TPE: Alternative Realities

[Etoile]

I still get nervous every time I say my D/s relationship is a TPE relationship. I think that some people on this board, when I say that, think "how can that be, she is poly and it's a long-distance relationship, how can that be TPE?

The reason I get nervous is because I don't have an answer for them. I don't know how to make our version of TPE make sense to other people. I sometimes wonder if I'm deluding myself, and it's not really TPE, but what is "really" TPE? I don't know.

I know we've discussed it over and over, but I still don't have an answer. Please tell me about what TPE means to you.

 

[Netzach]

I don't like to gnaw on totality. H is mine, like my house, cat, car, or computer. I can fuck with any aspect of his existence I choose, or none at all. I can calmly tell him "thank you very much, it's been lovely, don't call" and do it with no sense of obligation, guilt, or lack of closure - things present in a relationship among peers.

Friendly, yes. Friends, yes, but that has to be maintained with caution and calculation. Lovers, no. He's a very valued possession, but a possession.

The moment I feel a sense of partnership or partnerdom TPE is taken off the table as a way of relating. I know that works for some people, but it would never function for me in a way I could consider ownership.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I have my own definition of TPE that's really similar to yours, Etoile and seri.

I obviously don't live with the men I date and they are "Domly" in different ways. But the moment we are together, whether it's on the phone or in the same room, the power exchange occurs. And it's not all about sex. It's about the kind of men they are and how they make me feel in their presence. I have little hesitation submitting to confident, trustworthy, ethical men or women (Shadowsdream, for example) and not neccessarily in a sexual way.

I know others define TPE differently than I do. But I think that real TPE is what is real to the individual. What and how I live is real to me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it means different things to different people and for different reasons. For us it is about my choice to give up my power in the relationship in more than a tokenistic way which means I cannot choose to withdraw consent when the mood takes me or I decide I have had enough, nor do I have the freedom to walk out the door permanently or even temporarily when things don't go my way. It also means it is within his power to do whatever he chooses to me as I am owned by him...it isn't about whether I approve or want him to do those things, or whether I like the way our life is on a daily basis, though thankfully for the most part I do. Once I gave that consent to hand over all power to him I knew there was no possibility of reversing it for any reason, no matter how unfair or important it might seem to me.

I am fine with it not being the same for others, but one of the reasons we clicked from early days was because we both wanted and felt a TPE relationship for us would be a lifetime commitment in terms of my adherence to its terms, and for him also a lifetime commitment in terms of his feeling it his responsibility to adhere to its terms as agreed. The only way it could part ways are through death or his selling or giving me away permanently which he says will not happen, but I see as a point he is within his rights to change his mind on. For this reason it is why I never accepted a collar from anyone before him and why he never offered one before me...for both of us it had to be a lifetime commitment which the colla would be a symbol of.

I get tired of being told 'yes, but legally you could leave' because this is nothing to do with legal, that is reserved for marriage and other mainstream type relationships...it is a commitment we made which is not recognised by the law so why should I resort to the law when the going gets tough? If I wanted the reality of knowing I could leave, or I could object and refuse anything I didn't like, I would have remained as I was playing with various people for the physical release and experience only. I also get frustrated by the view that it then must mean you do whatever you are ordered without any thought, any difficulty or hesitation, and always with a smile on your face otherwise you aren't truly TPE....that is done to try and disprove something others don't understand IMHO. There are many times I cannot automatically obey in a way which satifies his needs, the decisive moment though is that I acknowledge it is an order and as such I must do my best to comply or find a way of making that possible, even if it means asking for his help in getting me there in whatever way he or we feel will work, and however long that might take. Contrary to the view it takes a brainless idiot to participate in a TPE relationship, I think it requires quite the opposite because you need to understand the meaning and reality of the agreement on all levels to be able to participate and maintain the relationship.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

Please tell me about what TPE means to you.

Okay.

Total power exchange means that one individual has ceded control over every aspect of his/her life to another individual.

Control, to me, means that one person obeys the other. Not "is strongly influenced by" and not "usually defers to." Obeys.

There are no carve-outs for children, employment, finances, etc., and the one being controlled does not set any limits on physical or other activities in the relationship.

This is not the same thing as micromanagement, because the Dominant may delegate considerable responsibility for handling details in many aspects of the controlled person's life.

But this is also not the same thing as: "Oh, well, I have a TPE relationship so I guess my Dominant could give me orders relating to my kids or job, but I just know he never would." In my book, control means he actually does.

Per my definition, neither poly nor LDR would be precluded in a TPE relationship. But the Dominant would maintain control over when & where the controlled person moves and would also maintain control over whether & how the controlled person interacts with others in personal relationships.

For the record, I do not believe this means that the one being controlled is an automaton or a brainless twit.

I also don't believe that TPE is the zenith, the ultimate, the most laudable expression of D/s or BDSM. It's just one flavor of personal relationship, which suits the specific needs of those involved. The "ultimate", for any individual, is whatever works best for him or her.

 

[D's mariposa]

In our case, I have given him control over everything except for one thing, which I'll go into in a moment. This means that sometimes he pushes me to do things that I didn't think I could do. It's not always comfortable or easy, but he's an intelligent man and wants whats best for us. I'm not talking about pushing limits in a scene (though he does do that! Fireplay anyone? ).

As an example, I had 5 year flirtation with corporate America and when I left, I was looking for similar work even though I didn't like it. He encouraged me to try merchandising, which he was doing. Merchandising requires skills that I didn't have and a lot more personal organization than I possessed, as well as being able to figure out the tax code. Which requires a lot of patience and concentration. (About half of my jobs are done as an independent contractor, so I have to do all that FICA crap myself.) I thought I would fail at it, so I didn't want to try. But I did, and it worked out, and I wouldn't want to do anything else. So yes, I trust my Master to the point, that to some extent, he has some control in my employment. Two of my companies, I work for them, and he stays out of it aside from "I'd like to do something special on this day. Can you arrange your schedule so that you have it free?" Usually, I'm able to do it. This is one of the beauties of merchandising. I set my schedule. As long as everything is done by my deadline, my bosses don't care when I get it done. Also, we frequently do jobs as a team. Guess who's in charge of the team? With one exception, it isn't me! And that exception is only because it's an area where I have more experience.

Total power exchange means that one individual has ceded control over every aspect of his/her life to another individual.

There are no carve-outs for children, employment, finances, etc., and the one being controlled does not set any limits on physical or other activities in the relationship.

We do have a carve out for my family, but this is the only exception. For several years, before Master and I met, I lived with my sister's family. We all rented my grandma's house together when she couldn't live on her own anymore. It served several purposes. It gave grandma more income, the house was rented by someone trustworthy who wouldn't trash the place, I was able to live in a MUCH safer area of town than I would have been able to afford on my own. Also, my then brother in law was seriously ill, and my sister needed a hand. We worked opposite shifts and took care of him and my niece together for 5 years. Eventually, they separated, and I met my Master and moved in with him, but my niece and I missed each other something fierce. We still saw each other a lot during the week, but it wasn't the same. We were concerned about the Munchkin, and my sister suggested that one day a week (currently Sunday) is our day. He has no input into Munchkin day. He did not negotiate with my sister or my niece for control in this area of her life. Because he cannot ethically exert control over the kiddo, he rarely exerts control over our days. Now, we do invite him to come with us when we're doing something that day that he'd enjoy, like the zoo or the Botanical Gardens, and I do defer to him on those days. (Like getting him drinks, being sure he is served before me and such). But when it's me and the kid; it's me and the kid. As I said above, I don't have the right to negotiate a control issue over my niece, and he has not done it with her mother. So in this case, the child's needs take precedence over ours. The only other time he does something Masterful is when He says something like "You're still coughing a lot, do something inside today. Don't get cold."

I also don't believe that TPE is the zenith, the ultimate, the most laudable expression of D/s or BDSM. It's just one flavor of personal relationship, which suits the specific needs of those involved. The "ultimate", for any individual, is whatever works best for him or her.

The last bit I do agree with. Just because a TPE works better for Master and I, doesn't mean it works for snowy and her Person.

 

[Netzach]

There are no carve-outs for children, employment, finances, etc., and the one being controlled does not set any limits on physical or other activities in the relationship.

Eh, not determined by the slave anyhow. I leave H to parent and handle his family as he knows in that regard. I really have no interest in getting mired there.

 

[serijules]

Eh, not determined by the slave anyhow. I leave H to parent and handle his family as he knows in that regard. I really have no interest in getting mired there.

That last line about sums up a lot for my relationship. There are parts of my relationship...huge parts...that D just isn't interested in controlling. Could she? Yes. Does she? No. Not because she can't, simply because she isn't interested in getting that involved with that aspect of my life at this time. That doesn't make the control any lesser.

I consider my relationship TPE because while I have much control of things in my life, D COULD change them if she chose to and would be obeyed. One great example is our long distance status as of right now. She wants me there 24/7, as do I, but she has chosen to allow me to fulfill other responsibilities in my life right now. If she told me to turn my back on those responsibilities and move to her, I would. It would cause some problems in our relationship because emotionally I would have a hard time walking away from those responsibilities and she would end up having to deal with that (because we are, remember, human ), so that is something she considers into her decision.

TPE doesn't mean that the person under the control vetos their emotions, reactions or feelings.

TPE doesn't always mean the Dom doing exactly what the Dom wants with no regards to how it will affect their property and their relationship.

TPE is not about the choices that are made, but the power to MAKE those choices.

D has the power to demand I quit my job, leave my elderly grandparents in the last few years of their life, sell my house, rehome my dogs whom I am very attached to (she's allergic) and move to be with her. She chooses not to because she has a great deal of respect for me and my family. The power to order me to do those things still exists, and our relationship is one in which I would obey the order. That is TPE. Distance does not impact it. That same situation could exist even if I lived in the same city as she does.

Other examples:

D and I are not lovers. We have an Owner/slave relationship and sex enters the picture, but we are not lovers. I am a lesbian and at times very much long to have someone in my life that I have a romantic relationship with. However, D has control of my body, my sexuality and my attention. I don't touch without her permission. I don't orgasm without her permission. I don't pleasure others without her permission. She is to be my primary focus in my attention and time. When she wants something done, I am to be available. Can you see the problem with having a romantic relationship with another woman under these restrictions?

Another example: I often dream of being a mother. I can't easily have children for health reasons and a lot of expense and help from the medical community; money that could be spent with the goal of moving to be with her. A child would interfere with our relationship and service of her. If I wanted to persue having a child or adopting, I would need to discuss this with her, get her permission, and respect her decision. It isn't my choice to make. (and to be honest, it isn't a choice I want to make any longer as I believe that my inability to have a baby naturally exists for a reason. It's just a good example for this thread). That is TPE.

Yet another example: I have control over my finances, household and job in the sense that I don't ask her permission for every choice I make, but she is involved in my life in the sense that she knows what is going on and has the power to veto any choices I make that she feels are not the right ones or ones she agrees with. I recently sold my home, bought a different one and made some major changes to my business. All things that will in the long run, make moving to be with her easier when the time comes. I didn't ask permission directly to do any of these things because D trusts me to make decisions with our future in mind, however, she was aware of the changes and had she ordered me to make other choices at any time, I would have. She has the power to choose for me, even if she chooses not to do so.

That is Total Power Exchange.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. Our relationship is "poly" (I use the word lightly as we don't call it poly but for conversations sake, it's simply easier to use the word despite our dislike of it) and is long distance. Neither of these things impact the power exchange as a whole. It certainly calls for adjustments in HOW the power is exchanged so to speak, but it doesn't change the nature of the exchange or the effectiveness of it. The other people in D's life have no direct impact on me or on our relationship, and I have no say in their existance or involvement. There are times when I would prefer that there were less people in her life because I myself am not "poly" but that is not my choice to make and is none of my business. I don't even know very much about some of the other people in her life, and some I am very close to and consider family. She decides what I know, how well I know them and what interaction I have with them. She however, knows everyone in my life and also decides how much interaction I have with them.

That too, is TPE.

*phew* That is more about my life and my relationship than I have ever put in one post, but this topic is an important one to me because I feel that L/D and 'poly' are so often misunderstood, especially in regards to TPE. I hope that gives some of the doubters a bit of insight into the other side of the opinion.

 

[Netzach]

That last line about sums up a lot for my relationship. There are parts of my relationship...huge parts...that D just isn't interested in controlling. Could she? Yes. Does she? No. Not because she can't, simply because she isn't interested in getting that involved with that aspect of my life at this time. That doesn't make the control any lesser.

I consider my relationship TPE because while I have much control of things in my life, D COULD change them if she chose to and would be obeyed. One great example is our long distance status as of right now. She wants me there 24/7, as do I, but she has chosen to allow me to fulfill other responsibilities in my life right now. If she told me to turn my back on those responsibilities and move to her, I would. It would cause some problems in our relationship because emotionally I would have a hard time walking away from those responsibilities and she would end up having to deal with that (because we are, remember, human ), so that is something she considers into her decision.

TPE doesn't mean that the person under the control vetos their emotions, reactions or feelings.

TPE doesn't always mean the Dom doing exactly what the Dom wants with no regards to how it will affect their property and their relationship.

TPE is not about the choices that are made, but the power to MAKE those choices.

D has the power to demand I quit my job, leave my elderly grandparents in the last few years of their life, sell my house, rehome my dogs whom I am very attached to (she's allergic) and move to be with her. She chooses not to because she has a great deal of respect for me and my family. The power to order me to do those things still exists, and our relationship is one in which I would obey the order. That is TPE. Distance does not impact it. That same situation could exist even if I lived in the same city as she does.

Other examples:

D and I are not lovers. We have an Owner/slave relationship and sex enters the picture, but we are not lovers. I am a lesbian and at times very much long to have someone in my life that I have a romantic relationship with. However, D has control of my body, my sexuality and my attention. I don't touch without her permission. I don't orgasm without her permission. I don't pleasure others without her permission. She is to be my primary focus in my attention and time. When she wants something done, I am to be available. Can you see the problem with having a romantic relationship with another woman under these restrictions?

Another example: I often dream of being a mother. I can't easily have children for health reasons and a lot of expense and help from the medical community; money that could be spent with the goal of moving to be with her. A child would interfere with our relationship and service of her. If I wanted to persue having a child or adopting, I would need to discuss this with her, get her permission, and respect her decision. It isn't my choice to make. (and to be honest, it isn't a choice I want to make any longer as I believe that my inability to have a baby naturally exists for a reason. It's just a good example for this thread). That is TPE.

Yet another example: I have control over my finances, household and job in the sense that I don't ask her permission for every choice I make, but she is involved in my life in the sense that she knows what is going on and has the power to veto any choices I make that she feels are not the right ones or ones she agrees with. I recently sold my home, bought a different one and made some major changes to my business. All things that will in the long run, make moving to be with her easier when the time comes. I didn't ask permission directly to do any of these things because D trusts me to make decisions with our future in mind, however, she was aware of the changes and had she ordered me to make other choices at any time, I would have. She has the power to choose for me, even if she chooses not to do so.

That is Total Power Exchange.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. Our relationship is "poly" (I use the word lightly as we don't call it poly but for conversations sake, it's simply easier to use the word despite our dislike of it) and is long distance. Neither of these things impact the power exchange as a whole. It certainly calls for adjustments in HOW the power is exchanged so to speak, but it doesn't change the nature of the exchange or the effectiveness of it. The other people in D's life have no direct impact on me or on our relationship, and I have no say in their existance or involvement. There are times when I would prefer that there were less people in her life because I myself am not "poly" but that is not my choice to make and is none of my business. I don't even know very much about some of the other people in her life, and some I am very close to and consider family. She decides what I know, how well I know them and what interaction I have with them. She however, knows everyone in my life and also decides how much interaction I have with them.

That too, is TPE.

*phew* That is more about my life and my relationship than I have ever put in one post, but this topic is an important one to me because I feel that L/D and 'poly' are so often misunderstood, especially in regards to TPE. I hope that gives some of the doubters a bit of insight into the other side of the opinion.

This makes total sense to me. I also don't get too involved in H's professional life. His success and frustrations and sheer hours spent there are better under his own direction and better done with minmum interference from me.

When it comes to dating others, orgasms, wardrobe choices, diet, and a whole host of other things, I do have and exert influence. As I choose to do.

I don't really like the moniker "TPE" though. Ownership pretty much covers it for me - and I maintain the right to be totalitarian, non commital, and all shades in between about how much control I excercise. Owned property isn't entitled to expectations.

 

[the captians wench]

All I can say seri is wow. I always admire your enthusiasum.

You know, I really don't put much thought into defining things like is this TPE, or am I sub or slave, and so on. Infact i think I put even less thought into such things than Jounar does sometimes. But like a lot of things in this world, I think it's all a matter of state of mind.

seri has the mind frame that everything she does is ultimitly decided by her owner in one way or another and there for she lives TPE. And the same for some others around here. Cat comes to mind with her arguements against the whole "leagally you could still" comments.

I personally don't think I fall into TPE simply because neither of us are in the state of mind to believe that we are TPE. Rather than giving me orders, 90% of the time he presents things to me as a discussion. He gives me a choice to either present why I might have issues with said task, or to just jump up and do them. And most of the time this fits better for us because he really likes to push me but because of some issues that I have, doing some of the tasks he would like me to do would best be preformed with some on near me to re asure me and prevent potential psycological damage.

Does this mean that i say no to anything that I want to avoid doing? Absolutely not. And if he still insisted that he wanted me to do something that i voiced concern about, I would do it. But most of the time, the concern I have is in his best interest to follow. One example is his rule about not wearing undergarments. I voiced a concern about not wearing a bra to work (a notion that's all fine and good for an a or b cup gal, but not some one who's as busty as I am). I'm working on a promotion, one of the reasons being so that I can travel more, namely visit him on a regular basis. Presenting myself in a less than professional mannor would not help me to achive said permotion, and would prolong my visit to him. There for he desided as long as I was working durring day hours, or times when the dm was comming in, I could wear a bra. But i did go a couple of days with out one before he came to this desicion.

I think for me to fully let go of everything, I would have to be at the very least in the same country as he is. But again that's just my hang up. I could see TPE totally working in LDR, but probably not for me.

I've never denied him anything, but then he's never presented something to me in a way where it was just do it, there's always been a lot of discussion before trying anything and he gets my feelings on things before deciding if we will try it or not. Sort of a way to measure the potential damage against the potential pleasure I guess.

Also for me, I could not give such power to some one whom I wasn't in love with. I give myself because I love him. Not to say that that's better or worse than any one else, just that's me.

I think I've lost all since of form in this post and I know I've lost my train of thought. I'm sorry, it's been a long day.

 

[Kailey_86]

In a TPE relationship the pyl has no choice. They give consent in the beginning to longer have to give consent from then on(if that makes sense). They obey. That's it.

If i am going to enter into a TPE relationship, there has to be a certain level of trust. Limits, likes, dislikes, and expectations have to be discussed and understood completely.

 

[catalina_francisco]

In a TPE relationship the pyl has no choice. They give consent in the beginning to longer have to give consent from then on(if that makes sense). They obey. That's it.

If i am going to enter into a TPE relationship, there has to be a certain level of trust. Limits, likes, dislikes, and expectations have to be discussed and understood completely.

But then once you enter TPE, you have given away your power and so for me anyway, any previous limits etc., become null and void if he so chooses, otherwise I am still in possession of my power to not do what I don't want to. It is interesting travelling the path to fully recognising that though.

Catalina

 

[Kailey_86]

But then once you enter TPE, you have given away your power and so for me anyway, any previous limits etc., become null and void if he so chooses, otherwise I am still in possession of my power to not do what I don't want to. It is interesting travelling the path to fully recognising that though.

Catalina

i agree. All limits become null and void. For me, i don't really want the power of choosing not to do something that i don't want to. i feel like i no longer have choice unless it is given to me. That's why i say that everything must be discussed beforehand. This way the Dom could decide to be nice and not have me do something that He knows i don't like. If He wants me to do it anyway, i will. i wouldn't like doing it but i would be happy that i am pleasing my Master.

 

[liberatedslave]

My Sir & I are in an LDR (not for long now - check the ticker ) plus he is very new to D/s. I think TPE is definitely where we'll end up though. I do belong to him but Sir is reticent about exercising too much control at this stage. We've talked about a collar for me & i think that'll happen when we move in together. Sir & I are growing into us & our D/s. When we're both ready for it, I'll truly be owned by him. It is a huge step & there'll be no going back so we're not going to rush into anything.

 

[JMohegan]

From RJ's thread:

To answer your question, Cat: no, I would not kill for my Daddy. I'm not going to dance around the issue...the answer is no! I knew that as soon as I read the question.

So it has left me wondering, though, perhaps I am not really a slave after all, if there is something I would not do. Another thing I would not do is leave my wife. Long ago Daddy promised that she and I could manage our relationship as we saw fit, without interference. So I guess I would see that as "permission to disobey" and again, maybe I'm not a slave after all. I don't think it makes my relationship less TPE because I wouldn't leave her...I just think it is a special poly person's approach to TPE.

But I wonder if, because my answer to the "would you kill" question is unequivocally no, whether that means we have something less than TPE. Because I would refuse outright, rather than try problem solving operations. I don't know.

Another promise Daddy made to me was that e would never ask me to eat meat, simply because e's not interested in controlling that - as long as I eat properly, I can arrange my habits how I choose. And yet if e decided to order me to cease being a vegetarian, I would do it...I guess because it would be within the confines of our relationship, and the only person really affected is me. (I would also try to lift osg's 400-lb weight, if I were told to.)

I guess I am not sure myself if Daddy and I are TPE. This is probably where I should bow out of the conversation...either to think it over more, or to re-read my "alternate realities" thread, or something.

I am not the BDSM dictionary. You are not the BDSM dictionary. Nor is anyone else.

The truth is: There is no BDSM dictionary.

We are talking about love and sex and human relationships. In many ways it is absurd to try to pin these things down into words or concepts that have any meaning beyond the reality of interactions between two unique human beings.

I am a big fan of definitions and the idea that words should have meanings that can be explained in a reasonable way by those who use them.

But that's not the same thing as arguing for universal definitions of words that I can not find in Webster's, or words such as "slave" that have been taken out of Webster's and used in an alternative way.

 

[Etoile]

I am not the BDSM dictionary. You are not the BDSM dictionary. Nor is anyone else.

The truth is: There is no BDSM dictionary.

We are talking about love and sex and human relationships. In many ways it is absurd to try to pin these things down into words or concepts that have any meaning beyond the reality of interactions between two unique human beings.

I am a big fan of definitions and the idea that words should have meanings that can be explained in a reasonable way by those who use them.

But that's not the same thing as arguing for universal definitions of words that I can not find in Webster's, or words such as "slave" that have been taken out of Webster's and used in an alternative way.

You make a good point, but remember that one of the reasons for labeling yourself is so that other people can understand who you are. A lesbian is a woman who loves, dates, has sex with, marries, etc. with women, right? You and I can both agree on that. We have the same definition. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part, that is what a lesbian is. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God, right? Maybe once in a while an atheist believes in something other than God, but pretty much all atheists don't believe in God. We can agree on that too. But why are there no similar definitions in BDSM? Why do we always have to explain "what this label I have chosen actually means to me" when we tell someone else what we are? (I don't know the answer to this, maybe you don't either...maybe there is no answer.)

 

[serijules]

You make a good point, but remember that one of the reasons for labeling yourself is so that other people can understand who you are. A lesbian is a woman who loves, dates, has sex with, marries, etc. with women, right? You and I can both agree on that. We have the same definition. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part, that is what a lesbian is. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God, right? Maybe once in a while an atheist believes in something other than God, but pretty much all atheists don't believe in God. We can agree on that too. But why are there no similar definitions in BDSM? Why do we always have to explain "what this label I have chosen actually means to me" when we tell someone else what we are? (I don't know the answer to this, maybe you don't either...maybe there is no answer.)

In my opinion the words we are using don't actually really, well, exist. We've taken the Webster definitions and molded them into a lifestyle that isn't really recognized and accepted (like religion or sexual identity is) by the rest of the world. If you twist something hard enough, it's not likely going to spring back to its original shape. Words and their definitions are no different. We've twisted them to make them flexible enough to fit all the nooks and crannies our lifestyle is so fond of...we can't really have it both ways.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I dunno, I think there are definitions, but for various reasons people like to shift them around. I know when I first began seriously investigating it all, it seemed most people agreed on a general definition of the main words, but as time passed, others started saying they didn't have to mean that exactly because it was up to the people involved. I'm not sure why it took a turn like that except perhaps the habit some have of comparing themselves to others, measuring things in term of value, and began feeling insecure in that they felt others might be better or worse, more or lesser than them....so make the terms all generic in a vague sort of way and then it seems to keep it all more evenly based in their eyes.http://www.smiliemania.de/smilie132/00000124.gif I think it also could be a sign of the times where a lot of people want to be seen as all things to all people and do not want to define anything incase it gets them jumped on...much safer to be vague then you can fit into wherever it feels safer at the time.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/370373746_1deb3c8211_t.jpg Catalina

 

[eastern sun]

transforming a marriage into TPE

My husband and I have entered a Total Power Exchange after being married for almost 20 years. I have never felt I had the freedom to leave him, having taken my vows literally many years ago. The most significant difference today is that he now has full responsibility for decision-making for the family and expects me to make things happen as per his instruction.

We have a long history of relating to each other. Sometimes I don't do what he asks me to do. Sometimes I try and fail, sometimes I procrastinate and fail. And when I fail to do what he asks, I am usually punished in both subtle and scorching disappointment.

If it weren't for the toys in our bedroom and the layers of sexuality that infuse our relationship, we would be living a fairly traditional - even ancient - married life.

It has made me a better wife.

 

[Etoile]

I've seen a lot of people refer to TPE as an "ancient" or historical practice. I kind of think of it differently...because in olden days, women didn't give themselves to their husbands so much as just automatically belonged to them and served them. It was the status quo, and it wasn't something they got to choose, especially in cultures that had arranged marriages. I think modern TPE, where partners choose each other and one makes the free choice to give up freedom, is more powerful.

But this thread is about different perspectives on TPE...thank you for sharing yours, eastern sun!

 

[SweetErika]

Etoile, I hope you won't mind if I asked a few TPE-related questions. If you, or anyone else, does, please disregard this, or let me know if you think it requires a new thread.

Was anyone here reluctant to do TPE, or did you have any fears about it? If so, why, and how did you resolve that/them?

Did you have it from the beginning of the relationship, or was it something you moved to over time?

What, if anything, did you need to feel comfortable with TPE (in addition to the regular "good relationship stuff")?

All perspectives are welcome, and answer as many questions as you'd like and are applicable.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Was anyone here reluctant to do TPE, or did you have any fears about it? If so, why, and how did you resolve that/them?

It was something I both wanted and feared, but being who I am, it was the only way I saw as possibly working for me in terms of a long term D/s relationship. Finding someone who felt the same, was willing to talk about it in depth, and was able to make me feel secure helped a lot in minimising the fear though it still lurks at times.

Did you have it from the beginning of the relationship, or was it something you moved to over time?

It wasn't there from day 1, but was a goal we were planning to move toward over time. I sort of jumped the schedule up a bit when I offered it very shortly after we met and married and after his being satisfied I had gone away and thought it through well at his instruction, he accepted my offer to commit to it at that early stage.

What, if anything, did you need to feel comfortable with TPE (in addition to the regular "good relationship stuff")?

I guess for me it was something I could approach because I had lead a full life on my own with my children for around 16 years, had survived situations where most didn't, had owned my own home successfully and built a new life and career for myself which flourished, and the inner knowledge I did not need to do this to survive or be taken care of...I did it because I wanted to. The other thing which helped it seem comfortable was being with someone who also had an inner strength which had been tried under extenuating circumstances where most would crumble....and had a deep code of honour which was in some part cultural, and through his every day interactions showed me how seriously he took his responsibilities and ethics, especially in terms of being the male head of the family...it was a role he had held since childhood and had always agonised over whether he always did the right or proper things in terms of this which to me showed a man who understood those close to him and felt it important he be there as their tower of strength on more than a purely ego level. Poor man, he now has me to deal with as well as his totally all female family...drives him nuts when everyone needs him at the same time, but he manages to juggle it beautifully.



Catalinahttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/358217376_43ab2fa9aa_s.jpg

 

[eastern sun]

the "ancient" nature of TPE

It's funny. . . I most think of the "ancient" nature of a TPE relationship when I am doing something I wouldn't have chosen for myself, when I'm feeling some resentment about the amount of work I've been asked to do, or when I'm suddenly struck as I walk through the world by the very profound feeling that I "belong" to my husband and have to work out whatever petty or difficult problem has come up. In other words, in those moments when I don't feel like I have control over my actions, my choices, my day, my fate.

On the other hand, I totally agree with you, Etoile. I feel spoiled by the fact that I can choose to be in this relationship. That I was able to choose my husband. (And in that choice was able to put myself in the hands of someone I deeply trust to act in my best interests.)

I live in an immigrant neighborhood in Brooklyn, where the nature of my relationship (without the sexual kink) is common, familiar. I can laugh with Bengali and Chinese women who speak very little English and don't want to assimilate into this American culture, because we share an understanding about the nature of marriage and our "obligation" to our husbands.

I love the way in which my kinky relationship with my husband has allowed me a better understanding of women from different cultures and different times. It has fed my soul, my art and my belly.

 

[Pure]

Jmohegan: Total power exchange means that one individual has ceded control over every aspect of his/her life to another individual.

i understand what it means if A has power over B, and, perhaps, if B has arranged that it be so. i never have understood the "exchange" part.

Etoile saidI've seen a lot of people refer to TPE as an "ancient" or historical practice. I kind of think of it differently...because in olden days, women didn't give themselves to their husbands so much as just automatically belonged to them and served them

point taken. it used to be B's dad that arranged for her to be under her husband, A's power. now B herself arranges to be under A's power. B's dad, of course, may have made an exchange: he gets the 10 goats, the hubby gets A's daughter to use as he sees fit.

as to what B gets for going [of her own accord, in our times] under A's power; some say 'love', some say 'security'. if that's so, then B has "exchanged" love or security for power over her life.

 

[JMohegan]

You make a good point, but remember that one of the reasons for labeling yourself is so that other people can understand who you are. A lesbian is a woman who loves, dates, has sex with, marries, etc. with women, right? You and I can both agree on that. We have the same definition. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part, that is what a lesbian is. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God, right? Maybe once in a while an atheist believes in something other than God, but pretty much all atheists don't believe in God. We can agree on that too. But why are there no similar definitions in BDSM? Why do we always have to explain "what this label I have chosen actually means to me" when we tell someone else what we are? (I don't know the answer to this, maybe you don't either...maybe there is no answer.)

The main problem I see is the absence of a universally accepted authority figure.

Pretty much everybody takes Webster's, Random House, and American Heritage Dictionaries to be accepted and unassailable sources on the meaning of words in the English language.

There is no comparable authority in the BDSM world. People argue over the meaning of these words all the time, and in the absence of a universally accepted system of arbitration or Supreme Grand Poo-bah of BDSM, we all must accept the fact that your definition is no better than mine, and vice versa.

This doesn't bother me in the least. I know what I do, and why I do it. Nothing else is really relevant in the grand scheme of things.