used to wipe "the board" also cooled and soothed the welts! )​

Emotional: 1) Knowing, or finding, the exact point at which the "target" can reach subspace, and how to hold her there. 2) Knowing, or finding, how much she can take physically and mentally when the object is not enabling her to reach subspace, and how much I can push her soft limits. Both of these require a certain empathy with the "target," an understanding of her thought processes and emotions, and her stability. 3) Finding out just how far I can go, in a purely physical sense, before she starts *thinking* about a safeword, and holding at that point - that takes a certain amount of experience with a particular bottom, but there is still a certain amount of art involved to get to that point without going beyond it. The satisfaction of correctly gauging her responses, whatever the goal, is intense.​

But that's just me - I'm looking forward to hearing from others with their points of view. Great topic, the_pet!

 

[BiBunny]

Seconding Sir Winston's comments. I'm going to try to add a few of my own, but I'm kinda sleepy, so I'm not promising they'll make any sense (or be very PC for that matter).

For me, any sort of S&M play is a stress reliever. It depends on what kind of mood I'm in as to whether I want to be on the giving end or the receiving end. It tends to be that I prefer to bottom when I'm in a more sad, introspective mood and Top when I'm in a more grumpy mood. (Yeah, just call me the bipolar perv! ) Blistering a nice subbie ass when I'm in that kind of mood sends me flying in all different kinds of ways.

I can be a bit of an egomaniac sometimes, so it's a huge power trip for me to be able to mix pleasure and pain so well for my bottom that he/she would move mountains just for me to touch him/her again. Part of what gets my rocks off is knowing that this person finds me irresistible in that moment. Knowing that he/she will endure pain just because I want to dish it out is pretty damn hot, too. Suffering makes a person more beautiful in my eyes as well. (Please don't ask me to explain this! I can't!)

And, yes, it makes me incredibly wet to hear whimpers and screams and begging for mercy.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Very interesting question and I am looking forward to reading the responses.

I don't think I would ever want to Top because I would be afraid that I would enjoy inflicting pain too much.

 

[neonflux]

Hi Pet,

As did BiBunny, I think that Sir_Winston described much of the appeal of sadism for me, as well. I like his turn-on categories of emotional, sexual, and artistic - I would also add a fourth - spiritual. I will try to add some aspects of my own experiences:

Artistic - I am just finally becoming skilled enough with using my toys to be able to "play" a bottom emotionally in the way that Sir_Winston describes and it is very much like being a musician - I played flute and piano when younger and I love being able to blend emotional strings (pleasure, pain, fear, relief) into a "musical harmony." I am also a graphic artist and so there is tremendous aesthetic appeal to rope bondage (restraints are easier, but rope is beautiful) and to wax play. I very much want to learn play piercing and eventually branding for the same reason. If I could afford a velvet wand, I'd use it to make "sunburn patterns."

Sexual - as early as 16, I had fantasies of raking my nails along a partner's back deeply enough to break skin during MY orgasms, LOL. I am middle-of-the-kinsey scale bi so Topping is very much a sexual turn-on, regardless of my partner's gender (although I have played with more men than women to this point). Some of it has to do with power - my former play partner was switch like me, and I have only recently begun to play with people who are wired for submission. What I can only describe as the "yielding" of a submissive partner is a complete sexual turn-on for me, whether or not there is any genital play. I understand the profound gift of submission and the bottom's desire for my touch definitely fuels my own, as does the sheer enjoyment of causing physical pain to someone who actually gets off on it.

Emotional - BiBunny made the point that suffering makes someone more beautiful in her eyes. I would concur - I think in part for me because of the vulnerability. What I have found truly interesting for myself is that I am never more affectionate than when I am being sadistic. I know that this truly sounds like a paradox, but my sadism is accompanied by a profound desire to protect - I fall in love a little with everyone I Top - I don't have the same response when I bottom (which is a much greedier act for me, believe it or not). I also think Topping is a whole LOT of fun - I am not much into humiliation but I greatly enjoy embarrassing a submissive partner once I know them well - I do a lot of teasing and I love a bit of sammy (but not brat) in the people I Top, also. It is called play, after all, LOL.

Spiritual - when there is a strong emotional connection between me and the person who is bottoming to me, when the energy flow is effortless, when I find my Top Space, the world expands and while my "holding" the scene gives it it's own "bubble," I also feel as though I am in touch with Infinity. I took a class in finding your Dominant personality - I am also a trainer and teacher and it came as no surprise that my primary Play Persona is that of Crone/Priestess/Guide. Keeping the possibility open of having a strong spiritual connection with someone is paramount when I play - I love eye contact and almost never use a blindfold... (I also want to learn mummification, so that would be one exception.)

I agree that this is an excellent question and enjoyed very much thinking through my own response. Thank you!

Neon

 

[myinnerslut]

(Yeah, just call me the bipolar perv! )

*points finger at bunny* bipolar perv!!

since i actually am, i consider that a compliment

 

[Netzach]

It really depends. Sexual arousal for me can happen independent of SM. I do find that when I'm being sexual with someone and I get them to a point of helplessness this intensifies the sex for me in a giant quantuum leap of "fuck yeahhhh" Methods can be pain pleasure restraint, don't really care.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't get sexually aroused from delivering pain, but I have a morbid fascination for it and have discovered the sadist in me. For me I can take pride in how and what I do, and also the fact it is answering a need in someone else which I can well indentify with from my own needs. I enjoy the connection, the reading of the bottom, the pleasure they experience, and more than anything I love their endurance and hunger. I have been lucky to have only ever dealt with bottoms/subs who liked it hard and harder, and have been able to convey that to me well enough before the event for me not to hold back.

Catalina

 

[Ebonyfire]

To me it is all about the power exchange. Sex is just sex to me and it does not have to be a component within D/s. Many of ths submissives I deal with I do not find sexually appealing, but I do find their submission very appealing.

I look at sex as a tool that I use to control a submissive, so his view about what is sexual or erotic does not really matter to me. As long as he submits, we are both on the same page.

However if a submissive sees me as a sex object, that is his problem not mine. If I have a submissive partner or significant other, then he is of course in a personal relationship with me and I am his owner. The whole dynamic is different from the one I have with "pure" submissives.

For one thing my subs hardly ever are allowed to touch me anywhere in a sexual manner. It is one of my little requirements. In fact, he has to ask person to touch me. And I frequently say no.

 

[Netzach]

To me it is all about the power exchange. Sex is just sex to me and it does not have to be a component within D/s. Many of ths submissives I deal with I do not find sexually appealing, but I do find their submission very appealing.

I look at sex as a tool that I use to control a submissive, so his view about what is sexual or erotic does not really matter to me. As long as he submits, we are both on the same page.

However if a submissive sees me as a sex object, that is his problem not mine. If I have a submissive partner or significant other, then he is of course in a personal relationship with me and I am his owner. The whole dynamic is different from the one I have with "pure" submissives.

For one thing my subs hardly ever are allowed to touch me anywhere in a sexual manner. It is one of my little requirements. In fact, he has to ask person to touch me. And I frequently say no.

This makes me consider what NON sexual D/s does for me. I will say that powerplay or painplay that isn't really sexual in terms of connecting with the other person creates an erotic rush. Maybe other partners benefit from it, maybe I just get off later on my own, maybe I just hold it in and walk around turned on for a bit, but it doesn't create a need to be sexual *with* the object of my D/s or SM. And sometimes it's just service and it's just really satisfying to wield power 'cause you can.

 

[Ebonyfire]

This makes me consider what NON sexual D/s does for me. I will say that powerplay or painplay that isn't really sexual in terms of connecting with the other person creates an erotic rush. Maybe other partners benefit from it, maybe I just get off later on my own, maybe I just hold it in and walk around turned on for a bit, but it doesn't create a need to be sexual *with* the object of my D/s or SM. And sometimes it's just service and it's just really satisfying to wield power 'cause you can.

Yes. I like what you posted here because it really clarified what I was trying to say.

In my case whether someting I do to a submissive becomes sexual or not depends on who the submissive is or where he is in the pecking order and what my goal is with said submissive. Like you said sometimes it's just really enough to weild the power!

 

[Netzach]

I don't think I would ever want to Top because I would be afraid that I would enjoy inflicting pain too much.

This always kind of piques my interest. I see this statement a lot and I wonder what it's about. I was definitely concerned about going too far at first, and slightly disturbed by some of the things I wanted to do to people and what would make me want to do them, but hell if I wasn't going to get my feet wet and do something. Is it because you question the goodness of your motivation or because you're afraid of upsetting your status quo?

 

[Netzach]

Yes. I like what you posted here because it really clarified what I was trying to say.

In my case whether someting I do to a submissive becomes sexual or not depends on who the submissive is or where he is in the pecking order and what my goal is with said submissive. Like you said sometimes it's just really enough to weild the power!

Totally.

And then you get into heavy absurdities, like the fact that it turns me and H on to NO end when I point out that he's out of his mind if he thinks I'd ever fuck him. We both want to screw a hole in the wall at that point, which is frankly harder to achieve than simply getting laid. Getting laid is easy, I've learned, getting so turned on you could scream is one of life's purest luxuries.

 

[Ebonyfire]

One of the reasons I do not consider myself a Top is because I do not dominate on demand. I passed up a couple of submissives because they wanted pain inflicted on them on a regular basis. I personally do not enjoy beating someone just for the sake of beating them. For me to be interested in inflicting pain, it has to be used in conjunction with some kind of service. My purpose is not to serve a submissive's kink, but to control his kink to our mutual advantage within the guidelines of an adult relationship.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Totally.

And then you get into heavy absurdities, like the fact that it turns me and H on to NO end when I point out that he's out of his mind if he thinks I'd ever fuck him. We both want to screw a hole in the wall at that point, which is frankly harder to achieve than simply getting laid. Getting laid is easy, I've learned, getting so turned on you could scream is one of life's purest luxuries.

Yes indeed!

 

[pandoravampire]

ok, im a beginner when it comes to topping, so ill enjoy coming back in 5 yrs, and taking the piss out of myself for what i 'thought' today.

my pleasure is to give someone a good time. Me included. I like to watch and read a person, to respond and sway the situation, so that joe bloggs is in a wobbling wreck of sensation, emotion, experience. And THAT feeling, that I did that. is the hottest! I get off on seeing someone in that state. Beautiful, naked to the soul. And they are there because of what we did, what i did.
But i can get this feeling outside of a sexual encounter. It could be just a converstation over dinner, where i feel control and power. Its all good.

then there is the sensation and art of bondage. The marks it creates. And im wanting to play with a new form of bondage for me, where shoe lace sized bindings are used to create patterns upon the skin on removal. Rather than the restraint. which to be honest. can be achieved quicker by cuffs. Though taking your time to tie someone up with rope sliding across naked flesh is just delish.

Then there is the power play aspect. I like control. I like playing, flirting, on power exchanges. Ensnaring someone. temporarily. For our mutual benefit. Be that for a evening or a week, or years.

In the sadistic side of me, inflicting pain on someone is awesome! its like lightening running through my veins and very intense. I have yet to indulge that side, but very ready to explore, slowly. It is a scary thought, and sadism is something i have acknowledged in myself, but as yet, put aside until i feel more comfotable with its acceptance and a whole heap more skill on the physical side of things. So although i have accepted sensation play into my world, im aware that i feel a need to take it futher, but have not been in a situation where i could.

The sexual side is there, but its not necessary for me to get my rocks off. Same as i can orgasm repeatedly without a bdsm note in sight. neither are entirely exclusive or inclusive of the other.

pandoravampire

 

[ChainedRebel]

I'll add my own jumbled thoughts to the good clear headed thoughts already posted...

I think it also depends (as I always seem to say when discussing D/s) on the individuals and the relationship between them. I also think there is a distinction between enjoying the infliction of pain and the submission of the partner.

I indentify as a switch primarily because my natural tendency with others in most any setting is to take control. Not always overtly dominate the enviornment, but to at least and to the best of my ability, control it. You can be very low profile and still control a situation. In otherwords, I don't have a need to barge in and take over or am a loud mouth or any of that. I enjoy the subtlities of enviornmental and people control. That said, I am my wife's submissive, albeit a fiesty one , and in truth, at my core, my tendancies, even are really more submissive in nature.

But I can most certainly top and enjoy doing so with the right subjects. I have an instant and instinctive need to top men. With women, it depends on who they are and how I react to them. Something inside of me, and no not anger, but perhaps more distrust, makes me feel a need to control men, sexually or otherwise. I'm much more relaxed and less "definsive" with women.

We had a girlfriend and she and I both submitted to my wife. But I topped her often and in more than a sexual, or "BDSM" type of way. Which I think is leading me to the point I was trying to make.

I would advise her on life choices, personal conflicts, etc. I would require her to take time and eat a good meal at dinner time, insist she went to bed early before a work meeting, that kind of thing. An endevour to better her daily life with a goal of making her a better person. No I don't mean that to sound arrogant like I know better, it always done with greatest contemplation and consideration. She was more or less a wreck and needed guidance and direction. I enjoyed it, even though I often I found it tasking. But I believe in a D/s relationship involving love, that is a key factor; helping the other person to become a "better" person. I put better in quotes because I use the term VERY loosely. When my wife is totally stressed out and full of anxiety and anger and pisses in my mouth, she becomes a "better" person.

When our former g/f (haven't had another since) or a male submits to me, that is what I enjoy. Their submission. For me, inflicting pain is a tool not the goal. I don't derive pleasure simply from inflicting pain. I derive pleasure from seeing how the pain transforms and works on my partner. I could, and do, derive just as much pleasure from bondage or humiliation or what have you. It is seeing what it is doing to/for them that gets me.

And when you think about it, I guess that all goes back to my true submissive nature. While I may appear to be the full on top in a scene, I'm all the while doing what I am doing with the motivation of pleasing or helping or whatever my partner. Even if I'm being a complete hardass and doling out punishment, it is always in the hopes that the sub will understand therefore learn and realize and in the end be pleased.

I don't know if any of that makes ANY sense, but there ya have it.

I reckon I just see things as a bit more complex.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

So just first I have to say that Netzach and Ebonyfire can make me wonder if I'm really a Dom / sadist, but that's probably a topic for another thread. (But you two do prove that Domme's can be scary...)
The trip for me is when you've learned enough about the sub and gotten to know them well enough that when you're doing something with / to them and you know, just absolutely know, that you've 'earned' the right to enjoy them in that way and at that moment. Knowing that is what I enjoy -- and yes, that is where the sexual arousal comes into this for me. If I've gotten someone to give me that much of their mind so far that I'm 'sure' of that then you can bet the body will respond -- that's a guy thing, huh?

 

[Netzach]

So just first I have to say that Netzach and Ebonyfire can make me wonder if I'm really a Dom / sadist, but that's probably a topic for another thread. (But you two do prove that Domme's can be scary...)
The trip for me is when you've learned enough about the sub and gotten to know them well enough that when you're doing something with / to them and you know, just absolutely know, that you've 'earned' the right to enjoy them in that way and at that moment. Knowing that is what I enjoy -- and yes, that is where the sexual arousal comes into this for me. If I've gotten someone to give me that much of their mind so far that I'm 'sure' of that then you can bet the body will respond -- that's a guy thing, huh?

It is. This is why the only guys I've ever really gotten along with as a bottom have had a large dose of "Girl Brain" and a kind of cool, restrained, Bitch energy on the Top. I can't fathom having sex with my top without *me* doing the earning. I guess I have a heavy dose of "boy brain" on the bottom.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

It is. This is why the only guys I've ever really gotten along with as a bottom have had a large dose of "Girl Brain" and a kind of cool, restrained, Bitch energy on the Top. I can't fathom having sex with my top without *me* doing the earning. I guess I have a heavy dose of "boy brain" on the bottom.

Girl / Boy brain I'm not so sure of. PYL/pyl I guess I get, but from what I've seen you write it is about the mental control first. Yes, I like sex, but I need control. You just seem to have much more ability to walk away and leave them frustrated and you satisfied than I can imagine.

 

[the_pet]

.... thanks sooooo much for everyone's responses! They really helped. Your replies meant alot to me. I struggle sometime....


pet

 

[ecstaticsub]

This always kind of piques my interest. I see this statement a lot and I wonder what it's about. I was definitely concerned about going too far at first, and slightly disturbed by some of the things I wanted to do to people and what would make me want to do them, but hell if I wasn't going to get my feet wet and do something. Is it because you question the goodness of your motivation or because you're afraid of upsetting your status quo?

I am afraid that inflicting pain, humiliation even emotional pain would be too fun for me. I am ashamed to admit it but I know there is this part of me that is very sadistic, dangerously sadistic. If I allow this part of me out I am afraid this "dark side" will over power every part of me. This sounds overly dramatic doesn't it? Hmmm, now that I am thinking about this I will admit that I really love watching BDSM porn esp the spanking and almost torture type of porn. I think I associate myself more with the Top than the bottom but I could not let myself do that. Maybe part of my enjoyment of being a submissive is participating in this kind of activity without having to worry about hurting someone.

You have got me thinking....

 

[BiBunny]

I am afraid that inflicting pain, humiliation even emotional pain would be too fun for me. I am ashamed to admit it but I know there is this part of me that is very sadistic, dangerously sadistic. If I allow this part of me out I am afraid this "dark side" will over power every part of me. This sounds overly dramatic doesn't it? Hmmm, now that I am thinking about this I will admit that I really love watching BDSM porn esp the spanking and almost torture type of porn. I think I associate myself more with the Top than the bottom but I could not let myself do that. Maybe part of my enjoyment of being a submissive is participating in this kind of activity without having to worry about hurting someone.

You have got me thinking....

I used to be that way. I'm normally a quiet, unassuming person, but before I embraced--for lack of a better word--this dark part of me, I was one of those people who'd fly off the handle when the straw finally broke the camel's back. Now, I've sort of learned how to harness guide that energy, and I can release it in a more healthy way with a willing "victim." Not to say I don't still lose my mind once or twice a year, but it's really helped with that pent-up rage that a lot quiet, non-confrontational people have. Er, did that even make sense?

 

[ecstaticsub]

I used to be that way. I'm normally a quiet, unassuming person, but before I embraced--for lack of a better word--this dark part of me, I was one of those people who'd fly off the handle when the straw finally broke the camel's back. Now, I've sort of learned how to harness guide that energy, and I can release it in a more healthy way with a willing "victim." Not to say I don't still lose my mind once or twice a year, but it's really helped with that pent-up rage that a lot quiet, non-confrontational people have. Er, did that even make sense?

Interesting..I don't have pent up range. (not much at least) I just get some sort of weird thrill from seeing people being punished. I used to live in Germany and there was a medieval torture museum in the city of Rothenburg. I loved it! I was so intriqued and fascinated by the display items. Those kind of feelings seem wrong and dangerous to me. I rather someone else be the responsible party for inflicting pain and I want to be there to watch. I haven't watched any play in person so I'm not sure if watching would be better then actually experiencing the pain but I am very curious about it.

 

[ChainedRebel]

I am afraid that inflicting pain, humiliation even emotional pain would be too fun for me. I am ashamed to admit it but I know there is this part of me that is very sadistic, dangerously sadistic. If I allow this part of me out I am afraid this "dark side" will over power every part of me. This sounds overly dramatic doesn't it? Hmmm, now that I am thinking about this I will admit that I really love watching BDSM porn esp the spanking and almost torture type of porn. I think I associate myself more with the Top than the bottom but I could not let myself do that. Maybe part of my enjoyment of being a submissive is participating in this kind of activity without having to worry about hurting someone.

You have got me thinking....

So my question is, why are you afraid?