Trust: Where does it begin, where does it end?

[catalina_francisco]

In entering the variety of relationships we do, there is often the issue of trust to come to terms with. Where do we decide to begin to trust? What are the parameters of that trust….is it partial, full, conditional? Where do we stop testing the waters with a big toe first, and decide to obey without hesitation? And when that trust is seemingly tested, does it have long-term effects (positive or negative) even if we find later there was no reason for concern? Is it a sign we faltered in our trust, or is our Dominant responsible? What issues of trust do Dominants find themselves experiencing? Perhaps it would be interesting and positive to discuss, exchange ideas, experiences, and POV on this often tenuous and risk-taking element of a D/s relationship.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

bump..

 

[angela146]

OK, I'll take a shot at it.

Caveat: I'm a switch and am not full time D/s. Your mileage may vary.

In our case we have two D/s relationships, HIM/me and ME/him. I'll focus on HIM/me for simplicity.

For us, it was a very slow process (3+ years) to go from "OK, I guess I'll try that but I'm not sure" to "Dear, I'll do almost anything you ask of me."

Trust is required to be built on both sides. He needs to trust that I will accept more domination and pain at each step and that I'm not just saying it.

At first, it was very difficult for him to take the risk of my saying "Well I didn't mean *that*!" Now it is much easier because we know each other very well.

On my end, it was a little easier. His cautiousness and my prior experience of extreme domination from my parents made it possible for me to encourage him because I knew he would be unlikely to push my limits. Eventually, he went farther than my parents had and saw that I accepted it. That was a huge milestone for us.

(BTW: I just submitted the story of how that happened. Keep an eye out for "Michelle's Hairbrush").

We're still pushing the limits and building more trust in each other.

I don't think we had a "dip the toe" versus "jump in head first" mindset. We took a series of steps, like walking down a staircase into the pool.

We also have not quite yet reached the level of abandoning our safe-phrases, so I don't think we have achieved full domination.

As for testing the trust, we test it every time we push ourselves to another level. We have not yet failed the test. There have been times when I've said (the next day) that it was too much. But there has never been a time when I felt that he had crossed the line.

I used to use my safephrase occasionally but have not in several years.

There are lines that we will likely never cross (permanent damage for example) but those are well understood.

If anything, I think our problem is finding ways of reaching the edge of trust: finding ways that he can push me that will make me afraid that he is about to go over the line.

Our current "tests of trust" are in the area of abandoning our safe phrases. We have made it increasingly difficult (emotionally) for me to "safeword". We may soon be ready to have times where there is no safephrase.

We've been together for ten years and have been married for 8 of those years. The development of our D/s relationships has been a continuous process throughout that time.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Trust is required to be built on both sides. He needs to trust that I will accept more domination and pain at each step and that I'm not just saying it.

I think this is a very important point that is sometimes forgotten in the rush of excitement and needs screaming to be fulfilled. It seems quite often the submissive can be tempted to go further than is wise, and then becomes a task for the Dominant to know the reality. I think too, it can become an issue which can undermine the trust of both submissive and Dominant for different reasons.

(BTW: I just submitted the story of how that happened. Keep an eye out for "Michelle's Hairbrush").

Hope you have put it in the Shamelss Plug thread!!

We took a series of steps, like walking down a staircase into the pool.

I love this analogy. And when the water is not just right, a pause can work wonders to continue the descent.

As for testing the trust, we test it every time we push ourselves to another level. We have not yet failed the test.

The buzz of passing from one level to the next is worth the patience and planning, the challenging of comfort zones when right.

There have been times when I've said (the next day) that it was too much. But there has never been a time when I felt that he had crossed the line.

Communication is vital, and a good way to get to know your partner even better and achieve a deeper intimacy which continues to evolve and grow.

If anything, I think our problem is finding ways of reaching the edge of trust: finding ways that he can push me that will make me afraid that he is about to go over the line.

This seems to become more difficult as trust grows, and also more dangerous as a way of unintentionally dismantling all those building blocks so carefully stacked and balanced.

We've been together for ten years and have been married for 8 of those years. The development of our D/s relationships has been a continuous process throughout that time.

Sounds like you have a great relationship which can endure the test of time. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Catalina

 

[Bandit58]

Ours is a love relationship as well as D/s. I am naturally sexually submissive but not very experienced and shyness is for me something to be overcome. I trust that He knows the best ways to do this even though I have hesitated a couple of times and gotten a sharp smack on the butt!

But He also has to have trust in me.....that I will use my safewords if I truly do feel overwhelmed and afraid, that I am open and honest at all times both during and after a scene, and that I do try my best to do as He wants and if I do fail that I don't beat myself up about it afterward.......

 

[trodas]

Trust is something that have to be earned, developed trough time and tested well
As catalina_francisco says, it can take eight years for some couples - however everyone is different, so the process can eb shorter or longer - it depends how these two are "click" to each and what's their past experiences.
I must say for myself that the trust it me, as dominant person, from my girl makes me feel better but also i feel that i have to stand up to it and not failed it.

 

[angela146]

Originally posted by catalina_francisco
>(BTW: I just submitted the story of how that happened. Keep an eye out for "Michelle's Hairbrush").

*Hope you have put it in the Shamelss Plug thread!!

I ordered some shame a while back. They tell me it's on backorder.

(Notice how we have yet another post that mentions "Michelle's Hairbrush", coming soon to Literotica).

 

[paperdolly]

I touched on the topic of trust in the punching/kicking thread, but later edited it because I felt my reply wasn't exactly appropriate. In my personal relationship there are no safewords and there never were. Going into it I was prepared to offer my complete and total surrender, and I accepted those terms because I was prepared to be led on a journey. However, I didn’t truly let go until I was on the floor being kicked. I knew then that I could give in, that I could trust him to guide me. In that single action his adeptness and skill won me over, insane chemistry aside.

 

[lassarina]

Trust is the backbone of my submission to him. It started with a simple "hello" at a local munch and has been evolving ever since. i still have my hard limits but he's slowly whittled away the list of soft limits (pun intended! until there are very few left. i trust him to challenge me to grow beyond what i am now. When i placed myself into his care, i left behind a sense of "what's going to happen next?" and moved into "your will, Sir". Without trust i wouldn't consider submitting to him. He does keep me guessing however..."will this be the time that he pushes too far too fast? " Our trust in each other continues to grow and deepen every day. Just my rambling thoughts.......

 

[slaveskinky]

Re: Trust

for myself as a slave, trusting Biker concerning Pain was never a problem. my Limits were emotional i had no knowledge of the (lifestyle) before meeting Biker six years ago.

Biker had one rule, His way or no way., so when learning i should expect a Poly house in the future a which meant i would be expected to play with females as well,and have to share Him in am emotional way, these were my (hard) limits to trust Him in. This is a broad subject to try and share just how hard learning to trust Him was in a few short sentences.

i have written just how hard the Journey was in a story called.. A slave's Journey. Part of it has been posted with much more to follow. This is a subject that is very close to my heart and thinking.

slave

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

In entering the variety of relationships we do, there is often the issue of trust to come to terms with. Where do we decide to begin to trust? What are the parameters of that trust….is it partial, full, conditional? Where do we stop testing the waters with a big toe first, and decide to obey without hesitation? And when that trust is seemingly tested, does it have long-term effects (positive or negative) even if we find later there was no reason for concern? Is it a sign we faltered in our trust, or is our Dominant responsible? What issues of trust do Dominants find themselves experiencing? Perhaps it would be interesting and positive to discuss, exchange ideas, experiences, and POV on this often tenuous and risk-taking element of a D/s relationship.

Catalina

I will endeavor to answer from two seprate thought processes as I am actively involved with my 2 pets and journeying toward my own active submission with another person(s).

As my pets Owner...trust came from being friends for years. It was built with every step forward we made into the realm of the unknown. Since my grrl was my best friend long before she married (and my grrl for about a year of that) the trust was always in place. My boi (on the other hand) was a gift from her to me. (AS they are now married). His trust issues were different.

AS of yet, the three of us have yet to discover a place where the trust crumbles or breaks down. They trust me...i love and care for them..it is a good trade. WE have been together a total of 3 years (off and on). For me, my only issue with their trust is whether or not I can keep it. Especially since I do alot of mini-managing their lives for them (By their own needs and desires).

Hmmm now...as for me and my own journey toward submission. Trust is hard. Trust is dangerous (at least in my mind) because it allows the person to look inside of you. One has to open themselves UP to introspection and inspection.

The Person(s) I currently involve myself with understand my limitations and my needs. Both of them understand my background and all of the things about me that make trust hard for me. They work with me, they help me. True (for the nonce) I am far away from them so it makes it easier to build a trusting relationship because there is no pressure for sex.

Not only that, but THEY consider themselves my friends, first. That is important to me. After all, if I can not trust a person with my daily struggle, how the hell can I trust them with my body?? MY soul?? My heart???

Trust is not something I give...trust is something that is GAINED. There is a difference.

For the 4 main people in my life (MY She, my prospective playmate He, and my pets) it is a daily learning experience. My pets show me how to trust, my Others show me that they can BE trusted. I will come back and add more to this later..but for now...

I will bid thee adieu
Shelly Pet

 

[Esclava]

Trust is, indeed, something that cannot be given until it is earned. Early in my submissive life, I trusted one unworthy of it and it had a very negative, long-term (more than 10 years) effect on me. He was my dom, but not my master; unfortunately - the damage he did was almost irreversible.

I had to completely re-learn how NOT to hold others responsible for the actions of the unworthy one. Fortunately for me, I serve One online who is not only worthy of the trust I have placed in Him, but He has taught me to trust myself and my decisions in seeking another Dom or even a Master. It took almost six months to earn the trust needed for me to tell Him I loved Him. Recently, He told me that I would find One to replace Him and would have to let Him go.

I don't know how I'll do that...

Esclava

 

[Scarlett_t2]

Without trust no matter what side you fall on I believe there is nothing. The need to trust and have that trust respected is there from birth. Once a trust is broken the damage can take years to heal and affect all other aspects in ones life. I know from my stand point after many trusts being broken in my life I would never want to inflict that pain on anyone.

In the BDSM world how can you have a active and wonderful relationship with someone without trust? The sub trusting in the Dom/Domme to know their limits. The Dom/Domme's trusting their subs to give them limits. I believe our whole world revolves around this one issue...trust. Trust is the whole building block to make a great foundation with what ever you do in life. Without it what is the point?

I don't know if this answered your question, I'm sorry if I rambled, I think trust is such a gift and should be treated with the utmost care and respect....IMHO
Scarlett

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ours is a love relationship as well as D/s. I am naturally sexually submissive but not very experienced and shyness is for me something to be overcome. I trust that He knows the best ways to do this even though I have hesitated a couple of times and gotten a sharp smack on the butt!

But He also has to have trust in me.....that I will use my safewords if I truly do feel overwhelmed and afraid, that I am open and honest at all times both during and after a scene, and that I do try my best to do as He wants and if I do fail that I don't beat myself up about it afterward.......

Somehow I lost this thread while I had other things going on...but I'm back!! Thanks for responding everyone.

I think what you say is true Bandit (and pleased to hear you are both so happy). I think most of us have hesitation moments, even though we may trust the other. Seems a natural response, especially in new ventures, and takes time and patience to overcome. It is difficult to get to a point where you blindly obey while still maintaining a healthy attitude, most especially in those situations which are well out of the expected realm. And yer, that trust has to go both ways and in such tenuous situations, relied on heavily by the Dominant.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Trust is something that have to be earned, developed trough time and tested well
As catalina_francisco says, it can take eight years for some couples - however everyone is different, so the process can eb shorter or longer - it depends how these two are "click" to each and what's their past experiences.
I must say for myself that the trust it me, as dominant person, from my girl makes me feel better but also i feel that i have to stand up to it and not failed it.

I agree time is another factor of importance where trust is concerned. I also think often it may be undermined by emotions, moods, outside influences to the stress levels, so what normally would not be questioned by either submissive or Dominant, may become an issue of hesitation or discomfort on specific occasions.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I touched on the topic of trust in the punching/kicking thread, but later edited it because I felt my reply wasn't exactly appropriate. In my personal relationship there are no safewords and there never were. Going into it I was prepared to offer my complete and total surrender, and I accepted those terms because I was prepared to be led on a journey. However, I didn’t truly let go until I was on the floor being kicked. I knew then that I could give in, that I could trust him to guide me. In that single action his adeptness and skill won me over, insane chemistry aside.

I can relate to the no safewords thing, and the recognition of when it changes even though it was previously thought to be a total surrender. For me there have been 2 occassions where I have felt a giving away of more than I previously had even though my belief and intention to that point was otherwise. I am not 100% sure there won't be more such moments as time and experiences add to the mix to reveal areas where I haven't had the opportunity to truely test my surrender before. Is an interesting journey.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Trust is the backbone of my submission to him. It started with a simple "hello" at a local munch and has been evolving ever since. i still have my hard limits but he's slowly whittled away the list of soft limits (pun intended! until there are very few left. i trust him to challenge me to grow beyond what i am now. When i placed myself into his care, i left behind a sense of "what's going to happen next?" and moved into "your will, Sir". Without trust i wouldn't consider submitting to him. He does keep me guessing however..."will this be the time that he pushes too far too fast? " Our trust in each other continues to grow and deepen every day. Just my rambling thoughts.......

Challenging the comfort zones is so important IMHO. It is easy to say you trust completely, but to test it by working through those previous limits and fears not only makes it a reality to be seen, but develops a road map to further and deeper trust. As I have said before, for me it is like peeling off layers, sometimes ones I didn't know existed.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Trust

for myself as a slave, trusting Biker concerning Pain was never a problem. my Limits were emotional i had no knowledge of the (lifestyle) before meeting Biker six years ago.


slave

I so identify with this. For me there is no greater pain than the emotional, and no quicker way to destroy fragile trust. It is so often a carefully trodden path until a place is reached where you know beyond all doubt, there is no need to fear ever again, at least not from your Dominant. It is an irreplaceable feeling for me.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Trust: Where does it begin, where does it end?

Trust is hard. Trust is dangerous (at least in my mind) because it allows the person to look inside of you. One has to open themselves UP to introspection and inspection.

Trust is not something I give...trust is something that is GAINED. There is a difference.

Shelly Pet

Thanks for this Pet. It is true, trust can be dangerous and is perhaps the most intimate thing one can do. It allows the vulnerablities to be exposed, and holds such power to destroy if misplaced. Is never an easy road to travel in either direction, and can change so many things, both good and bad.


Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Trust is, indeed, something that cannot be given until it is earned. Early in my submissive life, I trusted one unworthy of it and it had a very negative, long-term (more than 10 years) effect on me. He was my dom, but not my master; unfortunately - the damage he did was almost irreversible.

I had to completely re-learn how NOT to hold others responsible for the actions of the unworthy one. Fortunately for me, I serve One online who is not only worthy of the trust I have placed in Him, but He has taught me to trust myself and my decisions in seeking another Dom or even a Master. It took almost six months to earn the trust needed for me to tell Him I loved Him. Recently, He told me that I would find One to replace Him and would have to let Him go.

I don't know how I'll do that...

Esclava

Isn't it sad that the negative actions of one can destroy a lifetime of positive actions from others? But it is true....misplaced trust has the power to gut us in a way nothing else can, and sometimes it takes a long time to repair the damage, if ever. I wish you well in your progress with one who will treasure it.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

In the BDSM world how can you have a active and wonderful relationship with someone without trust? The sub trusting in the Dom/Domme to know their limits. The Dom/Domme's trusting their subs to give them limits. I believe our whole world revolves around this one issue...trust. Trust is the whole building block to make a great foundation with what ever you do in life. Without it what is the point?

Scarlett

I think in part this is why I could never envision giving myself fully as a submissive to anyone if I didn't believe it was forever, and based on deep trust. I didn't want to risk that in a casual way, become jaded from the subsequent change of partners for whatever reason, carry a bundle of issues from each relationship to the next. I know it sounds idealistic, but I had been through enough of that in the vanilla world. I believed for me the D/s relationship was based on more trust than that which could be given easily and freely, and knew it would take someone special to make me feel I could have this for real. I consider myself blessed I found that special someone who won my trust like no-one else ever had in my life.

Catalina

 

[Scarlett_t2]

I never thought I would trust someone like that. To me that is the greatest thing I can give someone. My heart cries not to trust anyone but then my mind comes into play. From time to time it is a struggle but one that is worth wild. I am so glad you brought this up it is so important.
S

 

[Esclava]

Important, thought provoking thread, Catalina - thanks!

For me, trust begins to show itself the first time something is promised and followed through on. The analogy I see is like chopping down a fully-grown redwood with a hatchet. If one keeps hacking at it with a hatchet, it will never fall. So, as long as there are more times when promises are kept - than times that they are not (for whatever reason-these are the hatchet chops), trust has a chance to build into something more solid all the time.

I crave a relationship as strong as the one I've glimpsed in yours, Catalina and I prepare myself to celebrate the day when I shall find it. My online Master has said it will come - and I believe he is right.

Esclava

 

[shyly curious]

to trust, ... to be able to let go of fear and insecurity, ... requires me to be strong in ways that i normally am not. trust is faith, faith in my intentions and faith in another's intentions. to believe that we both want the roughly same thing in roughly the same fashion.

trust is a house i wish to live in, slowly built, by random acts and words. in the early stages the fears shake and wobble the house, doubts creep in, words second guessed, actions questioned. in time walls build, walls that hold the trust as sacred, walls that protect the trust from silly confusion and doubt.

the house where trust flourishes is akin to a church, a place of sanctity, a place to honor and express honor.

trust comes from having my gifts cherished, the gifts that i am and the gifts that i offer. the gifts that they are and the gifts that they offer.

trust requires a common language between the congregation. so that the value of the gifts shared and offered is recognised by all.

trust requires a common currency so that the exchange of gifts has meaning to each. my tokens must have value as must theirs.

trust comes from actions, building the faith in common goals and expectations.

it is easier to have simple trust in one i barely know.

true trust only comes when i open my doors and reveal what i truly am, sharing my dreams, my needs, my limitations.

trust is something i possess within me. i can chose to offer it or not.

whether the other is trustworthy is a totally different question.




i do so hope this made sense.

be well all, shy

 

[Esclava]

...i do so hope this made sense.

be well all, shy

Perfect sense, shy.

Perhaps that is why I feel so solitary. My foundation ability to trust in others has been shaken to its very base level and my doors are closed as they have never been in my life.

Master has the key and has unlatched the lock - now he is working to open the doors that I have closed around me in self-protection.

It was a brave step taken to become part of this Lit community and, even here, my faith that there was acceptance and tolerance here has been tested from the moment I entered the foyer. But I will stay because I have discerned the promises of acceptance AND tolerance in this place. I know they exist. So, I will trust that as I continue to see random acts, which allow me to believe my curency is valued here in the same way I value others who come to exchange theirs, the faith and trust that is budding in me will flourish into something mutually beneficial to all I am allowed to touch.

Esclava