Trump announces task force to ‘eradicate anti-Christian bias’

[Politruk]

Lol, who got deleted?

How can we even know? All the posts say now is "Deleted member 1215945."

 

[JohnEngelman]

There is no longer any consensus among psychologists that there even is such thing as a general intelligence factor g. See Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences.

There is also no longer any consensus among anthropologists that the "races" as traditionally defined even exist in the way dog breeds exist. They're really just social-cultural constructs.

In his essay "The Inequality Taboo" Charles Murray mentioned an interesting experiment that has been reproduced with the same results. 3,626 subjects were asked to identify their face. They were also asked to donate a tissue sample for DNA analysis. Those doing the DNA analysis did not know which race the subjects claimed for themselves, but they agreed 99.9% of the time.

https://www.aei.org/articles/the-inequality-taboo/

This is a good experiment because it can be repeated, and it is double blind. Charles Murray is denounced with irritable emotions. His assertions can be documented with scientific fact after scientific fact.

 

[JohnEngelman]

I presume he would say Jews are OK because Jews are white.

There is sharp division on that point within the White Nationalist community.

I am not a white nationalist, but a race realist, and a Judeophile.

 

[Politruk]

I am not a white nationalist, but a race realist

A distinction without a difference.

 

[Politruk]

In his essay "The Inequality Taboo" Charles Murray mentioned an interesting experiment that has been reproduced with the same results. 3,626 subjects were asked to identify their face. They were also asked to donate a tissue sample for DNA analysis. Those doing the DNA analysis did not know which race the subjects claimed for themselves, but they agreed 99.9% of the time.

https://www.aei.org/articles/the-inequality-taboo/

This is a good experiment because it can be repeated, and it is double blind. Charles Murray is denounced with irritable emotions. His assertions can be documented with scientific fact after scientific fact.

All that proves is the existence of a link between genetic code and physical appearance, which nobody ever doubted. It means nothing.

And even you should know better than to cite anything from the American Enterprise Institute.

 

[JohnEngelman]

All that proves is the existence of a link between genetic code and physical appearance, which nobody ever doubted. It means nothing.

And even you should know better than to cite anything from the American Enterprise Institute.

Once it can pr proved that race is a legitimate biological category of humans it is acceptable to study the way the races differ in average ability levels and behavior.

I disagree with some of what the American Enterprise Institute advocates, but I trust the organization's integrity to post accurate facts.

 

[JohnEngelman]

A distinction without a difference.

A white nationalist believes that white Gentiles, of whom I am one, have a moral obligation to other white Gentiles that they do not have to other people. I do not think that way.

 

[LLCox]

More big government interference into our freedom of speech and all that.

Does this come before the gold and Pentagon audit or after. Is this still day one ?

 

[Politruk]

Once it can pr proved that race is a legitimate biological category of humans

That study does nothing to prove it.

 

[Politruk]

I disagree with some of what the American Enterprise Institute advocates, but I trust the organization's integrity to post accurate facts.

You should not trust any organization of the Koch Brothers network in that way.

 

[JohnEngelman]

You should not trust any organization of the Koch Brothers network in that way.

The lies of Rush Limbaugh were documented as early as 1994.

https://fair.org/home/the-way-things-arent/

Have the lies of The American Enterprise Institute been documented?

 

[Politruk]

The lies of Rush Limbaugh were documented as early as 1994.

https://fair.org/home/the-way-things-arent/

Have the lies of The American Enterprise Institute been documented?

Yes.

 

[YDB95]

The Bell Curve is one of my favorite books. It has been denounced. It has never been disproved.

That depends on exactly what you mean by "disproved". What definitely has been proven is that Murray and Hermstein misused statistical methods, cherrypicked their facts, and even made mathematical errors. Also, it is standard procedure for a book that represents an academic study to be distributed in galley proofs for peer review before the book is released. Murray did not do that; he sent only a select few copies to recipients of his choosing - a clear sign that he had little if any confidence in the work standing up to scrutiny.

Of course, when you say "it has never been disproved", you probably mean nothing has ever convinced you that it's wrong. That's hardly the same thing.

I am unaware of any evidence that those assertions are not true.

That is because you choose to stay that way.

This is a good experiment because it can be repeated, and it is double blind. Charles Murray is denounced with irritable emotions. His assertions can be documented with scientific fact after scientific fact.

Wrong. (See above re: peer-reviews - Murray himself knows his work wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.)

 

[JohnEngelman]

That depends on exactly what you mean by "disproved". What definitely has been proven is that Murray and Hermstein misused statistical methods, cherrypicked their facts, and even made mathematical errors. Also, it is standard procedure for a book that represents an academic study to be distributed in galley proofs for peer review before the book is released. Murray did not do that; he sent only a select few copies to recipients of his choosing - a clear sign that he had little if any confidence in the work standing up to scrutiny.

Of course, when you say "it has never been disproved", you probably mean nothing has ever convinced you that it's wrong. That's hardly the same thing.



That is because you choose to stay that way.



Wrong. (See above re: peer-reviews - Murray himself knows his work wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.)

How did Murray and Hernstein misuse statistical methods, cherry pick their facts, and make mathematical errors?

Name some books of that nature that have been peer reviewed. Steven Jay Gould's book The Mismeasure of Man is often considered the be a refutation of The Bell Curve. It was not peer reviewed. It is generally acknowledged that Gould falsified evidence of average racial different brain sizes to claim that there are no differences. It is also acknowledged that the races do differ in average brain size, and that brain size correlates with intelligence.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Yes.

Where, how, and by whom have the lies of the American Enterprise Institute been documented.

 

[YDB95]

How did Murray and Hernstein misuse statistical methods, cherry pick their facts, and make mathematical errors?

1. Chance magazine, Vol 10 Issue 1 (1997), p. 20-21
2. Journal of Political Economy, Vol 3, Number 5 (October 1995)
3. Bernie Devilin et al, Intelligence, Genes and Success: Scientists Respond to The Bell Curve (1997)
4. And probably the best place to start: https://bolesblogs.com/1998/03/23/a-review-of-the-bell-curve-bad-science-makes-for-bad-conclusions/ (Note this article makes a lot of the points we have repeatedly made in response to you, most notably that IQ is not a reliable measure of intelligence and that Murray's conclusions about nature vs. nurture do not stand up at all to the evidence.)

Steven Jay Gould's book The Mismeasure of Man is often considered the be a refutation of The Bell Curve.

Lest we forget, Gould's book preceded The Bell Curve by over a decade. You're probably referring to the updated edition, which did contain two new chapters refuting The Bell Curve.

It was not peer reviewed.

True, and that's a fair criticism here as well.

It is generally acknowledged that Gould falsified evidence of average racial different brain sizes to claim that there are no differences.

No it isn't. That is a criticism that has been made, but that doesn't make it "generally" anything.

It is also acknowledged that the races do differ in average brain size, and that brain size correlates with intelligence.

Wrong.

 

[JohnEngelman]

1. Chance magazine, Vol 10 Issue 1 (1997), p. 20-21
2. Journal of Political Economy, Vol 3, Number 5 (October 1995)
3. Bernie Devilin et al, Intelligence, Genes and Success: Scientists Respond to The Bell Curve (1997)
4. And probably the best place to start: https://bolesblogs.com/1998/03/23/a-review-of-the-bell-curve-bad-science-makes-for-bad-conclusions/ (Note this article makes a lot of the points we have repeatedly made in response to you, most notably that IQ is not a reliable measure of intelligence and that Murray's conclusions about nature vs. nurture do not stand up at all to the evidence.)

Explain this in your own words. If you can't do this, you do not understand it. The Bell Curve proves what has always been obvious: intelligence is the single greatest factor in academic and economic success; intelligence is mainly determined genetically; people in some races are more likely to be intelligent than people in other races.

For over a century IQ tests have proved their ability to predict the ability to learn complex skills and knowledge quickly and well.

 

[Politruk]

Explain this in your own words. If you can't do this, you do not understand it. The Bell Curve proves what has always been obvious: intelligence is the single greatest factor in academic and economic success; intelligence is mainly determined genetically; people in some races are more likely to be intelligent than people in other races.

For over a century IQ tests have proved their ability to predict the ability to learn complex skills and knowledge quickly and well.

The Bell Curve:

Far more crankish, though, was The Bell Curve's further conclusion in the third and fourth parts of the book that innate intelligence plays an important role in the different socioeconomic statuses of differing ethnic groups in the United States. Arguing that intelligence is inherited in large part, and that the average intelligence of different ethnic groups can thus be assessed, the book then concludes that different ethnic groups have varying levels of intelligence, and certain groups are poor or unfortunate mainly because they are not as smart as others.[10] (Many early, knee-jerk criticisms in the media latched onto this point without addressing the rest of the book.)

Further compounding the errors made earlier on, this section of the book rather clearly hearkened back to the long tradition of "scientific racism." Herrnstein and Murray here rely on the biologically invalid concept of race, building on their already shaky neo-eugenic foundation of the "cognitive elite." A Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) review noted:


[TR]
[TD]“”Anyone who flipped through the footnotes and bibliography of Murray and Herrnstein's book could see that there was something screwy about their sources. And there is hardly a proposition in their book that had not been thoroughly debunked more than a decade ago by Stephen Jay Gould's classic work on the pseudoscience behind eugenics, The Mismeasure of Man.[23][24][/TD]
[/TR]

A good deal of research cited in this section of the book was found to have been funded in part by the Pioneer Fund, which was infamous for its advocacy of eugenics.[25] There's really no subtlety to this. Notably, one of the sources cited favorably multiple times was J. Philippe Rushton, a crank psychologist who claimed "Mongoloids" were the more intelligent "race" (followed by the "Caucasoids" and then the "Negroids") and believed penis size to be inversely correlated with intelligence.[26] The Bell Curve's conclusions on race and intelligence has been debunked by prominent behavioral scientists.[27][28]

 

[Politruk]

That this thread got diverted from religion to race indicates the salience of White Christian Nationalism in America.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The Bell Curve:

Far more crankish, though, was The Bell Curve's further conclusion in the third and fourth parts of the book that innate intelligence plays an important role in the different socioeconomic statuses of differing ethnic groups in the United States. Arguing that intelligence is inherited in large part, and that the average intelligence of different ethnic groups can thus be assessed, the book then concludes that different ethnic groups have varying levels of intelligence, and certain groups are poor or unfortunate mainly because they are not as smart as others.[10] (Many early, knee-jerk criticisms in the media latched onto this point without addressing the rest of the book.)

Further compounding the errors made earlier on, this section of the book rather clearly hearkened back to the long tradition of "scientific racism." Herrnstein and Murray here rely on the biologically invalid concept of race, building on their already shaky neo-eugenic foundation of the "cognitive elite." A Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) review noted:


[TR]
[TD]“”Anyone who flipped through the footnotes and bibliography of Murray and Herrnstein's book could see that there was something screwy about their sources. And there is hardly a proposition in their book that had not been thoroughly debunked more than a decade ago by Stephen Jay Gould's classic work on the pseudoscience behind eugenics, The Mismeasure of Man.[23][24][/TD]
[/TR]

A good deal of research cited in this section of the book was found to have been funded in part by the Pioneer Fund, which was infamous for its advocacy of eugenics.[25] There's really no subtlety to this. Notably, one of the sources cited favorably multiple times was J. Philippe Rushton, a crank psychologist who claimed "Mongoloids" were the more intelligent "race" (followed by the "Caucasoids" and then the "Negroids") and believed penis size to be inversely correlated with intelligence.[26] The Bell Curve's conclusions on race and intelligence has been debunked by prominent behavioral scientists.[27][28]

I have already explained how Stephen Jay Gould falsified brain measurements to claim that the various races had the same average brain sizes. Modern efforts to measure brain sizes confirms that the races have different average brain sizes, and that brain size correlates with intelligence.

 

[Politruk]

I have already explained how Stephen Jay Gould falsified brain measurements to claim that the various races had the same average brain sizes.

You did not explain; you lied.

 

[JohnEngelman]

You did not explain; you lied.

How did I lie?

 

[Politruk]

How did I lie?

You said in post #52 that "A number of scientists used Morton's skulls and methods and concluded that it was Gould, rather than Morton, who falsified results," but you cited no proof, and Gould was never a dishonest scientist. You lied.

In fact, you seem to have gotten the whole thing from Metapedia, a site which has yet to post any truth on any debatable or controversial point.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I approve of this. Trump is also working to punish anti Jewish bias.

Trump is callously using the "protect the Jews" blather to desensitize the American public about "disappearing undesirables".

To achieve this goal, Trump has partnered with Israeli strongman Benjamin Netanyahu to redefine "antisemitism" to include "any criticism of the Israeli government, any criticism of Israeli war crimes and any criticism of genocide/ethnic cleansing in general".

#ButButTheHolocaust

 

[YDB95]

Trump is callously using the "protect the Jews" blather to desensitize the American public about "disappearing undesirables".

To achieve this goal, Trump has partnered with Israeli strongman Benjamin Netanyahu to redefine "antisemitism" to include "any criticism of the Israeli government, any criticism of Israeli war crimes and any criticism of genocide/ethnic cleansing in general".

#ButButTheHolocaust

I don't know that I would give Trump and Benji even that much credit. It's already been the case for a long time in many (if not most) circles to accuse anyone who criticizes Israel of anti-Semitism.