To what extent does whom you read influences how you write?

[butters]

As a new writer, i found this happening to me all the time: like walking behind someone with a certain gait, or limp, i'd find myself subconsciously mimicking them. With the writing, it was more the style of language - be it florid or moody, verbose or contained.

I appreciate this is how many writers, especially poets, begin learning their craft, and that artists will often sit for many hours attempting to reproduce the paintings of masters, and musicians will practise over and over the works of their own greats. My point here is this: does it ever end?
Do you find yourselves doing it less, or more, as you develop your own styles?
If you find someone 'new' to read whose works move you, does it filter through into your own work? if so, for how long?
Do you feel it might benefit your own writing, now, to go read new (to you) poets or are you entirely satisfied with how your own voice sounds to you at the moment?

Is everyone affected by the writing of others, or are some of us more sponge-like in our absorbancy?

 

[butters]

fer christ's sake - influence, not influences

duh
i changed the title halfway through and didn't check it properly
*face palm*

 

[bflagsst]

Any time I see something I like in the arts I try and figure out what they've done to be special, then once I get an idea I see if I might recreate that same sort of uniqueness in my poems or songs. I can try my hardest to write like Pablo Neruda, but I tend to stray because I want to recreate things from Yeats and even ee cummings, the order and elegance of Elizabeth Barrett. When you get mixing and matching in your recreations you get something uniquely your own.

That's why I wanted to know if the team members could give me some insight into how their poems were created. I see things I haven't seen before and want to know how they came to be. In my last real push at writing poems I tried to leave all of the evidence of the process on my wordpad. It's tough, deleting and starting over is so much easier, especially when you're on a streak and just keep rewriting lines and words mid-stanza. I only ended up with a couple poems where I think I showed my process, they weren't my best poems but I hope someday to be able to 'show' how I wrote a very good poem. Here's an example where I think I reveal my whole external process of writing a poem:

title: Messianic In Her Means

Placidly you pirouette
to the pith, you're to the point
over the orthodoxy
ossified flower and plant


Placidly you pirouette to the pith
over the orthodoxy ossified,
a muddy mouthful mourning mistress


I awake with a muddy mouthful
mourning mistress,
over the orthodoxy with an
ossified head


I found you ossified to the pith,
a muddy mouthful mourning,
whence you placidly pirouette,


I found you orthodox ossified,
a muddy mouthful mourning,
and as you placidly pirouette
you show me what's yours
to the pith


You show me what's yours
to the pith,
your orthodox impiety,
your mouthful mourning,
as you martyr the matter

You show me what's your manifold
in the manner of the mystic
you placidly pirouette,
the ritual went out with the rhetoric


You show me what's yours
to the pith,
your orthodox impiety, your mirth mourning
as you martyr the matter

...

You show me what's yours to the pith,
your orthodox impiety and mouthful mourning
as you martyr the matter.

You show me what's yours manifold,
marooned in the manner of the mystic,
you can't help but placidly pirouette,
as your once quaint ritual
now concedes the new rhetoric.

...

You were born
as puerile,
as idle as the next,
given too much respect,
you were borne
Messianic.

 

[butters]

Any time I see something I like in the arts I try and figure out what they've done to be special, then once I get an idea I see if I might recreate that same sort of uniqueness in my poems or songs. I can try my hardest to write like Pablo Neruda, but I tend to stray because I want to recreate things from Yeats and even ee cummings, the order and elegance of Elizabeth Barrett. When you get mixing and matching in your recreations you get something uniquely your own.

That's why I wanted to know if the team members could give me some insight into how their poems were created. I see things I haven't seen before and want to know how they came to be. In my last real push at writing poems I tried to leave all of the evidence of the process on my wordpad. It's tough, deleting and starting over is so much easier, especially when you're on a streak and just keep rewriting lines and words mid-stanza. I only ended up with a couple poems where I think I showed my process, they weren't my best poems but I hope someday to be able to 'show' how I wrote a very good poem. Here's an example where I think I reveal my whole external process of writing a poem:

title: Messianic In Her Means

Placidly you pirouette
to the pith, you're to the point
over the orthodoxy
ossified flower and plant


Placidly you pirouette to the pith
over the orthodoxy ossified,
a muddy mouthful mourning mistress


I awake with a muddy mouthful
mourning mistress,
over the orthodoxy with an
ossified head


I found you ossified to the pith,
a muddy mouthful mourning,
whence you placidly pirouette,


I found you orthodox ossified,
a muddy mouthful mourning,
and as you placidly pirouette
you show me what's yours
to the pith


You show me what's yours
to the pith,
your orthodox impiety,
your mouthful mourning,
as you martyr the matter

You show me what's your manifold
in the manner of the mystic
you placidly pirouette,
the ritual went out with the rhetoric


You show me what's yours
to the pith,
your orthodox impiety, your mirth mourning
as you martyr the matter

...

You show me what's yours to the pith,
your orthodox impiety and mouthful mourning
as you martyr the matter.

You show me what's yours manifold,
marooned in the manner of the mystic,
you can't help but placidly pirouette,
as your once quaint ritual
now concedes the new rhetoric.

...

You were born
as puerile,
as idle as the next,
given too much respect,
you were borne
Messianic.

i so enjoyed the walk-through of this piece, following in the footsteps of your thought processes right there on the page. It makes me wonder how much the consideration of its make-up got in the way of reading it for its own sake. Most the time i try to read a poem for its own merits before i start looking at its composition, but didn't here. This, for me, is a 'head' poem as opposed to a heart' poem, since you engaged me mentally but not emotionally with it. That doesn't make it unworthy as a poem, and I've found I like many head over heart poems before now.

As it happens, this reminds me of a series i played with before, concentrating on using a specific letter of the alphabet for each poem. It was a great exercise and i found some words i'd not really thought about using before... the 'm' poem turned out to be by far the longest, with the s and the t poems being the best of the bunch as i recall. I still really like my first lines of the poem:

Like a leopard on the landscaped lawns
the lethal letter of the law
lacerates my leisure


and this line: playing limbo with loquacious lunacy

and these:

My larynx
a lavender lizard
is lax
so I lavish largish levels of lager upon it
(a lotion to lull the liason)
that I may laquer to the limit
in my lacy lingerie
the lukewarm lazy limpets in
their lobster limousines


ok, not the best poetry in the word, to be sure,and written about 8 years ago or so

BUT it was FUN!

 

[DrewberryLess]

My favorite books are manuals and dictionaries. Unfortunately, my poems also read like manuals.

 

[annaswirls]

I find my work influenced by other's writing, but only a few-- mostly inspired- more than influenced-- mostly from their more informal writing- when I know the writer pre-edit stage when the feeling and writing are still raw

the raw poetry in you speaks to the raw poetry in me
and so on


some poetry influences me when I see it and don't like what I see, and realize I do the same thing.

I did not drink enough coffee today

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Subject matter that I've read gets me fired up sometimes

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I don't think I directly follow what I've lately been reading. It becomes a part of what's inside, but indirectly. Ideas, images, feelings all play in there.

 

[butters]

I find my work influenced by other's writing, but only a few-- mostly inspired- more than influenced-- mostly from their more informal writing- when I know the writer pre-edit stage when the feeling and writing are still raw

the raw poetry in you speaks to the raw poetry in me
and so on


some poetry influences me when I see it and don't like what I see, and realize I do the same thing.

I did not drink enough coffee today

raw?

inspiration's good!

i wrote a long poem, that had some phrases i consider my best, after spending some quality time with Walt Whitman. *nods*

 

[butters]

Subject matter that I've read gets me fired up sometimes

that's so cool, don't you think? one writer creating something that then sparks off another to create something new and so on ... it's like a chain reaction!

 

[butters]

I don't think I directly follow what I've lately been reading. It becomes a part of what's inside, but indirectly. Ideas, images, feelings all play in there.

I've seen this mooted before - we absorb; it becomes a part of us, even though we might change things up or move tangentially away from the original point of thought and onto a new one ... it's exciting, this interfacing between one writer and the other who's reading, sometimes decades, sometimes centuries later

it broadens our own horizons

god, i love interfacing!

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

It's not only what I read, but what I see in nature, a movie or a song. When listening to Sinead O'Conner the other day I was so overcome with the beauty of her song (Nothing Compares to You) I had to write a poem (badly mind you). To me at least, inspiration comes from any places,a note from a friend, an incredible orgasm, to a good book, but I suppose that's true of most (except the orgasm maybe-lol).

 

[butters]

It's not only what I read, but what I see in nature, a movie or a song. When listening to Sinead O'Conner the other day I was so overcome with the beauty of her song (Nothing Compares to You) I had to write a poem (badly mind you). To me at least, inspiration comes from any places,a note from a friend, an incredible orgasm, to a good book, but I suppose that's true of most (except the orgasm maybe-lol).

ah, inspiration can be drawn from all aspects of life - and death. But have you never found yourself writing away only to realise you're writing in a different way to usual, and then twig there's something about the layout/structuring/increased use of certain tools that has been influenced by reading someone else?

 

[greenmountaineer]

Robert Frost influenced me early on and indirectly influenced my move from the the Jersey suburbs with its shopping malls to my beautiful adopted state of Vermont where Frost lived and whose people and pastoral setting often inspired him.

Most influence has been indirect to include the Sisters of Mercy, which is an oxymoron to anyone who suffered the discipline of their yardsticks in elementary school, but I have to say they "ruled over me" when it came to matters of written expression and helped to instill a sense of discipline in my writing (sometimes to a fault, but that's another story).

This website has had a profound influence on my writing. I haven't quite figured that out yet, except to say that I associate something a contributor wrote, either as a poem or as a comment in a particular thread, with a concept that's been mulling around in my mind or an experience I have had and wish to express in some way.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

ah, inspiration can be drawn from all aspects of life - and death. But have you never found yourself writing away only to realise you're writing in a different way to usual, and then twig there's something about the layout/structuring/increased use of certain tools that has been influenced by reading someone else?

Yes, I didn't think of it but you are influenced structurally by what you read. I know chanpagne1982's poem from yesterday really got me thinking about the entire layout and form of illustrated poetry.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Robert Frost influenced me early on and indirectly influenced my move from the the Jersey suburbs with its shopping malls to my beautiful adopted state of Vermont where Frost lived and whose people and pastoral setting often inspired him.

Most influence has been indirect to include the Sisters of Mercy, which is an oxymoron to anyone who suffered the discipline of their yardsticks in elementary school, but I have to say they "ruled over me" when it came to matters of written expression and helped to instill a sense of discipline in my writing (sometimes to a fault, but that's another story).

This website has had a profound influence on my writing. I haven't quite figured that out yet, except to say that I associate something a contributor wrote, either as a poem or as a comment in a particular thread, with a concept that's been mulling around in my mind or an experience I have had and wish to express in some way.

I ADORE Robert Frost. His poem The Road Not Taken serves as one of my mantras.

 

[butters]

Robert Frost influenced me early on and indirectly influenced my move from the the Jersey suburbs with its shopping malls to my beautiful adopted state of Vermont where Frost lived and whose people and pastoral setting often inspired him.

Most influence has been indirect to include the Sisters of Mercy, which is an oxymoron to anyone who suffered the discipline of their yardsticks in elementary school, but I have to say they "ruled over me" when it came to matters of written expression and helped to instill a sense of discipline in my writing (sometimes to a fault, but that's another story).

This website has had a profound influence on my writing. I haven't quite figured that out yet, except to say that I associate something a contributor wrote, either as a poem or as a comment in a particular thread, with a concept that's been mulling around in my mind or an experience I have had and wish to express in some way.

*sighs* ah, Frost. You do have that clean, uncluttered way about your writing ...

how fortunate you are to live in such surroundings. Nature was always my biggest inspiration, first and foremost. Sociable as I am, there are times i need to get away from people noise and be immersed in Nature without even the spoken word to break the spell. it's only when we, ourselves, fall silent, that we can begin to really hear all that's around us.

 

[Epmd607]

These are the first lines of my Slam Poems for today:

I'm going to fist fight walt whitman in the afterlife.

Robert Frost is pretty dross.

I'll meet you in the nave, Robert Graves.

Jonathan Harker Stabbed Dorothy Parker(and by stabbed, I mean 'coitus')

 

[Palba_Noruda]

As a new writer, i found this happening to me all the time: like walking behind someone with a certain gait, or limp, i'd find myself subconsciously mimicking them. With the writing, it was more the style of language - be it florid or moody, verbose or contained.

I appreciate this is how many writers, especially poets, begin learning their craft, and that artists will often sit for many hours attempting to reproduce the paintings of masters, and musicians will practise over and over the works of their own greats. My point here is this: does it ever end?
Do you find yourselves doing it less, or more, as you develop your own styles?
If you find someone 'new' to read whose works move you, does it filter through into your own work? if so, for how long?
Do you feel it might benefit your own writing, now, to go read new (to you) poets or are you entirely satisfied with how your own voice sounds to you at the moment?

Is everyone affected by the writing of others, or are some of us more sponge-like in our absorbancy?

I like these questions, Chip!

Lately, I have been trying to make a specific study of mimicking the writing of others. It has been a satisfying approach to writing.

It has been my goal to write prolifically, and I believe this study of mimicking helps me achieve that goal. Kind of like a child who does a lot of mimicking might end up speaking more or at least speaking competently because of that stage of mimicking.

I don't know if or when I will move away from mimicking. I keep finding new ways of mimicking others and correlating that to whatever is coming more from me. (I do a lot of mimicking here but probably even more in prose writing). And, like I said, it is very satisfying so I don't have plans to stop anytime soon, though I do believe other types of objects and experiences have/will work their way into the rotation of things to mimic/take inspiration from.

On a side note, conventional wisdom suggests that the individual learns language and uses language as a tool. I have been preoccupied with this way of thinking that suggests the opposite; that the language is the agent and it speaks the individual. According to this thought experiment, when the individual mimics something outside the self (like the writing of another writer), the individual is encountering some of the raw material of the self before it is the raw self (or as it is becoming the self).

In other words, my study of mimicking others is a study of the way the outside becomes the inside or the way the outside interacts with the inside.

On the third hand, toddlers acquire language largely through mimicking. Sales people learn mirroring (that shit is a trip). Mediators learn how to get two disputing parties to repeat the words of each other to try to build understanding, empathy, and resolution.

Also, my first job out of college was as a commercial copywriter. In spite of myself, I ended up liking the job. In literally the first month I went from being a rather driftless college student who procrastinated terribly and really had no idea how to write to being somebody who had a disciplined process who could crank out shit loads of decent creative work that clients payed good money to use. Thank God for Andy Warhol or the fine artists on the board would probably think I was a major douche bag for sullying myself with commerce. LOL. I have no idea why it took me so many years to figure out I could use some of what I learned on that job in my own personal writing, I guess I didn't think of it as mimicking then.

One more side note: I looove my typing stand. It is an invaluable piece of equipment IMHO

Messianic In Her Means

I love the music of this whole poem, bflag, very beautiful. The repetition reminds me of the drum beat or bass line of a groove being established by musicians.

 

[butters]

These are the first lines of my Slam Poems for today:

I'm going to fist fight walt whitman in the afterlife.

Robert Frost is pretty dross.

I'll meet you in the nave, Robert Graves.

Jonathan Harker Stabbed Dorothy Parker(and by stabbed, I mean 'coitus')

i adore these!

 

[butters]

Palba_Noruda, what a full and fulfilling reply. I always like to hear about other writers and their creative processes. insight like this gives food for thought and even inspiration.

i particularly like the outside/inside interface thing: does the poem inside find its way out, the passion, the core idea, finding the words to create it on the outside?

or do we dig down, burrow, from the outside in with words in order to reach the concept?

 

[fridayam]

When I began writing poetry as an adolescent, I certainly copied elements or characteristics of poets that appealed to me--e.e.cummings and the Mersey Poets of the 60's come to mind. But when I learnt to understand John Donne, with whose work I was at first all at sea, I put away all those quirks and aberrations. I could never write like Donne but he taught me how a poem could weave the metaphysical with the everyday, a lesson I have tried never to forget. He also opened my eyes to the ways in which a poem can be erotic--something I did forget until I came across "An Epitaph for M.H." by Charles Cotton, which prompted me to rediscover that aspect of Donne.

Also, I think certain poems (and novels) set off trains of thought that end up in one's own work: "The Parliament of Birds" has a distant debt to Chaucer and "Orion" wouldn't have come out the way it did if I hadn't been reading a lot of Nabokov at the time. Just this morning I read a marvellous translation of Valery Larbaud's "Yaravi" in the TLS. This stunning evocation of a nighttime voyage through the Bosphorus has rekindled a poem I have been struggling with for ages linking that waterway with the Mersey of my youth. It won't be as good as Larbaud, but I will mentally be thanking him all the same.

 

[butters]

When I began writing poetry as an adolescent, I certainly copied elements or characteristics of poets that appealed to me--e.e.cummings and the Mersey Poets of the 60's come to mind. But when I learnt to understand John Donne, with whose work I was at first all at sea, I put away all those quirks and aberrations. I could never write like Donne but he taught me how a poem could weave the metaphysical with the everyday, a lesson I have tried never to forget. He also opened my eyes to the ways in which a poem can be erotic--something I did forget until I came across "An Epitaph for M.H." by Charles Cotton, which prompted me to rediscover that aspect of Donne.

Also, I think certain poems (and novels) set off trains of thought that end up in one's own work: "The Parliament of Birds" has a distant debt to Chaucer and "Orion" wouldn't have come out the way it did if I hadn't been reading a lot of Nabokov at the time. Just this morning I read a marvellous translation of Valery Larbaud's "Yaravi" in the TLS. This stunning evocation of a nighttime voyage through the Bosphorus has rekindled a poem I have been struggling with for ages linking that waterway with the Mersey of my youth. It won't be as good as Larbaud, but I will mentally be thanking him all the same.

I'll have to go find that poem by Cotton, and will anticipate reading your own when it's ready for general consumption!

 

[Palba_Noruda]

Palba_Noruda, what a full and fulfilling reply. I always like to hear about other writers and their creative processes. insight like this gives food for thought and even inspiration.

I enjoy discussing process, too, though some people are hesitant to do so I have found.

i particularly like the outside/inside interface thing: does the poem inside find its way out, the passion, the core idea, finding the words to create it on the outside?

or do we dig down, burrow, from the outside in with words in order to reach the concept?

These are good questions, Chip. I have been trying to cultivate some idea that there is a continuum of chemical energy. The guts and glands, the blood and sinews and muscles and fat, the nerve cells, the skin, the air, other people, objects... All are along the continuum...

Making a distinction between inside and outside is obviously useful, but thinking of the individual as just another blob of organic mass along the continuum of energy suggests that the distinction between inside and outside is really just a cultural narrative (myth?) that the Language has instilled in our minds.

I guess I have been more interested in the second notion you suggest, that one can sift around and choose works and words to mimic in an attempt to express to the self what is inside. Even the act of selecting works to mimic is expressive. If one is using physical books, how did one choose those books? If one is borrowing words from Internet sources, how did he end up with those words? In this way, I believe writing can be like dreaming while you are awake.

On a separate note, there's a book I read called The First Word: The Search for the Origins of Language.

So there is this part where they study tool-usage in orangutan groups. They found out that some orangutan groups use tools but some do not. The group that uses tools has a "particularly high population density, and therefore lots of opportunities for observing the tool use, in addition to which individuals in this group are particularly tolerant of being observed and copied."

So the argument is that the group that allows and even encourages mimicking has a more advanced culture than the group that is grouchy and doesn't like to look at each other LOL. That's why I'm glad this forum is tolerant of that kind of experimentation.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Love this poem and this journal. Warning to Epmd: uses the word baby.