Top-opolis

[rosco rathbone]

I would say "sound and fury signifying nothing", Quint but i'd just be playing teacher's pet.

Right on the money, teacher's pet.

 

[Pure]

O (f) "signifies nothing"

--what a coincidence!

 

[Quint]

I would say "sound and fury signifying nothing", Quint but i'd just be playing teacher's pet.
I really think that the female O in the context of the decidedly unloving rough sex we like...is the paradox of our times.
What do YOU think?

It's hard to say from my own personal, rarely-orgasmic perspective. I don't cum unless there is concentrated effort made for strictly that purpose--if I don't have the vibrator on during fucking, it won't happen. Easy enough to control.

I'd say in my case it's generally a tool for motivation and just enough pain transcendence to withstand whatever else he is doing to me. Not coming for extended periods of time leaves me hungry and more willing to please. It's one reward among many--the other day, I got a sticker like what a gradeschool teacher would put on a high-scoring test that said "Well done!" for taking it like a good girl.

I really wonder about the multiorgasmic woman and how that factors into their hatemaking. Most of the time I'm highly envious, but I think it would be too complicated to resolve that paradox, as you say.

Then again, any good dominate master knows how to take any circumstances and twist them to his advantage.

 

[Netzach]

Purpose?

Like everything has to have a purpose? What is this, Samuel Gompers meets Pauline Reage?

IF there's a purpose, I think it's a giant karmic Oreck vacuum for boy Qi and furtive lust.

And, solo, it's just fucking fun.

 

[Pure]

Here's a bigger but related question.

female sexual/sensual desire:

is it represented/depicted in pornographic or erotic writing? can (or should) it be? how is it represented, depicted, shown, indicated? have even the women writers of porn for women (writers who are lesbian) solved this problem? could they?

Consider a fully realized, literary example, _The Story of O_, written by a women indicates very little of her, O's, desires, and nothing of her "O" (orgasms). The author, in interview, says she wrote it for the enjoyment/gratification of her male lover; apparently that was done, creatng a mildly pornish (lacking many graphic details), and kinkily erotic classic.

 

[Queen Bee]

O

I really wonder about the multiorgasmic woman and how that factors into their hatemaking. Most of the time I'm highly envious, but I think it would be too complicated to resolve that paradox, as you say. (Quint)

See, this whole line of thought really puzzles me. I know it's considered simpleminded these days to think of sex as a goal-directed activity, but it is for me. I come easily and often, so perhaps my perspective is skewed, but for me orgasms are an end unto themselves. Their purpose is to feel fantastic, nothing more, nothing less.

I have rough, brutish sex because I get off on it. The struggle and resistance and conquest lend ferocity and psychological satisfaction to the orgasm. If I wasn't getting off, I wouldn't bother with it.

What's interesting to me is the suggestion that in Topopolis, orgasms are a special treat or reward, or otherwise dismissed as irrelevant. In my household, orgasm control takes another form: When I've come many times already, and am sore and sweaty, all I want to do is go to sleep and I can't bear the prospect of coming again. But he makes me anyway, because he thinks it's funny to see me filled with wounded outrage or sullen resignation about having to have another orgasm. It's infuriating.

It's crueler (and hotter) to make you like something you don't want than it is to deny you something you do want.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Re: O

What's interesting to me is the suggestion that in Topopolis, orgasms are a special treat or reward, or otherwise dismissed as irrelevant. In my household, orgasm control takes another form: When I've come many times already, and am sore and sweaty, all I want to do is go to sleep and I can't bear the prospect of coming again. But he makes me anyway, because he thinks it's funny to see me filled with wounded outrage or sullen resignation about having to have another orgasm. It's infuriating.

It's crueler (and hotter) to make you like something you don't want than it is to deny you something you do want.

Couple of vibes on this: I personally am in revolt against the sexual zeitgeist of my formative years, ie How To Make Love To A Woman. I get a big rebel-kick out of the "Who gives a fuck 'how it was for you', bitch?' " thing.

If I was intercourseing with someone who nutted easily and with little input from me other than "doing what I do", I'd probably find it charming and endearing. BUT sometimes....wait, no, many times, I'd also want to interrupt the comfortable pattern, for reasons that are sadistic, contrarian, experimental and above all controlling.

Not too long ago, I rubbed (what I imagine as) a Writerdom style orgasm out of a girl whose ass I had just beaten, as she lay across my lap. It was offhanded, amused,idle for me; shameful for her--"you can't help having your little girly-spasm after such a bit of rough-handling, name-calling and forcible mistreatment? what a pig."

That's the kind of orgasm-giving I can go for.

All a matter of taste anyway.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I like the idea of spitting casually into the girl-mouth, and orgasming there just as casually. Expectoration between parted lips as ejaculation-analogue, oral ejaculation seen as "spitting" with all that implies-an energetic expression of contempt. For the penis-mouth to ejaculate sperm into a waiting mouth with this same burst of ejaculatory energy that a man uses to spit on the sidewalk as an expression of contempt.

 

[Pure]

OK.,

then is it correct to say, of these fleshy multi-bowled spitoons, that, like their O's, their desires are not to be represented in porn/erotica?

 

[rosco rathbone]

OK.,

then is it correct to say, of these fleshy multi-bowled spitoons, that, like their O's, their desires are not to be represented in porn/erotica?

The representation of the female orgasm has never had any resonance to me, personally.

 

[Pure]

OK, and how about the rep'n of female desire?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: O

What's interesting to me is the suggestion that in Topopolis, orgasms are a special treat or reward, or otherwise dismissed as irrelevant. In my household, orgasm control takes another form: When I've come many times already, and am sore and sweaty, all I want to do is go to sleep and I can't bear the prospect of coming again. But he makes me anyway, because he thinks it's funny to see me filled with wounded outrage or sullen resignation about having to have another orgasm. It's infuriating.

It's crueler (and hotter) to make you like something you don't want than it is to deny you something you do want.

I can relate to this line of thought somewhat, but it is surprising how quickly you forget and want to expereince that pain/pleasure factor all over again.

Catalina

 

[rosco rathbone]

My psychosexuality and fantasy life are inseperable from the mental realms of dark humor and verbal play-probably the reason I post my thoughts to this particular website. The idea, for instance, of forcing someone to take hold of my penis in that weird overhand style that Oliver Twist used to hold his porridge-spoon and to ask "please Sir, may I have some more?" in a pleading little-boy,English accent is both hilarious to me-and very stimulating. Or any number of other preposterous scenarios. The last time I performed an act of bdsm upon someone, I actually found myself talking in a fake English accent about "chastisement" (cribbed from Barry Lyndon , which I find extremely funny.)

I cannot read Sade except as humor, which makes it more psychosexually piquant, not less (in small doses).

I have been finding that, as I discover my inner self, my tastes lean farther and farther towards performing acts of causing-humiliation upon the subjekt rather than acts of causing-pain.I find this closely tied in with my sense of humor.

Surely a psychoanalyst would have something to say about shame (mine) and the function of humor.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Subjekt? or objekt?

 

[evesdream]

objekt subjekted. or subjekt objekting?

 

[Netzach]

Well, being laughed at in a not-nice fashion is a particularly scathing experience that almost all of us have lived through at some point, only some more than others.

There's nothing quite as fun as letting go of that sweet, ringing, from the chest, from the belly laughter in the middle of a scene with a guy who could use it.

The kind of laugh that can't be mistaken for anything gentle or compassionate.

"I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing AT you."

That's probably my equivalent of spooging, spitting, pissing and farting in the face of, it's somehow, to me, even if to me only, the edge of contempt, the edge itself.

 

[Pure]

OK, N, I can see that.

OTOH, just as many of us have been there we've learned about
'sticks and stones'. I haven't experienced being the object of laughter, but I think its effect would be entirely dependent on context, perhaps, for instance, the presence of others.

Also, though I'm just guessing, I think there has to be an objective situation that's degrading. A ritual, perhaps, such as RR has cooked up. If I were just sitting in a chair, with one of those kids propeller hats, I think laughter would 'run off as with the duck's back. I definitely have found this with words; to be called any of the usual 'bottomish' things --slut, etc.-- does not really have much effect.

J.

 

[Pure]

.

 

[Netzach]

OK, N, I can see that.

OTOH, just as many of us have been there we've learned about
'sticks and stones'. I haven't experienced being the object of laughter, but I think its effect would be entirely dependent on context, perhaps, for instance, the presence of others.

Also, though I'm just guessing, I think there has to be an objective situation that's degrading. A ritual, perhaps, such as RR has cooked up. If I were just sitting in a chair, with one of those kids propeller hats, I think laughter would 'run off as with the duck's back. I definitely have found this with words; to be called any of the usual 'bottomish' things --slut, etc.-- does not really have much effect.

J.

Well, those are all cliches. They work for some of us, for others they don't. It's not that the cliche fans are less complex or subtle, I think they are also usually into *ritual* in a more serious way.

Although the propeller beanie thing, that would get under my skin. You're a tough little bastard to crack, I bet.

 

[Pure]

'a tough little bastard to crack, '

Hey I got 6 ins and a hundred pounds on ya. Not so little.

I think the key to 'reaching' anyone is creativity, unless both are simply re-enacting a favorite porn scene.

By the way, care to say anything about 'crack'-- one of the taboo topics in the bdsm forum (sensitive doms don't so it; well, I mean they don't do it to the subs!).

J.

 

[catalina_francisco]

By the way, care to say anything about 'crack'-- one of the taboo topics in the bdsm forum (sensitive doms don't so it; well, I mean they don't do it to the subs!).

J.

Mmmmm.....crack as in Irish humour? I love it. ....crack as in Australian lingo? I try not to do it......crack as in the whip?....Oooooh most definately love that sound, and all that goes with it.....crack as in the drug? Well as I am not into drugs and booze, and never have been (I'm so boring I don't even see a reason I should try a joint), I am not likely to be trying that or wanting to involve it in a scene or relationship.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Cracking?

I dunno. I like the ritualistic nature of humiliation within parameters, the challenge to me is not always pushing past the boundaries but exploring the weirdest parts of the box. Or turning the box completely upside down.

 

[Pure]

OK, I kinda gettya, but leave aside this 'box' stuff, the metaphors, etc.

If you are speaking of 'cracking' a bottom, or causing him/her to 'crack', what do you mean? why do you enjoy it?

I've been assuming the word indicated something as in the little story: "The interrogation proceeded, yet the prisoner kept denying involvement. Then in the twelfth hour, a new team was brought in; after a few introductory measures I won't detail, they resumed questioning, and the prisoner cracked and revealed the whole truth about his crime."

J.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I met Philip Roth for my birthday and had drank vodky shots with him and the frostbite-toeless Stalingrad survivor who runs his favorite Russian restaurant. Actually he doesn't drink, so we did all the shotting. I am still in shock.

 

[Netzach]

Are you saying my metaphors are lame and obtuse?

If I were to put a guy in a beanie propeller and make him face the wall and recite all the times he thought about panties and jerking off in them this week, I would be hoping for the following response.

Neither "water off a duck's back"

Nor shellshock, animosity and resentment for the rest of my days.

Something in between. An erection. A flush to the cheek. A nastiness that curls his toes. A respect for the nonflinching nature of the nasty names I'd call him and the nasty things I'd want him to do.

Why?

Why do cats play with their food? Why do grasshoppers hop? I'm designed that way.

I'm dying to hear about meeting Philip Roth. I remember reading Portnoy's Complaint, especially the early childhood trauma and wanking, and thinking "that's ME!"