Trump fucks up again. Ukraine negotiation goes sideways

[Deleted member 1215945]

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[ChloeTzang]

This is what happens when you go rogue, Donny. You start to become irrelevant. EU will back Ukraine, and Trump will come out of this looking and smelling like a traitor in Putin's pockets, and nothing will get rid of that stink, even if Trump changes direction now.

 

[Lance_Castro]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/bl96JUhD-poAAAAC/scanners-ironside.gifPresident Scanner !

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[ChloeTzang]

Uh oh.... Saab, BAE, Dassault Aviation and Airbus are gonna be busy for years.....

 

[ChloeTzang]

It took 100 years to build a US-led world order. Trump has destroyed it in six weeks.

He's also
1. Wiped trillions off the U.S. stock market

2. Pushed Q1 GDP projections from +3.9% to -2.8%, probably pushing us into a major recession

3. Destroyed nuclear nonproliferation, as Poland has already announced its intention to develop nukes and about 50 other countries are doing it silently, seeing that the promise of US protection in exchange for not building their own can be yanked out from underneath, treaty or no treaty

4. Destroyed the US weapons industry, which was starting to boom after Russia revealed how bad its own weapons are

5. Destroyed the value/trust of Starlink

6. Created enemies out of allies around the world

7. Strengthened authoritarians, foreign and domestic

8. Crippled U.S. influence in ideological battlegrounds across Africa and Asia by shutting down USAID.

9. Turned America into a geopolitical pariah.

10. Convinced Russia to significantly expand its missile attacks on cities in western Ukraine like Odessa and Lviv, knowing the US has cancelled information sharing, and move into full genocide mode, pouring cluster munitions on residential neighborhoods.

11. Got Russian propagandists to gleefully expand their acquisition list, so Russian TV is now talking about the island of Gotland (Sweden), the Åland Islands (Finland) and the Svalbard archipelago (Norway)--claiming that the Scandinavian countries “brazenly revised their status” on these islands, etc.

You have to seriously ask yourself what else he could do to weaken the USA and cause chaos worldwide, and the answer is, not a whole lot more. This isn't just bad policy - it's a geopolitical catastrophe. Trump has turned the US into a pariah, crippled its influence, and made the world more dangerous than it has been since World War II. If this trajectory continues, it won't just be Ukraine that falls - NATO itself could collapse, and the entire Western security framework could unravel. The world took a century to build a US-led order that upheld relative global stability from WW2 to now. Trump is tearing it apart in real time, and unless Europe and other US allies act fast, they could be facing the consequences alone.

I think I'll go back and re-read Strauss and Howe's "The Fourth Turning" - Trump is definitely the black swan event that will launch us into a crisis - according to the authors, the fourth turning is a crisis. The last American Crisis was the period spanning the Great Depression and World War II and we're about due for another. The crisi is an era of destruction, often involving war or revolution, in which institutional life is destroyed and rebuilt in response to a perceived threat to the nation's survival. Hmmmm. Strikes me that's what Trump is preciptating. I feel a sudden urge to relocate somewhere very isolated. Tierra del Fuego or Tasmania perhaps.

The worst part is, even if we elect someone other than a GOP candidate in 2028, it will be far too late to fix the damage Trump is doing.

 

[eric_erosfan]

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Well France went to shit not long after the Revolutionary War and they lost all the ledgers.

 

[eric_erosfan]

It took 100 years to build a US-led world order. Trump has destroyed it in six weeks.

He's also
1. Wiped trillions off the U.S. stock market

2. Pushed Q1 GDP projections from +3.9% to -2.8%, probably pushing us into a major recession

3. Destroyed nuclear nonproliferation, as Poland has already announced its intention to develop nukes and about 50 other countries are doing it silently, seeing that the promise of US protection in exchange for not building their own can be yanked out from underneath, treaty or no treaty

4. Destroyed the US weapons industry, which was starting to boom after Russia revealed how bad its own weapons are

5. Destroyed the value/trust of Starlink

6. Created enemies out of allies around the world

7. Strengthened authoritarians, foreign and domestic

8. Crippled U.S. influence in ideological battlegrounds across Africa and Asia by shutting down USAID.

9. Turned America into a geopolitical pariah.

10. Convinced Russia to significantly expand its missile attacks on cities in western Ukraine like Odessa and Lviv, knowing the US has cancelled information sharing, and move into full genocide mode, pouring cluster munitions on residential neighborhoods.

11. Got Russian propagandists to gleefully expand their acquisition list, so Russian TV is now talking about the island of Gotland (Sweden), the Åland Islands (Finland) and the Svalbard archipelago (Norway)--claiming that the Scandinavian countries “brazenly revised their status” on these islands, etc.

You have to seriously ask yourself what else he could do to weaken the USA and cause chaos worldwide, and the answer is, not a whole lot more. This isn't just bad policy - it's a geopolitical catastrophe. Trump has turned the US into a pariah, crippled its influence, and made the world more dangerous than it has been since World War II. If this trajectory continues, it won't just be Ukraine that falls - NATO itself could collapse, and the entire Western security framework could unravel. The world took a century to build a US-led order that upheld relative global stability from WW2 to now. Trump is tearing it apart in real time, and unless Europe and other US allies act fast, they could be facing the consequences alone.

Where was all this from you before a few weeks ago?

We all knew this for months.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Where was all this from you before a few weeks ago?

We all knew this for months.

Yeah well, mea culpa. I had my blinkers on. Like a lot of conservatives, I though Trump was just feeding the MAGA base what they wanted to hear and after he was President, he'd get back to realpolitik on Ukraine. I had no idea he was either batshit crazy, or in Putin's pocket. I was so fucking wrong and I don't mind repeating that.

 

[Deleted member 1215945]

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[ChloeTzang]

As always, a quote from Churchill seems appropriate. Trump has chosen dishonor.....

 

[eric_erosfan]

Yeah well, mea culpa. I had my blinkers on. Like a lot of conservatives, I though Trump was just feeding the MAGA base what they wanted to hear and after he was President, he'd get back to realpolitik on Ukraine. I had no idea he was either batshit crazy, or in Putin's pocket. I was so fucking wrong and I don't mind repeating that.

Yet it was always obvious that Trump and his MAGA base didn't give a shit about Ukraine. Sadly it has been mostly Democrats that have stood up for Ukraine. Republicans have always thought Ukraine should just give up the territory that Russia wants. And now that is Trump's stated goal.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Trump continues to demonstrate his complete devotion to Russia. MAGAs love it.

The US has rejected a Canadian proposal to establish a task force that would tackle Russia’s so-called “shadow fleet” of oil tankers, according to reports last night.

As well as vetoing Canada’s proposal to establish a task force to monitor sanctions breaches, the draft G7 statement seen by Bloomberg News shows the US pushed to remove the word “sanctions” as well as wording citing Russia’s “ability to maintain its war” in Ukraine by replacing it with “earn revenue”.

And the Trump administration came right out and said it is changing alliances:

US diplomats briefed their G7 counterparts that the move was because of Washington’s “re-evaluation of its position in multilateral organisations, rendering it unable to join any new initiatives”, according to the Bloomberg report.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...to-combat-russias-shadow-fleet-of-oil-tankers

 

[ChloeTzang]

Trump, meanwhile, is ensuring hundreds of civilians have died and are going to die as a result of murderous terrorist attacks. This makes him complict in the mass murders carried out by Putin. Not to mention dead Ukrainian soldiers as a result of his betrayal of Ukraine.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Yet it was always obvious that Trump and his MAGA base didn't give a shit about Ukraine. Sadly it has been mostly Democrats that have stood up for Ukraine. Republicans have always thought Ukraine should just give up the territory that Russia wants. And now that is Trump's stated goal.

The MAGA base, yet, butthere are a lot of Republicans who support Ukraine. As I said, most of us believed Trump was simply talking and that his actions after he was elected would be inline with the interests of the USA. Foreign Policy-wise, he's a disaster and he's doing irreparable damage, not just to the USA but to the world.

 

[SteelPoint]

Just come across this thread in my browsing.

Everyone who talks about Trump and Ukraine ought to read this item. Eight years old but highly relevant... and of course things have only gone further still downhill since it was written.

https://medium.com/@abbievansickle/timeline-of-trumps-relationship-to-russia-5e78c7e7f480

 

[SteelPoint]

Would Melanoma like what's on the tapes, Donny boy?

I rather think she wouldn't. They probably put the earlier 'groping' recordings considerably in the shade... very considerably...

 

[ChloeTzang]

Hmmmm, lots of unstarted or incomplete orders.....and it's not just a kill switch that only the US controls. Before any F35 can take off, and do anything, mission data is transmitted to a US Air Force facility in Eglin, Florida. Might be time to rethink those orders, boys and girls.

Surprised anyone would buy an aircraft with that sort of build in limitation. Especially if they can be turned off from Moscow.


If the US shuts this down, all of our F35s are useless ornaments.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Nothing American in these - unlike the Gripen. I could see Macron closing a deal with Zelensky here....

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[ChloeTzang]

Trump keeps moving the goalposts for "resuming military aid." It's obvious he does not intend to resume aid for Ukraine under any circumstances, and is actively siding with Putin in an attempt to force Ukraine to capitulate. U.S. President Donald Trump has privately made it clear to his aides that he will not resume providing military aid and intelligence to Ukraine even if Kyiv and Washington sign a minerals deal, NBC News reported on March 9, citing an unnamed Trump administration official and another American official. The U.S. president also reportedly wants Zelensky to make some steps toward elections in Ukraine and possibly step down. Zelensky's approval rating has risen to 68%, according to a poll by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology published on March 7.

Ukraine should at this point just tell Trump to fuck right off. He's not going to help Ukraine under any circumstances, and he has no intention of pressuring Putin in any way whatsoever. The US has made itself irrelevant. Trump has no "peace plan" other than Ukrainian surrender, and Ukrainians know what that means.

Europe and Ukraine will now determine the continent's future.


https://kyivindependent.com/trump-w...er-signing-of-minerals-deal-nbc-news-reports/

 

[ChloeTzang]

Elon Musk is killing Starlink.....Ukraine will see this statement as the warning that it is and move to an alternative as quickly as they can. Musk just killed Starlink in Ukraine and a lot of other European countries. Not immediately, but as fast as it can be replaced.....

 

[ChloeTzang]

US partially stops support for F-16 fighters in Ukraine - Forbes​

Just when you think Trump can't do more damage to Ukraine, he does. The US cannot simply "turn off" the F-16 fighter jets from Lockheed Martin. However, the US has suspended critical support for the radar systems on the F-16s currently in Ukraine. This could deprive the Air Force of crucial air defense capabilities, according to Forbes. "That could deprive the Ukrainian air force of its most important aerial countermeasures at a critical moment in Russia’s three-year wider war on Ukraine," Forbes writes.

This is not only stabbing Ukraine in the back, making it harder for them to intercept cruise missiles and drones terror bombing Ukraine and massacring civilians, but it also gives the middle finger to those countries who worked so hard to refurbish their F16's, train the pilots and get these aircraft to Ukraine to help defend their skies. There's no two ways about it, Trump has morphed into a murderous thug who's enjoying emulating Putin and who has not just abandoned Europe but turned against our former allies. He's also killed future US aircraft sales along with a lot of other military orders. I'd expect to see a lot of F35 orders cancelled as a result of this. No wonder Dassault has doubled Rafale production for 2025.

The US defence industry is going to see orders collapse. The one thing Ukraine has are the French Mirage 2000's. The French Ministry of Defense had promised to install new electronic warfare systems on the Mirage 2000 jets before they were delivered to Ukraine. It is likely that the system in question is the analog Integrated Countermeasures Suite Mark 2 or the fully digital Integrated Countermeasures Suite Mark 3.

There aren't going to be any new Mirage 2000's - the last production aircraft was delivered on 23 November 2007 to the Hellenic Air Force; afterwards, the production line was shut down. However, there are quite a few still in service - France has around 100 of them in service. Greece has 19 that have been retired and could possibly be refurbished. Qatar has another dozen. And then there's that ongoing talk about the Gripen......

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...S&cvid=f5a188f5013e4932a70defcb616fdee9&ei=26

 

[ChloeTzang]

Trump calls Zelensky ‘ungrateful’ and dodges question on Russia allegiance in Fox News interview​

On Sunday, Trump reiterated that he thought Zelensky wasn’t “grateful” and added that he “took candy from a baby” — his description of the Biden administration’s policy of military and political support for Ukraine’s military. The president also seemed to deride the Ukrainian leader’s assertion that service members in his country’s armed forces were serving the country bravely.

A gleeful Kremlin spokesperson declared in recent days that the US policy on Ukraine was shifting to entirely match the Russian government’s position. “The new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations,” Dmitry Peskov said on Russian state TV earlier in March.

Zelensky and Ukraine have absolutely nothing to be grateful to Trump for, and Trump's delusional insistence that it does is just another insult.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...S&cvid=b8b190232aa847eabe4a70a0e648955d&ei=21

 

[ChloeTzang]

Trump suggests that Ukraine might not survive war with Russia​

Trump has caused a stir by suggesting that Ukraine might not survive the war with Russia. In an interview with Fox News that aired on Sunday, the US president was asked whether he was comfortable with the fact that he had stopped aid to the country and that Ukraine might not survive this. Trump replied: "Well, it may not survive anyway." Under Trump, the US government has made a radical U-turn in its policy on Ukraine, most recently ending support for Kiev altogether and actively sabotaging Ukraine's abulity to defend itself wherever possible. Trump is NOT going to come up with a peace plan. He is NOT going to force Putin to accept a security arrangement for Ukraine with boots on the ground to secure peace.

Trump's peace plan is to force Ukraine to capitulate. He will lose that one. The only question than will be, how does he lash out and assist Putin?

In the pantheon of appeasers and useful idiots, one name is going to stand out in disgrace and infamy, Donald J Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...TS&cvid=61d71802b54c40049c58c2b93507df0d&ei=9