Trump is a total ass clown

[RobDownSouth]

My point is that the strangers are seeing the individual's race, NOT the individual.

And I'm NOT looking for the question "... is are the strangers entire race/gender responsible for that one assholes actions??"

Of course the whole race is not responsible for an individual's actions.

My point is that:

Identity politics and social justice are NOT horrible horrible evils. It sounds like you have a very specific definition of "identity politics" which is that an individual IS responsible for their whole race, which is a false definition.

Identity politics and social justice are notions born out of the fact that some people take advantage of, and marginalize, certain other groups of people. And typically those "others" are of a particular race, or religion.

Social justice works to bring to light these injustices to others. Unless/until people respect and honor all other people, regardless of race, religion, etc, we, as a human race, are doomed to fail as a species on this planet.

Well said.
MonotonyBoy typically attempts to reframe arguments as "if you think SOME, you must think ALL" sorts of nonsense.

Program note: disagree with him more than three times and he'll call you a "racist".

 

[BotanyBoy]

My point is that the strangers are seeing the individual's race, NOT the individual.

Which is on the victim side and totally irrelevant to social justice unless you're using that to justify it.

Of course the whole race is not responsible for an individual's actions.

So then you support individual justice for the perpetrators of individual crimes yes?

Because you can't have it both ways at the same time.

My point is that:

Identity politics and social justice are NOT horrible horrible evils. It sounds like you have a very specific definition of "identity politics" which is that an individual IS responsible for their whole race, which is a false definition.

No, you continue to put it backwards.

Social justice, is that an entire race/gender is responsible for the individuals actions.

If a white guy is being a racist shit, social justice says all white guys must pay for that racist shit's actions.

Social justice works to bring to light these injustices to others.

How exactly?

What injustices exactly???

Because the only thing I've seen it do is create a bullshit boogeyman called the great evil white male patriarchy, oppressing everyone with it's white privilege.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I've read portions of Mein Kampf. It's an incoherent pastiche of a political philosophy, heavy on hate 'n blaming, light on solutions. Not unlike, say, social justice...

FYP

Well said.
MonotonyBoy typically attempts to reframe arguments as "if you think SOME, you must think ALL" sorts of nonsense.

I did no such thing, you just have shitty reading comprehension skills.

Must be a Texan thing.

Program note: disagree with him more than three times and he'll call you a "racist".

Never happened.

I called you a racist because you called me a gook, you racist sack of shit.

 

[TalkToMeInSB]

Wow...

"No, you continue to put it backwards.

Social justice, is that an entire race/gender is responsible for the individuals actions."

No clue where you're getting your definitions from, clearly someone/someplace with an agenda/opinion to which you obviously strictly adhere.

Let's try this definition from Wikipedia:

"Social justice is the fair and just relation between the individual and society. This is measured by the explicit and tacit terms for the distribution of wealth, opportunities for personal activity and social privileges."

For me, social justice movements work to ensure that EVERYONE has equal access to wealth, opportunities and privileges.

You say, "If a white guy is being a racist shit, social justice says all white guys must pay for that racist shit's actions."

That is an incorrect definition of social justice. I'm curious where you're getting these ideas from... They sound very much "on the victim side". I'm guessing you're white and somehow being made to feel this way. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm also white (and male).

It is unfortunate you have somehow been indoctrinated with these ideas as they only serve to widen the gap between yourself and others (especially non-whites).

Which is on the victim side and totally irrelevant to social justice unless you're using that to justify it.



So then you support individual justice for the perpetrators of individual crimes yes?

Because you can't have it both ways at the same time.



No, you continue to put it backwards.

Social justice, is that an entire race/gender is responsible for the individuals actions.

If a white guy is being a racist shit, social justice says all white guys must pay for that racist shit's actions.



How exactly?

What injustices exactly???

Because the only thing I've seen it do is create a bullshit boogeyman called the great evil white male patriarchy, oppressing everyone with it's white privilege.

 

[BotanyBoy]

For me, social justice movements work to ensure that EVERYONE has equal access to wealth, opportunities and privileges.

That's a really good sounding definition.

Too bad equal access to wealth = fuck opportunity, everyone will get their fair, government mandated, share and like it.

You don't get to have free market capitalism (equal opportunity for all) and equal access to wealth (government forced socialism) at the same time. They are totally incompatible with each other in the same space.

You say, "If a white guy is being a racist shit, social justice says all white guys must pay for that racist shit's actions."

That is an incorrect definition of social justice.

That may be the churched up social justice warrior approved definition.

But mine is far more accurate in real world terms.

I'm curious where you're getting these ideas from... They sound very much "on the victim side". I'm guessing you're white and somehow being made to feel this way. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm also white (and male).

I'm Korean.

I'm not on the victim side I'm on the "I'm not a victim" side.

Social Justice says the white man oppresses me with his white male privilege, and I think that is a complete load of bull-fucking-shit.

I don't even think white privilege is real because as an Asian I have MORE white privilege than white people.

It is unfortunate you have somehow been indoctrinated with these ideas

Observation, not indoctrination.

as they only serve to widen the gap between yourself and others (especially non-whites).

No social justice and identity politics does that when they tell me I'm oppressed by evil white males.

There isn't a gap between me and non-whites, because I'm not white.

There is a gap between me and people who think white men are oppressing me with their whiteness. I think they are full of shit and they can't do anything but call me a racist traitor to my own people and other minorities everywhere like the proud social justice warriors they are with all their tolerance for minorities with different views.

 

[TalkToMeInSB]

Cool, you're Korean! That helps me understand you a little better. Years ago, I lived and worked in Seoul for almost a year and have always appreciated the intensity and passion of the Korean people.

I'm seeing other notions that just don't make sense... Like free market capitalism = equal opportunity for all? In the textbooks maybe, but not in real life where capitalism = cronyism and corruption and certainly NOT equal opportunity. Not to mention that free market capitalism only works, in theory, if all the participants have perfect information. Clearly not true in this day of corporate greed and mis-information.

Oh, and Social Justice doesn't "say" anything... I'm sure you realize that you are projecting your own opinions about social justice?

Curious how are you are being oppressed by white men?

I see you throw around the term "white privilege" as a thing. I can't really speak to that because I don't know what you mean. And, since we obviously differ with our definitions, how do you define white privilege?

"But mine is far more accurate in real world terms." With all due respect, but your definition makes no sense "in real world terms". Social justice is NOT about white people and/or their privilege. It is about society not treating ALL people fairly. The poor, the elderly, the disadvantaged.

My sense is you're hung up on "white privilege" and just throwing identity politics and social justice into the same pot. Unfortunately it is not as black and white as that....

That's a really good sounding definition.

Too bad equal access to wealth = fuck opportunity, everyone will get their fair, government mandated, share and like it.

You don't get to have free market capitalism (equal opportunity for all) and equal access to wealth (government forced socialism) at the same time. They are totally incompatible with each other in the same space.



That may be the churched up social justice warrior approved definition.

But mine is far more accurate in real world terms.



I'm Korean.

I'm not on the victim side I'm on the "I'm not a victim" side.

Social Justice says the white man oppresses me with his white male privilege, and I think that is a complete load of bull-fucking-shit.

I don't even think white privilege is real because as an Asian I have MORE white privilege than white people.



Observation, not indoctrination.



No social justice and identity politics does that when they tell me I'm oppressed by evil white males.

There isn't a gap between me and non-whites, because I'm not white.

There is a gap between me and people who think white men are oppressing me with their whiteness. I think they are full of shit and they can't do anything but call me a racist traitor to my own people and other minorities everywhere like the proud social justice warriors they are with all their tolerance for minorities with different views.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

Unless/until people respect and honor all other people, regardless of race, religion, etc, we, as a human race, are doomed to fail as a species on this planet.

Unicorn crap.

Human beings NATURALLY do not "respect and honor all other people, regardless of race, religion, etc".

Nothing like a utopian preaching that "we" must conquer human nature.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Cool, you're Korean! That helps me understand you a little better. Years ago, I lived and worked in Seoul for almost a year and have always appreciated the intensity and passion of the Korean people.

Ethnically yes, but culturally I'm American.

I'm seeing other notions that just don't make sense... Like free market capitalism = equal opportunity for all? In the textbooks maybe, but not in real life where capitalism = cronyism and corruption and certainly NOT equal opportunity.

Cronyism and corruption = corporatism...not capitalism.

To have capitalism the government cannot be dictating the terms of private commerce....cronyism and corruption are dependent upon government involvement/enforcement of arbitrary shit being injected into private commerce which makes them by definition not capitalism.

Not to mention that free market capitalism only works, in theory, if all the participants have perfect information. Clearly not true in this day of corporate greed and mis-information.

No free market capitalism only works if the government stays the fuck out of it and quits telling people who is allowed to make how much and for what.

Oh, and Social Justice doesn't "say" anything... I'm sure you realize that you are projecting your own opinions about social justice?

Curious how are you are being oppressed by white men?

No but it's people and supporters do.

I'm not, social justice proponents say that I am though because the mystical white privilege boogeyman is out to oppress me and anything but compliance with that makes me a racist and sexist.

"But mine is far more accurate in real world terms." With all due respect, but your definition makes no sense "in real world terms". Social justice is NOT about white people and/or their privilege.

It does if you pay attention to all the people out protesting those evil white fuckers and all their privilege that they oppress minorities and women with all the time.

It is about society not treating ALL people fairly. The poor, the elderly, the disadvantaged.

Define fair and explain how are the poor, the elderly and the disadvantaged (?? who are they?) not being treated fairly??

 

[Conager]

Ethnically yes, but culturally I'm American.



Cronyism and corruption = corporatism...not capitalism.

To have capitalism the government cannot be dictating the terms of private commerce....cronyism and corruption are dependent upon government involvement/enforcement of arbitrary shit being injected into private commerce which makes them by definition not capitalism.



No free market capitalism only works if the government stays the fuck out of it and quits telling people who is allowed to make how much and for what.



No but it's people and supporters do.

I'm not, social justice proponents say that I am though because the mystical white privilege boogeyman is out to oppress me and anything but compliance with that makes me a racist and sexist.



It does if you pay attention to all the people out protesting those evil white fuckers and all their privilege that they oppress minorities and women with all the time.



Define fair and explain how are the poor, the elderly and the disadvantaged (?? who are they?) not being treated fairly??

I like how she is being careful not to hate on the white man however when she says that there are people that are "disadvantaged" that's simply a dog whistle for white privilege.

There are no programs anywhere across the fruited plain specifically designed for disadvantaged white males.

 

[TalkToMeInSB]

Good one. I don't disagree about the natural inclinations of humans, and I go back and forth between the two sides.

Being hopelessly optimistic I want to believe it is possible to live in peace with each other. But history tells us otherwise...

I'll remain cautiously optimistic and work towards righting injustices. I can not completely succumb to the notion that humans will always live in conflict with each other. For that is a self-fulfilling slippery slope....

Unicorn crap.

Human beings NATURALLY do not "respect and honor all other people, regardless of race, religion, etc".

Nothing like a utopian preaching that "we" must conquer human nature.

 

[ifrtbttrflys]

Chaos and conflict are simply natural parts of reality - they have absolutely no negative connotation except for what we individually may or may not apply to them.

Humans WILL always live in conflict with each other to varying degrees - that's what's called a fact of life.

The point is to fully recognize reality for what it is and then to deal with it as best we can, not to fantasize what we wish life would be, and then to waste so much time, money, and resources insisting those fabricated illusions are anything but.

Every person who's ever lived has been racist, prejudiced, and bigoted to some degree. Successful people are honest enough to realize that in both themselves and others, and then to deal with those realities, instead of fantasizing any magic wand exists which can make reality disappear.

One of America's most dire problems today is that so many choose not to honestly deal with reality but, instead, prefer to live in per their own illusions. And then they further their crime against reality by insisting and legislating that everyone else must live according to their illusions, too.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I like how she is being careful not to hate on the white man however when she says that there are people that are "disadvantaged" that's simply a dog whistle for white privilege.

And calling attention to the existence of white privilege is not hating on the white man.

Anti-racism is not anti-white, anti-sexism is not anti-male.

There are no programs anywhere across the fruited plain specifically designed for disadvantaged white males.

Of course not. Why would there be? Many white male Americans are disadvantaged, but no American is disadvantaged by being white or male.

 

[Queertag45]

FYP





I called you a racist because you called me a gook, you racist sack of shit.

That's Marine talk for a zipper head, slope, slant eye et al

 

[TalkToMeInSB]

Lest you think I'm a magic wand advocate, fear not. Nor do I hold any fabricated illusions about reality.

But... One can have hope, and work towards "dealing with it as best we can" NOT involving conflict, nor escalating to the point of violence. At least not in our own lives, and our communities.

We can't change/legislate societies as a whole, but we can work on our selves and those around us in the area of conflict resolution.

I've heard you're point of view before and it makes me wonder how you deal with conflict in your life? Or is that perspective primarily from a societal/governmental level?

Chaos and conflict are simply natural parts of reality - they have absolutely no negative connotation except for what we individually may or may not apply to them.

Humans WILL always live in conflict with each other to varying degrees - that's what's called a fact of life.

The point is to fully recognize reality for what it is and then to deal with it as best we can, not to fantasize what we wish life would be, and then to waste so much time, money, and resources insisting those fabricated illusions are anything but.

Every person who's ever lived has been racist, prejudiced, and bigoted to some degree. Successful people are honest enough to realize that in both themselves and others, and then to deal with those realities, instead of fantasizing any magic wand exists which can make reality disappear.

One of America's most dire problems today is that so many choose not to honestly deal with reality but, instead, prefer to live in per their own illusions. And then they further their crime against reality by insisting and legislating that everyone else must live according to their illusions, too.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Every person who's ever lived has been racist, prejudiced, and bigoted to some degree. Successful people are honest enough to realize that in both themselves and others, and then to deal with those realities, instead of fantasizing any magic wand exists which can make reality disappear.

And anti-discrimination laws are a way of dealing with those realities, not a way of wishing them away.

 

[DooleyDarter]

What a bunch of libbie loser bitches, get over it.

 

[TalkToMeInSB]

Well said! Wait... What?!? Who? Get over what? Ohhh.... I think I know...

Is this the, now standard, refrain from the Trumpers that the election is over?

Good one! Can't tell you how often I see this completely inappropriate, and often poorly articulated, response to... well, EVERYTHING!

<yawn>

What a bunch of libbie loser bitches, get over it.

 

[Hypoxia]

What a bunch of libbie loser bitches, get over it.

Over ten million more voted against Tromp than for him. He won a takeover of power, not a popular victory. He's already walking-back on most pledges he made to attract suckers er I mean voters. Welcome to his world.

 

[Saint Peter]

But what about The Wall?

We are still getting The Wall, right?

 

[Saint Peter]

And the manufacturing jobs?

The steel mills will be firing up soon. They have to.


He said so!