Too "political" or "religious" stuff

JDSavanyu

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Hey Literotica moderators, if you're going to reject stories for being too "political" or "religious," then PLEASE add that to the list of official rules / FAQ on the website, so the writers won't get pissed off when those stories get rejected!


J.D. Savanyu
 
They don't have any official rules at all. What they have for rules is buried so deep it takes about 6 clicks through the faq to eventually get to a post by a regular member who broke down the rules that the site endorsed, the post is years old

What the site needs to do is take their free speech claim and bury it with the rules, because it no longer exists here.

Now leave comments spewing hate against women, homophobic slurs and racism, well that's cool. Hate speech is free speech, different political/religious views are not.
 
So I have had both political and religious themes in my stories and they have never been rejected. So I am curious about what you wrote about for it to be rejected on those terms.
 
I mention God in all my stories and have never been flagged. I've not really delved into politics. The key is likely how heavy handed you are, and how central politics/religion are to your story. Passing mention in character development should be fine.
 
https://literotica.com/faq/publishing/publishing-guidelines

  • works that promote or focus heavily on politics or religion, or political or religious figures. Lit readers are bombarded with political disputes on other platforms and they prefer to avoid these types of divisive issues in their erotica.
When did they finally do this? For years it was that Killer muffin post buried in a bunch of steps.

I find some irony in the fact that they have a politics forum here...on an erotica site.
 
When did they finally do this? For years it was that Killer muffin post buried in a bunch of steps.

I find some irony in the fact that they have a politics forum here...on an erotica site.
From another thread it seems he made a story about Chelsea Clinton, so prob will be more about the use of a public figure than anything else. Even if as a publisher they are not liable for defamation they have been strict about this type of content for over a decade
 
When did they finally do this? For years it was that Killer muffin post buried in a bunch of steps.

I find some irony in the fact that they have a politics forum here...on an erotica site.
For those not on the other thread where we were discussing this, looks like that FAQ page is a fairly recent addition - earliest Wayback Machine record of it is April 28 of this year.
 
From another thread it seems he made a story about Chelsea Clinton, so prob will be more about the use of a public figure than anything else. Even if as a publisher they are not liable for defamation they have been strict about this type of content for over a decade
It can't be just "public figure" though, otherwise the "celebrity" half of Celeb/Fanfic wouldn't exist.
 
I venture that politics inspires flame wars which many people are turned off by, and people who are religious often take it extremely seriously. Salman Rushdie was just stabbed multiple times for mentioning Mohammed in a way that offended some Moslems and a few years ago there was a mass murder at a publisher’s facility in Europe for much the same reason. Maybe they think it is just better to avoid that kind of exposure. I imagine that either might also result in diminished participation by writers and readers at least if not something more serious. 🐝
 
From another thread it seems he made a story about Chelsea Clinton, so prob will be more about the use of a public figure than anything else. Even if as a publisher they are not liable for defamation they have been strict about this type of content for over a decade
I think Lit's rules and procedures seek to place them in the category of 'common carriers' - a distinction made before the age of the internet. The post office and trucking companies, in general, are immune from liability for carrying freight when they did not know of the contents of the packages, whether porn, defamatory publications, drugs, etc. This didn't mean that they could never be liable. If they knew, or ought to have known the contents of the packages, they would be liable. Lorries crossing the English Channel with illegal immigrants on board can be liable if they haven't done reasonable due diligence, like keeping the lorry locked, and checking inside before departure. If this weren't so, you can imagine the opportunities that would open up. This concept of 'common carrier' has been imported into the internet and has legal recognition. The distinction drawn isn't legal, it's net-speak, it's between publishers and platforms, and platforms are said to be immune and publishers, as pre-internet to be liable for the content they host. The true distinction is between a common carrier and a person who knowingly distributes illegal material. Lit's rules, reasonable prepublication moderation, and 'notice and takedown' are intended to bring them within the rules of 'common carrier', whether they are described loosely, or describe themselves, as 'publishers'. They do reasonable due diligence and they remove anything they know is illegal.
 
The true distinction is between a common carrier and a person who knowingly distributes illegal material. Lit's rules, reasonable prepublication moderation, and 'notice and takedown' are intended to bring them within the rules of 'common carrier', whether they are described loosely, or describe themselves, as 'publishers'. They do reasonable due diligence and they remove anything they know is illegal.
I am not a lawyer, but I'd have thought Literotica's pre-publication moderation works against any claim to common carrier status?

By my understanding, a key part of the legal definition of "common carrier" is that the provider cannot refuse service without some compelling reason - essentially, it's providing a public good. Literotica's moderation goes well beyond blocking content that might plausibly be illegal; if I wanted to post a political screed or advertise my works on a competing website, I doubt very much that Laurel would let that through.
 
I am not a lawyer, but I'd have thought Literotica's pre-publication moderation works against any claim to common carrier status?

By my understanding, a key part of the legal definition of "common carrier" is that the provider cannot refuse service without some compelling reason - essentially, it's providing a public good. Literotica's moderation goes well beyond blocking content that might plausibly be illegal; if I wanted to post a political screed or advertise my works on a competing website, I doubt very much that Laurel would let that through.
In net-speak, Lit attempts to bring itself within the concept of a platform, like Twitter, Facebook etc, which can refuse to host messages or messengers they don't like, but have immunity against actions for hosting illegal content of which they have no knowlege. This immunity was imported by analogy with common carrier immunity, it's not a perfect analogy. Lit must use reasonable diligence not to host matters which they are on notice may be illegal ie: obscene, defamatory or otherwise actionable, and to remove it when given notice that it is illegal, but they have no obligation to host anything. They can, for their own reasons confine politics and religion to their own forums, or exclude them altogether.

I imagine they have legal advice on these matters and are trying to remain under the umbrella of immunity. Given the definition of IR and NC we can only speculate what their advice says. It's worth remembering that the meaning of words in general use and their legal definition can be very different. Obscene and defamatory are two such words.
 
In net-speak, Lit attempts to bring itself within the concept of a platform, like Twitter, Facebook etc, which can refuse to host messages or messengers they don't like, but have immunity against actions for hosting illegal content of which they have no knowlege. This immunity was imported by analogy with common carrier immunity, it's not a perfect analogy.

I think "common carrier" may be a red herring here. That "refuse to host messages or messengers they don't like" bit is directly contrary to the principle of a common carrier. Indeed, this is the reason why certain factions of US politics are seeking to have Twitter and Facebook considered CCs - not for the protections it would grant those orgs, but because it would force them to stop suspending certain groups of users who Twitter/FB decided weren't worth the trouble.

Lit must use reasonable diligence not to host matters which they are on notice may be illegal ie: obscene, defamatory or otherwise actionable, and to remove it when given notice that it is illegal, but they have no obligation to host anything. They can, for their own reasons confine politics and religion to their own forums, or exclude them altogether.

I agree with this, and making an effort to discourage illegal content presumably does reduce the risk of liability. I just don't think "common carrier" is a good parallel here.
 
I think "common carrier" may be a red herring here. That "refuse to host messages or messengers they don't like" bit is directly contrary to the principle of a common carrier. Indeed, this is the reason why certain factions of US politics are seeking to have Twitter and Facebook considered CCs - not for the protections it would grant those orgs, but because it would force them to stop suspending certain groups of users who Twitter/FB decided weren't worth the trouble.



I agree with this, and making an effort to discourage illegal content presumably does reduce the risk of liability. I just don't think "common carrier" is a good parallel here.
It just happened to be the concept that came to the mind of legislators and judges to facilitate but impose reasonable restraints on, a newly emerging communications technology. It's still bedding in, but seems to me a reasonable compromise. Hosting on the internet is to communicate in every jurisdiction in the world. Every country in the world understands commercial law concepts, including the concept of 'common carrier', so there is every reason to believe you can achieve immunity in every jurisdiction in the world. You'll appreciate that hate speech is illegal in many jurisdictions and publishing eg: The Satanic Verses, or Mein Kampf, can be viewed differently in different jurisdictions. A reader in Pakistan may be executed or in Germany sent to prison for reading such material on Lit, and if Laurel takes a holiday in those countries she could share her readers' fate. As you've pointed out, the law of the hosting country is neither here nor there. One needs to be prudent in relation to religious and political matters also. The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is of no avail beyond its borders.
 
Hey Literotica moderators, if you're going to reject stories for being too "political" or "religious," then PLEASE add that to the list of official rules / FAQ on the website, so the writers won't get pissed off when those stories get rejected!


J.D. Savanyu

They don't have any official rules at all. What they have for rules is buried so deep it takes about 6 clicks through the faq to eventually get to a post by a regular member who broke down the rules that the site endorsed, the post is years old

What the site needs to do is take their free speech claim and bury it with the rules, because it no longer exists here.

Now leave comments spewing hate against women, homophobic slurs and racism, well that's cool. Hate speech is free speech, different political/religious views are not.

https://literotica.com/faq/publishing/publishing-guidelines

  • works that promote or focus heavily on politics or religion, or political or religious figures. Lit readers are bombarded with political disputes on other platforms and they prefer to avoid these types of divisive issues in their erotica.

I wasn't aware of this earlier and wrote a story in the backdrop of the ongoing Russia Ukraine war. It was rejected citing this exact point as mentioned by @RejectReality

I am wondering what to do now. If I modify the story to make it like a scifi fantasy with fictional countries going to war, will it be accepted?
 
I wasn't aware of this earlier and wrote a story in the backdrop of the ongoing Russia Ukraine war. It was rejected citing this exact point as mentioned by @RejectReality

I am wondering what to do now. If I modify the story to make it like a scifi fantasy with fictional countries going to war, will it be accepted?
Doesn't necessarily need to be scifi. If you can make it about two fictional present-day countries, without being too blatant about the Russia/Ukraine origins, it'd probably fly.
 
The post office and trucking companies, in general, are immune from liability for carrying freight when they did not know of the contents of the packages, whether porn, defamatory publications, drugs, etc. This didn't mean that they could never be liable. If they knew, or ought to have known the contents of the packages, they would be liable.
So my father had a buddy that ran a triple-X theater in Denver back in the 80s. This buddy had to ship a film from Denver to Saint Paul, and dad was with him when he took the movie cans to the post off. The title of film, Sex Trek 3: The Search for Spunk, was clearly printed on the label. The postal official asked, "Is this movie porn?" his friend answered, "No, it's Star Trek. How could that be pron?" The postal employee answered, "They misspelled Spock." My dad chuckled and said, "Where in the world was that person's mind when they typed up the shipping label?" Everyone laughed. When they left, his friend said, "I'm gonna kill that bitch. She put the real title on it on purpose."
 
It can't be just "public figure" though, otherwise the "celebrity" half of Celeb/Fanfic wouldn't exist.
Its because Clinton is on their side of the political fence. If I had the inclination to write it, and submit it, I have 65/35 that I could post a story of Melania or Ivanka Trump being raped.

I don't care what anyone's political stance is, its their choice, and I don't judge.

What compounds the divide is things like this where lit had no issue with politics for the most part until 2016 when their side lost. Since then they have becoming increasingly censoring and I am of the firm belief they've reached a point that their screening comments is as much about politics as 'spam'

You can spew homophobic BS, racist crap, all manner of hatred towards women and many in LW go on long posts in comments about what 'they would do' to the women and their lovers in LW stories. Its all good.

If someone dropped the word Maga in a comment it won't see the light of day.

To review...incels racists and phobes are welcome. Anything they disagree with politically is not.

Priorities, right?
 
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