Trying to find meaning in outlier votes

[Lydra]

EDIT: question answered, thanks for everybody's input. Removing text here as I'm receiving less constructive feedback in messages.

 

[NotWise]

Have other writers found that these are legitimate data points? Are they simply disgruntled trolls of the internet? Am I searching for meaning where none exists? It's a little rough to feel emotionally invested in writing something that somebody clearly passionately disliked, but to have no idea why they did or what to do to avoid that reaction in the future.

I think everyone gets those outliers, and it's hard to say why other than that opinions differ. Some are invalid. Others may be valid. It's important to keep in mind that a rating system like Lit's is a popularity rating, not a formulated opinion about the quality of your story or your writing.

The site has a process called "sweeps" that remove votes that meet some unknown criteria for being invalid. The sweeps remove at least some of the outliers, but they can also remove some of your 5* votes, as well. They are done for contests and at intervals as needed.

 

[yukonnights]

I'm fairly new to the world of writing and am trying to make sense out of some of the voting on my stories. The vast majority of feedback and ratings have been very positive, which is very heartening and gratifying to me. I'm trying to get better at writing, and it seems people here are interested in providing helpful feedback.

What I'm trying to make sense out of are the low ratings with seemingly no explanation. Below are two examples:

- 73x 5 stars, 5x 4 stars, 1x 2 stars.
- 31x 5 stars, 2x 4 stars, 1x 1 star.

I'm not trying to brag or complain at all, I'm looking for guidance from others for what to make of the outliers. I wish they would have left a comment, even just a sentence or two, about what offended them.

Have other writers found that these are legitimate data points? Are they simply disgruntled trolls of the internet? Am I searching for meaning where none exists? It's a little rough to feel emotionally invested in writing something that somebody clearly passionately disliked, but to have no idea why they did or what to do to avoid that reaction in the future.

Another thing to consider is the total number of views. What that should do is show you the large number of people who at least started your story. With that number in mind, it is easier to accept that in so many people there is bound to be a few who found some very weird thing they didn't like. That could be anything from the way a character spoke to the kind of shoes she was wearing. The best thing is to accept that you can't please everyone. That's why the average rating is useful. I would say with the examples you gave, your doing a great job with your efforts. If you were doing something wrong in a major way, the average rating would generally reflect that. It's a rough, imprecise, tool but should be enough to give you the info you need. I'd ignore the few low votes as a function of doing business on the internet. (plus, there are some who are just being mean in their own way.)

 

[CuteSlaveLisa]

Just My Opinion / Experience, never had a sweep do anything but eliminate 'ones.'

Really what is a vote supposed to signify. There are authors here that I KNOW I am not the equal of. Is it technical skill? Is it topic? As many answers to that as voters.

Two thirds of the categories here have no interest to me. I don't go there don't vote don't comment. If you love "my little pony all grown up" that's ok, just not my Columbian (cup of joe).

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

 

[SimonDoom]

There's a great deal of "noise" in reader reaction to stories. Some people react very negatively to a story because of something a character did or a turn of the plot they didn't like or expect. Some people go overboard when they are negative and give 1s. You can't read too much into it. All of us get these from time to time. I've gotten plenty of 1s and didn't think I deserved any of them.

You definitely do not want to overthink this.

 

[gordo12]

What I'm trying to make sense out of are the low ratings with seemingly no explanation. Below are two examples:

- 73x 5 stars, 5x 4 stars, 1x 2 stars.
- 31x 5 stars, 2x 4 stars, 1x 1 star.

I'm not trying to brag or complain at all, I'm looking for guidance from others for what to make of the outliers.

I'm not quite sure how you managed to come up with those numbers the site doesn't break them down like that. You'd have to hover over the stats to get that info. I see you're writing in BDSM. There are only a few categories that would get that kind of action.

So seriously you're worried about two votes out of 106. Put a story in Loving Wives and watch the "we hate you" factor head up to 20-50% or more.

Most authors would be over the moon with those kind of votes. The information to be gained from those outliers is virtually every reader LOVED your story.

Methinks you worry too much!

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I’ve had sweeps remove 5s. I noticed a major uptick on one story recently before both scores and voter numbers dropped. An over-enthusiastic fan or something? It does happen, but normally it’s the 1s and 2s dropped by trolls that get swept away. The latter, poor dears, seem to be unable to find better purpose in life than trying to hurt and offend. You learn to live with it.

Oh, and I have to agree with Gordo12. Such scores are to be treasured, even with the token ‘offerings’ coughed up by the troll cats.

 

[KeithD]

There are too many variables in a vast collection of stories here and the readers too varied, with some them just being malicious without regard to the content of the stories, for you to make too much out of the voting at all. This isn't a critique site and most readers aren't knowledgeable enough about writing to give you a reliable gauge of your writing.

 

[NotWise]

I’ve had sweeps remove 5s.

I've had quite a few 5* votes removed. It's impossible to tell with stories that get a lot of votes, because you can't figure out the voting much past 100 votes and usually the sweeps happen later than that. It's easy to see in slow categories and later chapters of long stories.

In those cases I can track, it's fairly common for half or more of all the votes removed to be 5* votes. My overall winner that way is Oscar's Place, which had a total of six votes swept. Five of those were 5* votes and one was a 4* vote.

Why do the sweeps take 5* votes? I don't know. I suppose not all 5* votes are valid, just as not all 1* votes are invalid.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

1's are troll votes, they never leave a comment. There are usually two reasons you will get them.

1. You story is besting one of their favorite authors in the best of story list

2. you wrote something they disliked so they 1 vote all you other stories

There is a third, but that only applies if you turn off voting on some of your stories.

 

[rescatooor]

Ok let's complicate to numbers even further.

As was mentioned above, some people click on your story. That shows up as views. Is your view to vote constant 1:1? I seriously doubt it, but don't feel sorry about it, most people just realized that your story wasn't the length/category/type they're currently in mood of or they've returned on the page several times to finish the story. All good.

Ok then we got the people who actually finished your story. How many voted? Well, those who hated it, those who loved it, those who felt they could give a fair or unfair assessment. Those who knew they could even vote. Fair number of Literotica users are Anon and not everyone has necessarily ever even realized they could vote at the end of the story without an account. I've had to explain this to few of my friends as well.

Even I don't vote on all the stories I need, just because I don't feel it was written for me.

Then there's the question of what the votes even mean the voters. If it was for literotica standards anything above 3 is pretty decent yet anything under 3,5 is kind of rare. Notably some people even take into consideration the current average. That means they might be more merciful to a story that has been roughly treated or more harsh on a story that has received too much praise to their opinion. Also many authors here in the forums have spoken against ever giving ones or two star ratings (they just never finish them). For me it's usually only a question of 4 and 5. Rarely I give a story I finish a three. I don't finish that many, even if I do kind of like them. Blame it on time.

So then we get to commenting. Way harder to come by than votes because not always do you find a polite way to say it. Sometimes it's not a fault of yours, maybe it's just "I got put off by women being on top." And that's not something everyone is ready to admit.

And, last but not least, are the trolls. They just hate you because it's fun. It's nothing personal, half the time.

But yeah. As you can see there are quite a few variables there. Think not too much of it. It's usually the best ones that get the least praise.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Some reasons for outlier downvotes:

- voter is a jerk who just enjoys griefing authors (all authors, or certain categories of authors, or maybe you in particular for some petty reason) - this includes people who hate-read categories like LW or NC and then downvote people for posting what the category is supposed to have
- voter is trying to boost somebody else's story in the same category/contest/etc.
- voter is voting according to the guidelines listed on the stars (where 2 is "I didn't like it much" and 3 is "Liked it - keep on writing") and not by the usual voting standard (where 5 is "loved it", 4 is "pretty good", and anything else is "bad").
- voter clicked on the wrong star (I got an apologetic comment from one such reader)
- author included something that's a turn-off for that one reader
- voter thinks story was stolen from somebody else
- etc. etc.

The "voter is a jerk" explanation is probably the most common, but the others have all been known to happen.

 

[Bramblethorn]

addendum:

- 73x 5 stars, 5x 4 stars, 1x 2 stars.
- 31x 5 stars, 2x 4 stars, 1x 1 star.

...

It's a little rough to feel emotionally invested in writing something that somebody clearly passionately disliked, but to have no idea why they did or what to do to avoid that reaction in the future.

Maybe remind yourself of the thirty-to-seventy people who voted 5* and don't get too hung up on one solitary person who disliked it and can't be bothered saying why.

 

[Lydra]

Thanks for all the input everybody.

Like I said, I'm not too hung up on the scores as numbers as such, more about the motivation behind them. I've heard from a fair number of the 5 star voters about what they liked, as well as some of the 4 star voters about what they felt was lacking. What hangs me up about the lower voters is the "why". It's hard to learn lessons to improve myself without knowing the "why".

Reading your input, it seems it's pretty common, which makes me think it is more mean spirited than legitimate feedback. Thanks for letting me know!

 

[GroverLang]

I'm fairly new to the world of writing and am trying to make sense out of some of the voting on my stories. The vast majority of feedback and ratings have been very positive, which is very heartening and gratifying to me. I'm trying to get better at writing, and it seems people here are interested in providing helpful feedback.

What I'm trying to make sense out of are the low ratings with seemingly no explanation. Below are two examples:

- 73x 5 stars, 5x 4 stars, 1x 2 stars.
- 31x 5 stars, 2x 4 stars, 1x 1 star.

I'm not trying to brag or complain at all, I'm looking for guidance from others for what to make of the outliers. I wish they would have left a comment, even just a sentence or two, about what offended them.

Have other writers found that these are legitimate data points? Are they simply disgruntled trolls of the internet? Am I searching for meaning where none exists? It's a little rough to feel emotionally invested in writing something that somebody clearly passionately disliked, but to have no idea why they did or what to do to avoid that reaction in the future.

I haven’t read your stories because that’s not the kind of story I’m into but I’ve looked and see that you have three stories with respective ratings of 4.84, 4.86 and 4.75. I would go so far as to say they are exceptional ratings for a new writer’s first three stories.

With all due respect - what the hell are you complaining about?

 

[GroverLang]

Perhaps the answer is for an algorithm that doesn’t recognise 1* and 2* votes and so makes it a waste of time for the trolls. They might still vote a 3* but that’s nowhere near as damaging for ratings or as discouraging for someone who has put their heart and soul into producing something decent, perhaps not outstanding, and which may turn them away from this site not only as a writer but as a reader.

 

[Lydra]

I haven’t read your stories because that’s not the kind of story I’m into but I’ve looked and see that you have three stories with respective ratings of 4.84, 4.86 and 4.75. I would go so far as to say they are exceptional ratings for a new writer’s first three stories.

With all due respect - what the hell are you complaining about?

As I said both in the original post and in my response half an hour ago, I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand why these votes are coming in, either to understand them as legitimate feedback or as less constructive internet noise.

 

[rescatooor]

As I said both in the original post and in my response half an hour ago, I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand why these votes are coming in, either to understand them as legitimate feedback or as less constructive internet noise.

Everything is relative. Say, a reader ends up reading the creme de la creme of Literotica, never venturing under the 4 watermark, they miss out on some excellent stories but they also have some fairly basic expectations as to what a great story in their opinion is like. So if they read only "hot" stories from the top list, they will have "higher" standards or expectations. Something like presentation, grammar, style and checklists get all the more important. So they might be stingier with their five stars than your regular reader who stumbles on to your story after having read a bit of this and that from various categories.

It all depends on the metre your using. If you want to keep your sanity, use the right metre.

 

[GroverLang]

As I said both in the original post and in my response half an hour ago, I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand why these votes are coming in, either to understand them as legitimate feedback or as less constructive internet noise.

Why do these votes appear? Because in every area of society there are morons. They probably also scratch down the side of a car. Why? Because they can.

I think much of the time it must be jealousy because they can’t write a good story.

 

[Hypoxia]

Sweating the votes becomes a neurosis. Let it go.

 

[Lydra]

Sweating the votes becomes a neurosis. Let it go.

Truth.

 

[NotWise]

Truth.

Sweating the votes and trying to understand the votes are not the same thing. Unfortunately, there's hardly a thing you can do to understand the 1-bombers, and recently 2-bombers have been all the rage.

 

[Lydra]

Sweating the votes and trying to understand the votes are not the same thing. Unfortunately, there's hardly a thing you can do to understand the 1-bombers, and recently 2-bombers have been all the rage.

I think I got hit by one of those shortly after I posted this thread. I guess drawing attention to oneself is dangerous.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think I got hit by one of those shortly after I posted this thread. I guess drawing attention to oneself is dangerous.

You painted a target on your back, I'm afraid.

Ignore your numbers for a month is my advice; by that time the fucktards have had their fun, got bored, moved on. Your stories will, over time, settle down and reflect their true status.

Writing and submitting your next piece will do more for your back catalogue than trying to understand what's going on down in the basements. In any system involving human beings (and Lit is a big system with unique dynamics), noise is noise. After a while, it fades into the background, and you respond to it differently. Three newbie stories above 4.80, btw, is "doing fine," by any measure. Most writers can only aspire to that - you're doing something right .

 

[NotWise]

I think I got hit by one of those shortly after I posted this thread. I guess drawing attention to oneself is dangerous.

It isn't good for your ratings. I was advised early on (which really wasn't that long ago) that I shouldn't talk about high scores. It's an invitation to have them lowered -- you know, just as a free service to you.