Tools of the Trade #3 - Your Most Hated Words

[SimonDoom]

Here's a link to a very short but useful article on the use of dialogue tags, and it makes a good empirical and logical case for using "said" and "asked" rather than more descriptive synonyms. In published fiction, 70% of the tags used are "said" and "asked."

https://prowritingaid.com/grammar/1008121/Nonstandard-Dialogue-Tags

 

[MrPixel]

I'm going to take these recommendations under advisement. I feel moderately strongly that how something is being said is important, that the context is not always conveyed in the words being said by themselves. I will, however, review the flow for when the descriptive synonym is forced or awkward, following the advice that "said/says" is transparent to most readers especially when it is clarifying who said what when dialog has more than two participants.

My editor happens to agree with my style about this. Most of her career was with full-blown book publishers, so I'm predisposed to following her assessments.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

I'm going to take these recommendations under advisement. I feel moderately strongly that how something is being said is important, that the context is not always conveyed in the words being said by themselves. I will, however, review the flow for when the descriptive synonym is forced or awkward, following the advice that "said/says" is transparent to most readers especially when it is clarifying who said what when dialog has more than two participants.

My editor happens to agree with my style about this. Most of her career was with full-blown book publishers, so I'm predisposed to following her assessments.

I checked the first few pages of what I've written till now (and my prose is dialogue heavy - 250 lines of them). Just under half of my lines of dialogue are not tagged at all (there might be some indications in what people say, like the name of the other person), another 30 percent is not tagged, but usually preceded or followed by an action of the person talking (which can be just nodding, sighing, smiling, blushing, or leaning back in their chair). The remaining lines, less than a quarter, have explicit verb-tags, and of those slightly over 60 percent are "said".

Just to say, not using 'said' doesn't mean you need to use another talky-shouty verb. Though since this is Literotica, we might take a lesson from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and use 'ejaculate' as tag a little more.
https://thetaleofsirbob.blogspot.com/2013/07/watson-and-other-excitable-characters.html

 

[IARainman]

Not so much a word, as usage.

Problems with plurals- Drives me crazy to hear “there’s lots of men.”

Can I buy a participle? - “They should have went and gotten laid.” (Even worse when it’s “shoulda”, or should of”)

I really dislike the use if “ask” as a noun and “up” as a verb.

I fully realize language is fluid, which is why I don’t” correct “ these things, they just make me cringe. Same reason I gave up on using “podium” when you mean “lectern.”

Oh, and the one I just read, using “whom” to sound proper without understanding a dative concept “whom at XYZ Corp should be invited?”

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm going to take these recommendations under advisement. I feel moderately strongly that how something is being said is important, that the context is not always conveyed in the words being said by themselves. I will, however, review the flow for when the descriptive synonym is forced or awkward, following the advice that "said/says" is transparent to most readers especially when it is clarifying who said what when dialog has more than two participants.

My editor happens to agree with my style about this. Most of her career was with full-blown book publishers, so I'm predisposed to following her assessments.

Here's a piece of constructive criticism. I read your story "Off Campus" to see how you handle dialogue tags.

Nobody in published fiction handles dialogue tags this way. Nobody. I guarantee you. If you have an editor who claims to deal with published authors, that person is not being straight with you. I challenge you to find examples of published fiction in which dialogue tags are handled this way. You won't find any.

When I read through the tags, I am puzzled why you think your substitutions are better than the word "said." I can't figure it out. You are telling, not showing, and you are doing so in a way that seems contrived and showy and intrusive. It would read better if you either got rid of the tag altogether or replaced your verb with "said."

Here's an example:

"Well, shit," I complain.

If the statement is a complaint, there's no need to use the verb "complain." It adds nothing. It's redundant. And if you feel the need to gild the lily with the verb "complain," then it means you have not written the dialogue in a way that gets the point across. The words speak for themselves. You trample on the words when you use a dialogue tag to tell the reader what to think about those words.

Your tags are showy and call attention to themselves, and that's exactly what you do NOT want with dialogue tags. The sole purpose (most of the time) should be to let readers know who's talking, and not to intrude upon the dialogue and call attention to your (the author's) opinion about what's being said. Let the words and the narrative, not your dialogue tags, carry the load.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I checked the first few pages of what I've written till now (and my prose is dialogue heavy - 250 lines of them). Just under half of my lines of dialogue are not tagged at all (there might be some indications in what people say, like the name of the other person), another 30 percent is not tagged, but usually preceded or followed by an action of the person talking (which can be just nodding, sighing, smiling, blushing, or leaning back in their chair). The remaining lines, less than a quarter, have explicit verb-tags, and of those slightly over 60 percent are "said".

The last time this topic rolled around (exactly the same reason, overblown speech tags), I counted my usage across several stories, and found I was very consistent, and similar(ish) to you: 60% - 70% not tagged at all, with the speaker evident from the action or the to-and-fro in the dialogue, or the next sentence; twenty percent or so, "said" or "replied"; probably too many "whispered", but hey, it's always quiet and peaceful when they get to have sex; and a scattering of descriptive tags, but not many.

What bugs me most about the overuse of descriptive speech tags are those that a voice can't do - a voice can't shrug, for example, but that one turns up a lot. There's usually poor punctuation going with it, so it's a double cringe.

 

[MillieDynamite]

And, if, that, so, even, the, a, and other glue words are an issue at times. Also, I fall in love with a word and overuse "it" (Damn, there's another one) in a story.


Yes, I'm joking, sort of!

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Well, another problem is, well, that my prose is like an oilfield. Full of wells.

(and people sighing).

 

[MillieDynamite]

Um, well, oh, my! I get it, me too.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

OK OK OK, calm down, phew, breathe out, breathe in. You allright? Well, what I want to say, you see, is that, well, writing like people talk, you know, it ain't that easy, if you want to, well, like, keep the flow, know what I mean?

 

[SimonDoom]

I checked the first few pages of what I've written till now (and my prose is dialogue heavy - 250 lines of them). Just under half of my lines of dialogue are not tagged at all (there might be some indications in what people say, like the name of the other person), another 30 percent is not tagged, but usually preceded or followed by an action of the person talking (which can be just nodding, sighing, smiling, blushing, or leaning back in their chair). The remaining lines, less than a quarter, have explicit verb-tags, and of those slightly over 60 percent are "said".

Just to say, not using 'said' doesn't mean you need to use another talky-shouty verb. Though since this is Literotica, we might take a lesson from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and use 'ejaculate' as tag a little more.
https://thetaleofsirbob.blogspot.com/2013/07/watson-and-other-excitable-characters.html

This sounds fairly normal. Nobody is advocating that every single line of dialogue requires the word "said." If you have an exchange that involves four or five lines of dialogue, you probably need to use "said" only once or twice.

The basic idea is: use "said" or "asked" just often enough to make it clear who is speaking.

Sometimes no tag is needed at all. It's clear from the context who is speaking. If Sam says, "Hi John" then there's no need to follow that line with "Hi Sam," John said. "Hi Sam" will do, because we know that it's John who is replying without the tag.

Sometimes a line of narrative will make it clear who is speaking.

Example:

"Hi John," Sam said.

John looked up, annoyed.

"Hi, Sam."


But, regardless, there's seldom a good justification for something like:

"Who cares?" he shrugged.

Most accomplished writers will tell you that's not good writing.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

This sounds fairly normal. Nobody is advocating that every single line of dialogue requires the word "said." If you have an exchange that involves four or five lines of dialogue, you probably need to use "said" only once or twice.

The basic idea is: use "said" or "asked" just often enough to make it clear who is speaking.

Sometimes no tag is needed at all. It's clear from the context who is speaking. If Sam says, "Hi John" then there's no need to follow that line with "Hi Sam," John said. "Hi Sam" will do, because we know that it's John who is replying without the tag.

Sometimes a line of narrative will make it clear who is speaking.

Example:

"Hi John," Sam said.

John looked up, annoyed.

"Hi, Sam."


But, regardless, there's seldom a good justification for something like:

"Who cares?" he shrugged.

Most accomplished writers will tell you that's not good writing.

Yeah, I know. I was just surprised that "said" was such a prominent word in the word cloud, even though I only tag about a sixth of my dialogue lines with it. I guess I write just that much dialogue...

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yeah, I know. I was just surprised that "said" was such a prominent word in the word cloud, even though I only tag about a sixth of my dialogue lines with it. I guess I write just that much dialogue...

If it turns up in the word cloud so prominently, I'd be paying attention. That's overuse, I reckon.