Top Author

[Freewheel]

Today, i sent a message to one of the top authors on Literotica. the message was praise and compliments for the story. i did, however, find grammatical errors in the story. The author did not thank anyone for editing the story or even proofing the story. i totally enjoy reading the stories. i voluntered to proof the stories if the author wished. the author replied in the harhest way, insulting my inteliengence, and totally blew me out of the water.

i replied, no offence given, didnt disrespect you or the story, so was totally surprised by the reply.

Then later, then replied fuck you. i had not said one negative word. WTF?


i'm blown away.

 

[Freewheel]

top author

I rarely post anything here so i was totally blown awany by this well known author.

 

[KeithD]

This isn't the New Yorker, nor is it set up to be a critique site. Unless someone has asked you to criticize their story, you're being a vigilante of unknown training and experience yourself and assuming the author welcomes some stranger's criticism on the technicals when they may just be wanting to share their storytelling and/or arousal (since this is an erotica site) with others. If you look around in the discussion board, you'll see that it's very hard to obtain editorial help here and even if you do, the one providing the "help" may not know any more about proper English useage than the author does.

If you enjoyed the story and if you aren't asked to critique the technicals, you might just have found that a simple "enjoyed your story" or just moving on without giving your "help" is your best thanks for someone who has done what they were able to do to share and entertain.

That you were compelled to bring the issue to the board indicates to me that this is more about you and your need to "instruct" than the author who has done the creative work. Sorry, but, although I probably would just ignore your "help," I have sympathy for the author here.

 

[Emirus]

Comment creates reaction

I rarely post anything here so i was totally blown awany by this well known author.

Every writer likes to be praised for their work. I certainly do. Some writers will accept constructive criticism but what you consider constructive they may not and pointing out grammatical errors, as you perceive them, would not usually be considered constructive criticism, even if correct. So you have to be careful and even then you can get it wrong.

There is an author on here who, over a period of some years, has published 113 stories 105 with a red H. So I would think everyone would say he’s a popular author. I left a public comment, at the end of a story, a few months ago saying that I didn’t think his latest story was up to his usual high standard. This resulted in an angry reply. He subsequently deleted his and my comments.

You can imagine my surprise when, a few days later, I received an apology via private message. He said he had read public comments I’d left on some of his other stories (I haven’t read all 113) and realised my comment was intended as constructive and apologised for blowing his top. Several months later I received a message, completely unexpected, thanking me for constructive comments on his stories. How many authors would do that? Needless to say we are now friends with an agreement to correspond about each other’s work. Grow from little acorns springs to mind.

So what you think is helpful won’t necessarily be seen by the other person in the same way. Finally, you made a big mistake in offering to proof read his stories. You should have limited your message to praise. If he wants you to proof read he’ll ask you.

 

[Kantarii]

If all I ever received was comments of praise, I would never strive to improve my writing. I suspect the top author you reached out to only cares for praise. None of my stories are perfect and I certainly have never refused any aurthor in the AH who has offered me advice on how to improve.

To the OP: I wouldn’t sweat it. Move on and let him be. That’s sound advice. Just keep in mind that you reached out to him, not the other way around.Kant

 

[kurrginatorX]

Today, i sent a message to one of the top authors on Literotica. the message was praise and compliments for the story. i did, however, find grammatical errors in the story. The author did not thank anyone for editing the story or even proofing the story. i totally enjoy reading the stories. i voluntered to proof the stories if the author wished. the author replied in the harhest way, insulting my inteliengence, and totally blew me out of the water.

i replied, no offence given, didnt disrespect you or the story, so was totally surprised by the reply.

Then later, then replied fuck you. i had not said one negative word. WTF?


i'm blown away.

I have received critiques such as that which you gave this author, and I have striven to be humble enough to accept said critique with a word of thanks. I am constantly proofreading as I write, but things get past even the best of us simply because the brain sees what we want it to see. I think you did the right thing, and if you enjoy his stories, please don't allow his dick comments to you throw you off reading his future submissions. Separate the work from the author.

 

[KeithD]

We don't really know what was actually posted by either. This is a one-sided description. So we have no idea that there were any "dick comments" at all.

 

[SimonDoom]

I respectfully disagree with KeithD's view on this subject, as I have before.

My view is that the tools on this Site create an implied license to use them. Authors know readers have tools to comment on their stories, and they should expect comments. I see no reason why a reader can't point out technical errors. I appreciate such comments as an author. I personally WANT readers to make whatever comments they see fit to make so long as they're courteous about making them.

An author who does not want to receive such comments is free to ignore them, as KeithD suggests. That's a perfectly acceptable and reasonable response.

Everyone, authors and readers, should exercise courtesy, discretion, and judgment in making comments or responding to them. A good general rule to follow all the time is: Don't be an asshole. You can never go wrong if you follow that rule.

Freewheel has not reproduced the actual exchange with the author, so it's hard to judge for certain, but it sounds to me like the author was way out of line, as long as Freewheel's comments were made politely.

 

[KeithD]

Freewheel has not reproduced the actual exchange with the author, so it's hard to judge for certain, but it sounds to me like the author was way out of line, as long as Freewheel's comments were made politely.

You base that on what one side has posted. You don't give the benefit of the doubt to a fellow Literotica author. I see.


And, yes, we disagree on unsolicited vigilante criticism on Literotica and on what I see as a false assumption that everyone is posting stories here to receive writing critique from an unvetted stranger.

 

[ChasingAnna]

OP, I'm not sure what purpose airing this here really serves.

What we have is your impression of a discussion with some unknown author. We don't really have enough to go on to even begin to help you understand how all this went down.

If you are simply dismayed that some people get hyper sensitive about commentary on their work, Yeah, I get that. It sucks, but what can you do?

If you are feeling hurt by their response, try not to take it to heart. You know how you meant it, but there will be such conflicts on any website.

If you would like to help people proof stories, check out the editors lounge. I know I'd never say no to a free copy editor.

Just on the off chance you are fishing for some excuse to name and shame the author (I don't think you are, just covering the bases) don't. Not here and not by PM to any third parties. If it's bad enough you have to tell someone, report it. We don't need that laundry aired here.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Today, i sent a message to one of the top authors on Literotica. the message was praise and compliments for the story. i did, however, find grammatical errors in the story. The author did not thank anyone for editing the story or even proofing the story. i totally enjoy reading the stories. i voluntered to proof the stories if the author wished. the author replied in the harhest way, insulting my inteliengence, and totally blew me out of the water.

i replied, no offence given, didnt disrespect you or the story, so was totally surprised by the reply.

Then later, then replied fuck you. i had not said one negative word. WTF?


i'm blown away.

Speaking as somebody who used to do this kind of thing: I recommend not doing this kind of thing.

If you see a street artist drawing portraits, would you stop to tell them "you've got the proportions wrong on that one"? If you hear a busker, would you stop to tell them about the wrong notes they played and offer your services as a music teacher?

Criticism is an important part of improving one's skills, but it's very dependent on timing and situation. At work, when I'm giving feedback, I try to be conscious of stuff like:

- Is this person in the right frame of mind to hear this now? If they've just had a shitty day, and they're already feeling small, maybe now is not the time to tell them about the mistake they made in their report.
- Does this person actually want the kind of improvement I'm offering? Obviously they need to be competent in their job, but if they're not aiming to become a programming whiz, maybe I shouldn't be trying to make them into one; instead, my criticism should focus on the things that are important to them.
- Do we have the kind of relationship where they're willing to listen to my feedback? If I try to give programming tips to the guy who's been programming since before I was born, I will need to be very very diplomatic about how I approach that.
- Is this person going to be able to use the feedback? There's not much point in teaching them what they did wrong with XYZ if they're never doing XYZ again.
- How does this person learn best? Different people, different learning styles.

When you message a random person on the internet, you don't know any of this information. For all you know, they just lost their job and their hamster died, and your PM arrived at a time when they were feeling fragile. That doesn't do anybody any good.

If you want to help strangers with feedback on this kind of thing, a better option is to volunteer your services on the editors' forum. There is no shortage of authors who want proofreading, without needing to go offering it to those who haven't asked.

Also... I don't usually point this kind of stuff out without invitation, but since it may be relevant to your experience, I'll say it: your posts here have quite a few spelling/punctuation/grammar errors. Just in this thread, I can see at least seventeen things that I would be red-penning if I was in "professional editor" mode. I can imagine an author taking it amiss if they were criticised on this kind of issue by somebody who hasn't got their own house in order.

 

[10NadNuder]

In response to KeithD's post, I must say, "2 out of 3 ARE bad... Or at least wrong."

No, they didn't ask for the criticism, but I'll bet many (who post stories here or, like me, do not) also write things, both complete & not, without posting them. You post them here, & make me able (&/or invited) to read them? Then I'm going to. I get this is a site where people are not posting writings for $ (why some also send them to Amazon or something), but I'd think they are posting them here to give the reader(s) some sort of reaction, & I for one find I have issues with that when names change, sentences are run-on, etc.

Also, don't tell me an editor is hard to find. With many stories where I have found many issues each, I have mentioned this & also offered to be the person's editor. I have yet to get anyone asking, & IIRC, the vast majority of the responses I've gotten to my comments have been vulgar attacks on me &/or assumptions about me.

 

[KeithD]

A. The point is that what you think a writer wants here is no indication of what a writer wants from posting their stories here. It's you making unfounded assumptions. B., I don't think you read much of the discussion board to be thinking that editorial help isn't hard to find at Literotica. Posters frequently complain about this. And, C., from the condition of your post, I just have to say that I don't think you should be offering anyone editorial help here. (And if you rail at having pointed that out, you sort of destroy your argument. )

 

[ChasingAnna]

In response to KeithD's post, I must say, "2 out of 3 ARE bad... Or at least wrong."

No, they didn't ask for the criticism, but I'll bet many (who post stories here or, like me, do not) also write things, both complete & not, without posting them. You post them here, & make me able (&/or invited) to read them? Then I'm going to. I get this is a site where people are not posting writings for $ (why some also send them to Amazon or something), but I'd think they are posting them here to give the reader(s) some sort of reaction, & I for one find I have issues with that when names change, sentences are run-on, etc.

Also, don't tell me an editor is hard to find. With many stories where I have found many issues each, I have mentioned this & also offered to be the person's editor. I have yet to get anyone asking, & IIRC, the vast majority of the responses I've gotten to my comments have been vulgar attacks on me &/or assumptions about me.

If the vast majority of responses you get are upset at your behavior, at a certain point you should consider that your behavior may be the issue.

I don't know what you said or how you said it, but if it's multiple authors having an issue with one commenter, we kind of have to look at the common thread here.

 

[Bill_Cosplay]

Today, i sent a message to one of the top authors on Literotica. the message was praise and compliments for the story. i did, however, find grammatical errors in the story. The author did not thank anyone for editing the story or even proofing the story. i totally enjoy reading the stories. i voluntered to proof the stories if the author wished. the author replied in the harhest way, insulting my inteliengence, and totally blew me out of the water.

i replied, no offence given, didnt disrespect you or the story, so was totally surprised by the reply.

Then later, then replied fuck you. i had not said one negative word. WTF?


i'm blown away.

The guy is an asshole. Why? Because a "No, I don't want your offered services," would have worked just fine. He's not wrong to say no to you, but that's how an asshole says no.

It's like Russel Crowe: Hell of an actor, but he's an asshole.

Who was it?

 

[8letters]

Today, i sent a message to one of the top authors on Literotica. the message was praise and compliments for the story. i did, however, find grammatical errors in the story. The author did not thank anyone for editing the story or even proofing the story. i totally enjoy reading the stories. i voluntered to proof the stories if the author wished. the author replied in the harhest way, insulting my inteliengence, and totally blew me out of the water.

i replied, no offence given, didnt disrespect you or the story, so was totally surprised by the reply.

Then later, then replied fuck you. i had not said one negative word. WTF?

i'm blown away.

You probably made a mistake that I'll discuss later, but otherwise I think you did the right thing. Personally, I'd be thrilled to get such a message.

I don't know if this is just me, but I much prefer to receive grammar/spelling corrections in a PM instead of a comment. To me, comments should be discussing the story as a whole. So sending the PM was the first thing you did right.

Now, you have to understand that every story will have spelling and grammar errors. Professional articles and novels have spelling and grammar errors. It personally pisses me off when I get a comment where the only thing the commenter thought worth noting in a 20K+ word story is that I made a spelling or grammar error. So IMHO the spelling and/or grammar issues need to pass a certain frequency threshold before they are worthy of noting.

I'll assume that the grammar errors passed that threshold for you. Next, I'd suggest that if you are going to criticize an author's grammar, criticize one regularly-occurring issue. A list of different one-time grammar/spelling errors does nothing for me. If it's a one-off mistake, I'm not going to worry about it. If it's an error I'm likely to repeat in the story I'm currently writing, then I'll care. If there's not one regularly-occurring issue, then you might say "You make too many minor grammar errors" or "You make too many spelling mistakes".

That being said, another thing I thought you did right was to offer a lot of praise in addition to your criticism. Pure criticism puts people on the defensive.

The most important thing that you did right was offer to proofread for the author. The offer IMHO shows that you are genuinely trying to help. I love it when people proofread my stories before I publish them. If you made that offer to me, I'd take you up on it. OTOH, it annoys me when someone criticizes the inevitable grammar/spelling errors in one of my stories, but makes no offer to help.

So you hit an author on a bad day. Don't let it upset. Keep reaching out to authors. Keep offering to help writers. Being a porn writer is a lonely business.

 

[rae121452]

Today, i sent a message to one of the top authors on Literotica. the message was praise and compliments for the story. i did, however, find grammatical errors in the story. The author did not thank anyone for editing the story or even proofing the story. i totally enjoy reading the stories. i voluntered to proof the stories if the author wished. the author replied in the harhest way, insulting my inteliengence, and totally blew me out of the water.

i replied, no offence given, didnt disrespect you or the story, so was totally surprised by the reply.

Then later, then replied fuck you. i had not said one negative word. WTF?


i'm blown away.

sad to say, you might also consider the option that the author in question is an out and out jerk. it would be nice if people lived up to how we view their work but i rarely find that that is true. for example, there was a country star in the 80's that i followed, cd's, concerts, all of it. i then accidentally met him and he was a rude, abusive s.o.b. to everyone around him. after telling him how much i like his singing he made some remark to the effect of "you and a million other people." i still listen to his cd's but i have a totally different view of the person.

continue reading and enjoying the stories, just be aware that they are written by someone who is an ugly person. there's a lot of that going around.

 

[HeyAll]

I've had emails pointing out my errors.

If they leave an email, I thank them and fix it right away.

Usually it doesn't come with an email attached.

in the past few years my stories have been edited a lot cleaner, so i get less of those.

 

[tangledweed]

You cannot control the actions of others, so you just have to move on.

This thread interests me because I am all over the map when it comes to comments on stories and feedback sent to authors. I found that feedback was surprisingly well received by some very good writers, but then I mostly gave positive feedback for what I considered exceptional work.

I struggle with offering constructive criticism via comments vs feedback, as I don't want to dampen the writer's enthusiasm. However constructive it may feel to the person giving it, the receiver of the criticism still has to hear how someone thinks they could be better.

I made a similar offer of providing a proof read to an author who I though showed a lot of potential and whose stories I really enjoyed. I doubt I could be as creative as the writer if I tried, but I have an eye for detail and sincerely wanted to help. .

I considered volunteering as an editor on Literotica, but I selfishly wanted to limit myself to a writer that I enjoyed reading. I spend enough time reading stories and complaining that I will have stick my toe into that area eventually.

 

[jaF0]

the author replied in the harhest way, insulting my inteliengence, and totally blew me out of the water.

i replied, no offence given, didnt disrespect you or the story, so was totally surprised by the reply.

Then later, then replied fuck you. i had not said one negative word. WTF?


i'm blown away.

MYOB?

 

[KeithD]

The basic problem here is this is an anonymous amateur site. It's somewhere between impossible and very difficult to obtain validation of users giving critique and offering "help." There's no telling what their training/experience/knowledge is in giving help. Vigilante "help" is, more often than not, just unsupported seeking of attention by those wanting to take an unearned superior position.

When considering taking unsolicited critique, at least take a look at whether they have stories here themselves and how good they are doing (and, in reading their stories, making your own determination about their writing expertise--they've made it about yours). Beyond that, when they give the "rules" or "everyone does" guidance for anything, look to see if they've sited an actual writing authority on the issue.

MYOB if you haven't been asked for help is, yes, the best bet on an amateur sharing site such as this. Assuming what the writer wants in terms of feedback is assuming too much and if you get zapped, you asked for it. They are giving you unsolicited feedback back.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I've seen both sides of the coin, from a reader and author position.

Most authors I contacted were friendly enough, even when I had the audacity of pointing out the occasional error or typo. Without one such conversation, I would never have started publishing my works here.

I'm incredibly thrilled should someone find it in them to write a comment or mail. Granted, most of the time it's along the lines of "can we get more please", but even that can be incredibly motivating.

As long as the tone is civil, I see no harm in at least reading what they have to say. Typos, missed words and the likes are easy to deal with. Reader gets a "thank you", I'll edit out the mistakes, everyone wins. As for "improvements" and suggestions... all are read, the valid ones are filed for future use. I politely thank the person who spent some of their time on me and explain, if applicable, why/how their idea does or doesn't fit into my work. Why be a dick about it? It's not like I'm drowning in mail to begin with and potential attention whores should be easy enough to spot and they leave soon enough once they realize their grand plan for my story does not come to pass.

 

[KeithD]

*sigh* You . . . people . . . just . . . don't . . . get it. You make false assumptions on why others post stories here.

The arrogance of A. assuming that everyone posts stories here to have some unvetted stranger, without being requested to, instruct them on how to write and B. those unvetted strangers assuming they are the ones with the training, need, and "right" to give unsolicited instruction to others posting stories here never ceases to astound me.

 

[Kantarii]

The whole process of editing and resubmitting work on this site takes too long. Many times, I put an extra week into editing my work before I post it. A lot of times, I catch a great deal of my own mistakes. Still, there are some that get by me. Anyway, once the story is posted, others are going to catch mistakes I made. Now, if I could wave a magic wand and fix the shit at the drop of a hat, I would. As it is it takes a week or more on resubmitting an edit to a chapter before the correction is updated. It’s not the best way. That’s just how this site is run. Many of the authors don’t even bother to go through that process. I mean, why bother? We aren’t paid and it takes forever to make corrections, end of story. Kant

 

[yukonnights]

*sigh* You . . . people . . . just . . . don't . . . get it. You make false assumptions on why others post stories here.

The arrogance of A. assuming that everyone posts stories here to have some unvetted stranger, without being requested to, instruct them on how to write and B. those unvetted strangers assuming they are the ones with the training, need, and "right" to give unsolicited instruction to others posting stories here never ceases to astound me.

I hear what you're saying. But as you correctly pointed out; this is an amateur web site which, for better or worse, has been set up for interaction between the author and the readers. Most authors know they can disable comments, and should if they don't want them. Most readers assume they can comment and express their opinions. Ironically, there's a good bit of discussion on and off in the Authors Forum about the dearth of comments to views ratio. I think we've all had some "head scratcher" comments, and I've been called some pretty derogatory names by some readers. I just cock my head sideways, once again ponder the condition of the human race and delete it so others need not have their enjoyment interrupted.

While your point is valid, I can understand and accept how a casual reader might not. What I can't understand is that an author would feel the need to strike back, or even really be offended by a casual comment made by a stranger. At the end of the day, if it were only those qualified to offer professional level comments/suggestions, there would be no reason to even have the option to do so since comments would very scarce.