Trump fucks up again. Ukraine negotiation goes sideways

[ChloeTzang]

We really cannot say Zelenskyy has made any "compromise" until he offers to give up territory.

LOL and we know that won't happen. The Ukrainian Constitution says they can't and any attempt to do so would likely lead to Zaluzhny becoming President, and he's more hard-line that Zelensky. That's one compromise that won't happen. I suspect Zelensky is taking a Russian approach to negotiations here and the war will continue.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Well, there's Russia's answer. Only Ukrainian surrender is acceptable. So the war will continue.

So a queston for Trump. When does US military aid resume?

 

[ChloeTzang]

And Trump continues to beat a dead horse.....

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[ChloeTzang]

'I think that nation will be crushed very shortly' — Trump says he's 'saving' Ukraine​

Trump's being very open about not helping Ukraine in the slightest.

"I think that nation will be crushed very shortly. It's a big war machine. ... I think I'm doing a great service to Ukraine. I believe that."

When told that Ukrainians do not necessarily share that perspective, Trump insisted again that the full-scale invasion would not have happened if he had won the 2020 U.S. election — a claim Trump makes repeatedly when pressed on his Ukraine-Russia policy, often in lieu of discussing current or future assistance to Kyiv.

I think Trump's made it clear enough he wants Russia and Putin to win.

https://kyivindependent.com/i-think...d-very-shortly-trump-says-hes-saving-ukraine/

 

[ChloeTzang]

Zelensky won't sell out Ukraine for Trump's peace​

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and his Ukrainian negotiating team have already concluded that the peace deal that U.S. President Donald Trump is trying to force through simply cannot be sold to the Ukrainian public. The Trump proposal appears to require Ukraine to accept the loss of Crimea and other Russian-occupied territories, without receiving any security assurances in return. It even demands that Ukraine abandon its bid to join NATO. Given that Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity are enshrined in its constitution, it's hard to imagine Zelensky being able to secure legislative approval for such a deal — and he knows that.

For Zelensky, it must already be clear that Trump is pulling out all the stops to deliver on Putin’s agenda. Trump wants a reset in U.S.-Russia relations and appears willing to do whatever it takes to achieve that — including making concessions at Ukraine’s expense.

Trump sees Ukraine as the weaker partner in all this — a country to be bullied into accepting a deal that suits him and Putin, but not Ukraine. He seems unconcerned with whether the deal is acceptable to the Ukrainian people, or whether it would destabilize Ukraine politically, economically, and socially. That’s not his problem. Trump appears focused solely on signing any deal — no matter how bad for Ukraine — as quickly as possible, securing headlines for delivering "peace," and perhaps even chasing the Nobel Peace Prize he so desires.

So what is Zelensky’s strategy now?

Zelensky knows that Trump will try to strike a deal with Putin regardless of what happens in Ukraine, as long as it results in normalized U.S.-Russia relations. He also knows Trump and Putin will try to pin the blame on him — and Ukraine — for any breakdown in peace talks. We saw signs of that last week, when Trump attacked Zelensky for stating the obvious: Ukraine cannot legally accept the loss of Crimea. Politically, that would be suicide for Zelensky and could spark a revolution at home.

It seems Zelensky is playing for time. He likely understands that Trump will eventually walk away from the negotiations, taking Putin with him. In the meantime, Ukraine still has access to a significant portion of the $61 billion U.S. military aid package approved under former U.S. President Joe Biden's administration. Zelensky likely wants to draw down as much of that support as possible — and secure additional European financial and military assistance — before rejecting any Trump-brokered deal.

Ideally, Zelensky wants to force Putin to walk away from the talks. But given Trump’s admiration for Putin, that seems unlikely. In the meantime, Zelensky is trying to buy time for Ukraine’s military and defense industry to strengthen its position and fill the gaps left by a potential U.S. pullback — gaps that are significant in areas like Patriot missiles, HIMARS, and ATACMS. The goal is to build enough resilience to sustain a long war, hoping that time will yield strategic advantages — whether through shifts in U.S. politics, such as the midterms, or mounting challenges for Putin inside Russia, as we saw with the Wagner Group uprising.

Whatever Trump and Putin agree to, without Ukraine’s participation, Russia simply lacks the military capacity to capitalize on it through a renewed offensive. In the end, this could be a poisoned chalice for Putin: gifted a "win" in Ukraine by Trump, but unable to follow through because of his own — and Russia’s — shortcomings.

https://kyivindependent.com/why-zelensky-wont-and-cant-sell-out-ukraine-for-trumps-peace/

 

[ChloeTzang]

Counting down to a million cockroach casualties.

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[ChloeTzang]

Yet without cards Zelensky and Ukraine keep fighting.

Despite Putin and Trump teaming up on Ukraine.

 

[ChloeTzang]

This should help with including clauses re handing over Russian war criminals in the negotiations. Ukraine: SBU Alpha Group Special Forces Colonel Roman Kostenko, member of the Cyborgs who valiantly defended the Donetsk airport in 2014 reaffirmed that Ukraine will hunt down all Russian war criminals wherever they are, for decades to come after the war.

Better a cell in The Hague than a Ukrainian SBU team making an appointment for you to join the Russian cosmonaut team....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1917269651073163587

 

[Baztrachian]

Time to repost Russia's ultimatum of December 15, 2021:

Draft

The United States of America and the Russian Federation, hereinafter referred to as the “Parties”,

guided by the principles contained in the Charter of the United Nations, the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, the 1975 Helsinki Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, as well as the provisions of the 1982 Manila Declaration on the Peaceful Settlement of Disputes, the 1999 Charter for European Security, and the 1997 Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the Russian Federation,

recalling the inadmissibility of the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations both in their mutual and international relations in general,

supporting the role of the United Nations Security Council that has the primary responsibility for maintaining international peace and security,

recognizing the need for united efforts to effectively respond to modern security challenges and threats in a globalized and interdependent world,

considering the need for strict compliance with the principle of non-interference in the internal affairs, including refraining from supporting organizations, groups or individuals calling for an unconstitutional change of power, as well as from undertaking any actions aimed at changing the political or social system of one of the Contracting Parties,

bearing in mind the need to create additional effective and quick-to-launch cooperation mechanisms or improve the existing ones to settle emerging issues and disputes through a constructive dialogue on the basis of mutual respect for and recognition of each other’s security interests and concerns, as well as to elaborate adequate responses to security challenges and threats,

seeking to avoid any military confrontation and armed conflict between the Parties and realizing that direct military clash between them could result in the use of nuclear weapons that would have far-reaching consequences,

reaffirming that a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought, and recognizing the need to make every effort to prevent the risk of outbreak of such war among States that possess nuclear weapons,

reaffirming their commitments under the Agreement between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on Measures to Reduce the Risk of Outbreak of Nuclear War of 30 September 1971, the Agreement between the Government of the United States of America and the Government of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Prevention of Incidents On and Over the High Seas of 25 May 1972, the Agreement between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Establishment of Nuclear Risk Reduction Centers of 15 September 1987, as well as the Agreement between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Prevention of Dangerous Military Activities of 12 June 1989,

have agreed as follows:

Article 1

The Parties shall cooperate on the basis of principles of indivisible, equal and undiminished security and to these ends:

shall not undertake actions nor participate in or support activities that affect the security of the other Party;

shall not implement security measures adopted by each Party individually or in the framework of an international organization, military alliance or coalition that could undermine core security interests of the other Party.

Article 2

The Parties shall seek to ensure that all international organizations, military alliances and coalitions in which at least one of the Parties is taking part adhere to the principles contained in the Charter of the United Nations.

Article 3

The Parties shall not use the territories of other States with a view to preparing or carrying out an armed attack against the other Party or other actions affecting core security interests of the other Party.

Article 4

The United States of America shall undertake to prevent further eastward expansion of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and deny accession to the Alliance to the States of the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The United States of America shall not establish military bases in the territory of the States of the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics that are not members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, use their infrastructure for any military activities or develop bilateral military cooperation with them.

Article 5

The Parties shall refrain from deploying their armed forces and armaments, including in the framework of international organizations, military alliances or coalitions, in the areas where such deployment could be perceived by the other Party as a threat to its national security, with the exception of such deployment within the national territories of the Parties.

The Parties shall refrain from flying heavy bombers equipped for nuclear or non-nuclear armaments or deploying surface warships of any type, including in the framework of international organizations, military alliances or coalitions, in the areas outside national airspace and national territorial waters respectively, from where they can attack targets in the territory of the other Party.

The Parties shall maintain dialogue and cooperate to improve mechanisms to prevent dangerous military activities on and over the high seas, including agreeing on the maximum approach distance between warships and aircraft.

Article 6

The Parties shall undertake not to deploy ground-launched intermediate-range and shorter-range missiles outside their national territories, as well as in the areas of their national territories, from which such weapons can attack targets in the national territory of the other Party.

Article 7

The Parties shall refrain from deploying nuclear weapons outside their national territories and return such weapons already deployed outside their national territories at the time of the entry into force of the Treaty to their national territories. The Parties shall eliminate all existing infrastructure for deployment of nuclear weapons outside their national territories.

The Parties shall not train military and civilian personnel from non-nuclear countries to use nuclear weapons. The Parties shall not conduct exercises or training for general-purpose forces, that include scenarios involving the use of nuclear weapons.

Article 8

The Treaty shall enter into force from the date of receipt of the last written notification on the completion by the Parties of their domestic procedures necessary for its entry into force.

Done in two originals, each in English and Russian languages, both texts being equally authentic.

For the United States of America For the Russian Federation

Source: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/23/treaty-between-united-states-america-russian/

 

[Baztrachian]

Oh, and FUCK RUSSIA!!

 

[ChloeTzang]

This is why you don't negotiate with Russians. You just kill them until they surrender, and then you kill them anyway on general principles.

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[Baztrachian]

@ChloeTzang

I agree with your post above. Trump is no longer trying to achieve a mere peace, he has moved to trying to demand a Ukrainian capitulation or else the US will withdraw.

 

[Politruk]

@ChloeTzang

I agree with your post above. Trump is no longer trying to achieve a mere peace, he has moved to trying to demand a Ukrainian capitulation or else the US will withdraw.

He'll do whatever Putin wants him to do.

The pee tape can't account for this much -- Putin must have dirt on Trump's dealings with the Russian Mafiya. (Of course he's in bed with organized crime, he's a New York real estate developer.)

 

[Lazaran]

@ChloeTzang

I agree with your post above. Trump is no longer trying to achieve a mere peace, he has moved to trying to demand a Ukrainian capitulation or else the US will withdraw.

Do you approve or disapprove of what the rapey, racist, misogynistic, imbecilic, corrupt orange traitor is doing???

 

[Baztrachian]

Do you approve or disapprove of what (President Trump) is doing???

With regards to Ukraine and Russia? No.

I also objected to Obama's inaction on Russia's 2014 invasion of Ukraine. I objected to Trump's relative inaction during his first term, and I objected to the Biden regime micromanaging the Ukrainian war effort when no such limitations were placed on the fucking Russians.

Trump right now is not 'playing 4d chess' as the Q-tards would like to believe. He wants peace at any price not because it would be good for either Russia or Ukraine but because it would be good for business.

War is not something you make a deal over and he's way out of his depth if he keeps at it this way.

Wars are won, lost, or put off for another day.

At best Trump's strategy in Ukraine will put off the war for another day.

The correct thing to do here is to tell the goddamned Russians to quit their fucking war or else we give the Ukrainians every modern state-of-the-art weapons system we can, starting with long range missiles to hit Russian assets well removed from the current theatre of operations.

I'd also increase the tempo of the American military in performing recon around Russia to keep those fuckers busy and nervous.

Russia cannot keep up their tempo without exhausting irreplaceable Soviet-era assets. We can wear them down and make them quit this war at a low cost.

But I think Trump wants those Russian cocksuckers to win.

 

[Baztrachian]

(Of course he's in bed with organized crime, he's a New York real estate developer.)

The thing you're missing is that in New York the state government is the leading criminal organization.

Eric Adams is discovering this right now because he's pushing back against it.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Trump triggers price crash: Oil plunges at fastest rate in years​

I'm sure Trump didn't mean to do this to his buddy Putin, but this is going to handicap the Russian budget and spending on the military.....

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/top...S&cvid=bbbd1f6b159844d7a51319bdcc9349dd&ei=21

 

[ChloeTzang]

The level of delusion that Trump is operating under just makes him a laughimg stock. For all his mental incapcity, Biden's handlers at least kept him to an approximation of reality. If Trump actually believes this, it's dangerous - he's completely out of touch. He has not done a single thing to actually help Ukraine. Quite the converse. Bizarre that he even says this.

"Putin would have gotten all of Ukraine if I hadn't won the election", Trump told ABC.The US president added that Putin respects him and is ready to stop the war.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1917447201866867177

 

[Lazaran]

With regards to Ukraine and Russia? No.

OK.

I also objected to Obama's inaction on Russia's 2014 invasion of Ukraine.

President Obama should have gone to war with Russia over a still corrupt (at the time) Ukraine that was still figuring out which way they wanted to go??? While President Obama (the U.S.) was still dealing with: The aftermath of Bush’s financial crisis; the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria; the aftermath of the Arab spring; an obstructionist republican congress; immigration issues; healthcare issues, etc, etc, etc???

I objected to Trump's relative inaction during his first term, and I objected to the Biden regime micromanaging the Ukrainian war effort when no such limitations were placed on the fucking Russians.

Trump was (is) in Russia’s (Putin’s) pocket and begrudgingly levied sanctions and provided Ukraine with the bare minimum of military assistance in his first failed term, even though the economic and geopolitical situation was INFINITELY more stable than what President Obama faced / inherited.



President Biden ACTUALLY prosecuted the war against Russia brilliantly - which was only made possible by President Biden’s determination to get the U.S. out of Afghanistan after Trump caved to the Taliban. AND, by the magnificent efforts and sacrifices of the U.S. military under nearly unprecedented circumstances . And President Biden also did it while contending with the generally FUBAR conditions / circumstances in America (and the world) left by Trump.

Trump right now is not 'playing 4d chess' as the Q-tards would like to believe. He wants peace at any price not because it would be good for either Russia or Ukraine but because it would be good for business.

“good for business”, AND good for Russia; which Trump seems VERY concerned about for "some" reason.

War is not something you make a deal over and he's way out of his depth if he keeps at it this way.

Wars are won, lost, or put off for another day.

At best Trump's strategy in Ukraine will put off the war for another day.

The correct thing to do here is to tell the goddamned Russians to quit their fucking war or else we give the Ukrainians every modern state-of-the-art weapons system we can, starting with long range missiles to hit Russian assets well removed from the current theatre of operations.

I'd also increase the tempo of the American military in performing recon around Russia to keep those fuckers busy and nervous.

Russia cannot keep up their tempo without exhausting irreplaceable Soviet-era assets. We can wear them down and make them quit this war at a low cost.

Everything you suggest / suggested held / holds the real potential for a nuclear escalation that COULD partially be laid at the feet of the U.S.



President Biden had a brilliant strategy going, whether anyone wants to admit it or not: The steady ratcheting up of Ukrainian capabilities and U.S. permissions for long range strikes inside Russia, etc, in response to Russian escalation was working quite effectively. Russia was bleeding from every oradice.

But I think Trump wants those Russian cocksuckers to win.

Agreed.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Politruk]

The thing you're missing is that in New York the state government is the leading criminal organization.

Eric Adams is discovering this right now because he's pushing back against it.

That conflict only makes the state look honest. Adams sure ain't!

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[DeluxAuto]

The thing you're missing is that in New York the state government is the leading criminal organization.

Eric Adams is discovering this right now because he's pushing back against it.

I either want to be on all of the drugs you're on or none of them.

Holy shit