To those who are new here

[cymbidia]

Welcome to the BDSM Forum.

Please read the stickies up top which tell you about this forum.
Welcome To The BDSM Forum
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81138

Safe, Sane & Consensual
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70084

The Online Predator
http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81203

Additionally, please consider doing a SEARCH of our old threads to find those containing info that might be of benefit to you. Alternatively, you could page back through the forum and scan the thread titles for that which is of interest.

My personal bias is that one cannot learn to "do" BDSM sexuality via online play. What one learns via online play is all about one's own fantasies. One learns what kinds of sexual things sound exciting and what is scary. Online BDSM play is just that: play. It's the pinnacle of solo masturbation.

Ultimately, in order to find and build a lasting BDSM relationship of worth and value, one must leave the computer and go do for real, in a skin-to-skin manner, what has thus far been simply a thing of shared fantasy. You have to touch your partner, guys, for this stuff to be real. BDSM sexuality cannot exist all alone. It's not a thing of forever-fantasy. And it's definitely NOT what the vast majority of chatrooms make it out to be.

I'm more than happy to help anyone who comes here to begin a search for thier core identity with regard to BDSM sexuality. I won't, however, pretend that i think online play is worth much in the overall scheme of things. At it's best, it's fantasy play. At it's worst, it's a horrible mishmash of perversion that has nothing to do with any BDSM i've ever done.

For most of us here, BDSM is an important part of our sexual identity. For some of us, it's a crucial part of our core identity. BDSM can be a lifestyle, like being a vegetarian or training for and competing in biathalons. It's also a style of sexual play. It can be as much a part of your life as want, or as little.

BDSM = Bondage Discipline Sadism Masochism.

Additionally, the middle two letters, DS, are always taken to mean Dominance and Submission, often abbreviated D/s.

BDSM involves, though this is WAY oversimplified, relationships in which the power wielded by one of the partners exceeds that of the other, always within the sexual arena, often outside it as well.

Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism, Dominance, and Submission are all individual words with thier own definitions. They aren't interchangeable. One can be one or two of these these words and not be the rest. There's even a word missing from the list, a word we all know: Switch. That word, too, is one of our words, a word that belongs to our sexuality.

There's a lot to know, a lot to learn.

Ask us and we'll help you - but be sure you're helping yourself, too. Go and dig for your answers; don't think anyone is going to simply hand them to you. Your needs are not the same as mine, or hers, or his. You have to determine if this fits you and, if so, which parts you like and which parts are scary.

And, again, from my perspective, online play is something you should get past as soon as possible. It'll warp you if you stay in it too long. Go find your local group of perverts and begin to learn from them. In all likelihood, there's a munch someplace close to you; go there to begin to meet people who do this for real.

Again, you are welcome here.

cym

 

[dark whisper]

Nicely put. However, D/s in particular, is not all about sexuality. it CAN be, if that is a particular draw, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater is a bit... mmm... short sighted.

BDSM is primarily about the activities -- skin to skin as it were. D/s, however, is about the emotions. At least it is for me. Those emotions can occur in many, many ways -- online not excluded.

So... to state that it is not possible leaves me with a bit of a distaste in my mouth as i've found FAR more D/s online than in the years of real time interaction within a group of highly experienced BDSMers.

I haven't yet figured out how to quote only a section of a post, so I'm going to cheat a bit here and post it separately:

"BDSM involves, though this is WAY oversimplified, relationships in which the power wielded by one of the partners exceeds that of the other, always within the sexual arena, often outside it as well. "

I agree with this statement -- and the line "always within the sexual arena" is very true for me. However, I'm positive it is not true for everyone. I do know some RT "service" subs/slaves who derive pleasure (soul pleasure, not sexual pleasure) from the act of service in many, MANY non sexual settings. There is little (or no) sexual excitement, it is simply done with "service" in mind.

I have to admit that I am a sexual submissive who craves full control -- in and sometimes out of the bedroom -- particularly of the sexual kind. But I've come to the understanding that not everyone feels the way that I do, and have made the decision to be more open minded of others and their own particular draws.

Just something to think about...

dark whisper

oh, and btw... WHERE do you find the "toplists" for the stories?

 

[cymbidia]

Nicely put. However, D/s in particular, is not all about sexuality.
<snip>
BDSM is primarily about the activities -- skin to skin as it were. D/s, however, is about the emotions. At least it is for me. Those emotions can occur in many, many ways -- online not excluded.

You're right. BDSM is about emotions, and for the vast majority of those who participate in this lifestyle in any manner, those emotions are embodied within the sphere of our sexuality. Pure service submissives do exist; i, too have known a few. They're quite rare though, online or off. For the overwhelming majority of us, BDSM is a thing of our sexuality and, so, our emotions.

I've spent quite a bit of time in various online BDSM chats places, as i'm sure many of us have. In a few, the traditions of skin-to-skin type BDSM were upheld nicely. In those places, the reality of what was occuring on the screen was a fairly close approximation to what occurs between two people who can actually touch each other. Not surprisingly, it was in places that were home to a large contingent of people with real-life (i hate that term) experience which were the most real lifeish.

Unfortunately, there are huge numbers of chat room Dom/mes and subs who claim experience they don't have. Those of us who *do* have experience can spot the pretenders without too much trouble. Those who are new to this, who are seeking answers to questions and needs that keep them tossing and turning all night, who don't know what's offensive and wrong, those people are prey animals for the legions of online pretenders. I've seen those people get lost and hurt and made more confused by chat room play. It is to those people i extend warnings about chat rooms.

And i cannot not warn them against such places, either. There are far more places in which those new to this may stumble and fall and get hurt than there are good, level-headed, no bullshit kinda chat rooms.

So i will continue my Cassandra-like warning to those who stumble into this small bit of the slipstream: don't get lost in online, chat room, BDSM play. To really do this, you need to be able to really touch your partner.

edited to add this caveat: Sometimes people cannot do skin-to-skin play. Sometimes there are reasons, whatever they are (health, physical limitations, geographical distances, etc) that make it nearly impossible for people to actually do this with someone else. For such people, is what they can find of BDSM relationships in chat rooms better than being alone and just wondering about it? Probably so...or it would be so were i to face this choice, i think.

So... to state that it is not possible leaves me with a bit of a distaste in my mouth as i've found FAR more D/s online than in the years of real time interaction within a group of highly experienced BDSMers.

I've found it far easier to find people of like mind online than in the many years of real time interaction i have behind me, too. How could we not? One's physical circle of BDSM friends is so small relative to the many of us on the web.

Still, always, one needs the ability to touch one's partner to learn what it is to feel the flogger striking your skin or wield a tawse against the skin of your submissive. One cannot ever get that reality from online play.

I agree with this statement -- and the line "always within the sexual arena" is very true for me. However, I'm positive it is not true for everyone. I do know some RT "service" subs/slaves who derive pleasure (soul pleasure, not sexual pleasure) from the act of service in many, MANY non sexual settings. There is little (or no) sexual excitement, it is simply done with "service" in mind.

As i said above, service subs exist. They're a distinct minority, though, online and otherwise. Here, in this forum (and in the thread that preceeded it), we haven't had anyone so inclined come seeking direction, as far as i know. If someone service oriented were to show up, we would welcome them, of course, and do what we could to help them along thier path. However, i tend to aim my remarks to the general audience, to the majority in search of some answers or a likeminded community. Here, in this place, it seems we're almost entirely sexual (or want to be) in the expression of our BDSM desires.

One cannot direct remarks to every small splinter group residing under the BDSM umbrella or one would never get anything said at all!

oh, and btw... WHERE do you find the "toplists" for the stories? [/B]

Bottom of the page, click on the STORY INDEX link.
Scroll down to EROTIC STORIES.
Click on the TOP LISTS link within that category.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I also agree that skin- to - skin is the only way to really understand and participate fully in BDSM. Chat rooms can be a nice introduction but can also be an unsafe introduction filled with too much fantasy. Anyone can create who they want to be or who they think You want them to be.

Then again it is sometimes exactly what each party wants..nothing more than fantasy..then it can be a positive portion of their reality. Those who know their lifestyle will never make it possible to meet or try BDSM skin-to-skin may find years of pleasure in role play.

I met a wonderful fem sub in a chat room...knew her for two years and through several Masters. she portrayed herself as a slave with 18 years of real time experience fresh out of a marriage with her r/t Master, in an abusíve Master/slave context. I watched her heart break every time a Master promised her real time then disappeared before the reality occured. Eventually I moved her to Me from one Canadian province to another. The 18 years of slavery was really 18 years in a bad marriage. Little about the woman I knew in chat and on the phone was reality.~her need for submission was real...and deep..and beautiful and I adored her. But too many illusions had to be lived down. It was impossible for Me to continue a relationship built on her fantasy even though I could see where her reality could have gone.

If this same woman had not created herself into what she thought was the perfect fantasy she would still be in My home, loved and cared for in her path to the destination she craved and in reality needs.

This long ramble is meant to say that reality can be a place of opportunity even from a chat room but honesty is just as important there as anywhere else that relationships occur.

ramble ramble ramble!

 

[Guest]

Just my opinion...

Shadowsdream wrote:]
"I also agree that skin- to - skin is the only way to really understand and participate fully in BDSM. Chat rooms can be a nice introduction but can also be an unsafe introduction filled with too much fantasy. Anyone can create who they want to be or who they think You want them to be."

I have no problem with online interactions, but sooner or later, you must press the flesh to really participate. I alwaays say that the best way is to join a BDSM group, attend local munches, and watch folks play. I realize not everyone is capable of playing in public. But you can learn a lot watching others. And you can see how other Dom/me and subs interact with each other.

You wrote:

"Then again it is sometimes exactly what each party wants..nothing more than fantasy..then it can be a positive portion of their reality. Those who know their lifestyle will never make it possible to meet or try BDSM skin-to-skin may find years of pleasure in role play."

That is a major reason I stay away from chat rooms. I have no intention of being a cyber Domme.

"I met a wonderful fem sub in a chat room...knew her for two years and through several Masters. she portrayed herself as a slave with 18 years of real time experience fresh out of a marriage with her r/t Master, in an abusíve Master/slave context. I watched her heart break every time a Master promised her real time then disappeared before the reality occured. Eventually I moved her to Me from one Canadian province to another. The 18 years of slavery was really 18 years in a bad marriage. Little about the woman I knew in chat and on the phone was reality.~her need for submission was real...and deep..and beautiful and I adored her. But too many illusions had to be lived down. It was impossible for Me to continue a relationship built on her fantasy even though I could see where her reality could have gone."

I find that many people have a misguided idea of the difference between D/s BDSM and/or abuse. A lot of it is the fault of the media and bad movies; but a lot of it stems from the use of computers making it easy for people to indulge in behaviour that may be borderline abusive. If I had a dollar for everytime I have been asked about beating someone or being beat.

As I have said many times, My sexuality and my D/s involvement are separate issues. I have in the past and do have vanilla relationships of a sexual nature. I have in the past and do have D/s relationships that are control and service oriented and not primarily of a sexual nature.

I am also a so-called "lifestyle" Domme primarily interested in a 24/7 Mistress/slave arrangement: I am happy to say that my search has ended with the becaue at last I have found my slave tavish. This relationship runs the full gamut of service and sexual activities.

In my mind, kink is kink. My kink may not be your kink, but it is just as valid. As long as it is between two consenting adults, then it qualifies.

I have found that education and practice is the best means of expanding my horizons in D/s.

Ebony <Mistress to tavish & sissyboy>

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Just my opinion...

Shadowsdream wrote:]
"I also agree that skin- to - skin is the only way to really understand and participate fully in BDSM. Chat rooms can be a nice introduction but can also be an unsafe introduction filled with too much fantasy. Anyone can create who they want to be or who they think You want them to be."

I have no problem with online interactions, but sooner or later, you must press the flesh to really participate. I alwaays say that the best way is to join a BDSM group, attend local munches, and watch folks play. I realize not everyone is capable of playing in public. But you can learn a lot watching others. And you can see how other Dom/me and subs interact with each other.

You wrote:

"Then again it is sometimes exactly what each party wants..nothing more than fantasy..then it can be a positive portion of their reality. Those who know their lifestyle will never make it possible to meet or try BDSM skin-to-skin may find years of pleasure in role play."

That is a major reason I stay away from chat rooms. I have no intention of being a cyber Domme.

"I met a wonderful fem sub in a chat room...knew her for two years and through several Masters. she portrayed herself as a slave with 18 years of real time experience fresh out of a marriage with her r/t Master, in an abusíve Master/slave context. I watched her heart break every time a Master promised her real time then disappeared before the reality occured. Eventually I moved her to Me from one Canadian province to another. The 18 years of slavery was really 18 years in a bad marriage. Little about the woman I knew in chat and on the phone was reality.~her need for submission was real...and deep..and beautiful and I adored her. But too many illusions had to be lived down. It was impossible for Me to continue a relationship built on her fantasy even though I could see where her reality could have gone."

I find that many people have a misguided idea of the difference between D/s BDSM and/or abuse. A lot of it is the fault of the media and bad movies; but a lot of it stems from the use of computers making it easy for people to indulge in behaviour that may be borderline abusive. If I had a dollar for everytime I have been asked about beating someone or being beat.

As I have said many times, My sexuality and my D/s involvement are separate issues. I have in the past and do have vanilla relationships of a sexual nature. I have in the past and do have D/s relationships that are control and service oriented and not primarily of a sexual nature.

I am also a so-called "lifestyle" Domme primarily interested in a 24/7 Mistress/slave arrangement: I am happy to say that my search has ended with the becaue at last I have found my slave tavish. This relationship runs the full gamut of service and sexual activities.

In my mind, kink is kink. My kink may not be your kink, but it is just as valid. As long as it is between two consenting adults, then it qualifies.

I have found that education and practice is the best means of expanding my horizons in D/s.

Ebony <Mistress to tavish & sissyboy>

This was Me, sorry. I forgot to log on!

(A mind is a terrible thing to lose!)

 

[Shadowsdream]

Ebony

First congratulations on finding Your tavish...I know how wonderful the magic feels when the *one* for You is finally where they belong.

You are correct...kinks are personal needs..one is no more valid than another...thank goodness there are enough diverse kinks to go around. Wouldn't it be a boring world if all had the same kinks? Arghhhh what a thought!

..and sissyboy....I also enjoy playing with sissyboys..and submissive bi girls who transcend innocence..to the horny little beasts I adore.

Now back to the online subject...I have had wonderful luck meeting Dominants and submissives through ICQ...taking conversations to real time meetings which have resulted in D/s relationships of depth and emotional fullfillment. This is also where I met My slave 3 years ago and My 2 previous male submissives...who now live an impossible distance from Me.

 

[petrel]

I agree broadly with What Cym says about real-life and online play. However from my own experience I would encourage peopel to play online in a safe and responsible manner (ie protecting their identity and privacy) - it was a wonderful way for me to find out what worked for me - yes of course some things that I might enjoy 'talking through' I don't want to act out in skin-skin.
In the main if I liked something online then I would like it in real-life - maybe not as extreme but then I would never plunge right in and ask for 12 strokes with a cane if I hadn't even had a spanking before. But if I had enjoyed the idea of a caning while online I wodul store it away and gradually work up to it in real-life.

I started on my journey from kink to BDSM about a year ago - until this spring alot of it was online/fantasies which let me bulid up information, ideas and feelings abotu specific things. For instance I learnt that when in BDSM headpsace online actually being fucked is the last hign on my mind, that getting off isn't important either - however when I started playing seriuosly with my partner both of these thigns became important because of our relationship and the need for both of us to reaffirm our desire for each other (we are not 24/7 BDSM)

I discovered that I respond well to certian curt phrases but not to lengthy descriptions whilst playing, that I don't (usually) want to be 'in character' I just want to be me as a sub, both of these thigns I wouldn't have been able to guess until I had done the online play thing.

Okay theres also another issue for me in that the idea and reality of sexual contact at a distance and with strangers excites me - I don't want to actually (pardon the language) fuck strangers but I do enjoy that buzz of chatting playing online.

anyway sorry for the long ramble - and good luck to all people who are exploring their sexuality!!

 

[AngelicAssassin]

The original sticky?

Interesting from a historical perspective. Yet,

Nicely put. However, D/s in particular, is not all about sexuality. it CAN be, if that is a particular draw, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater is a bit... mmm... short sighted.

BDSM is primarily about the activities -- skin to skin as it were. D/s, however, is about the emotions. At least it is for me. Those emotions can occur in many, many ways -- online not excluded.

So... to state that it is not possible leaves me with a bit of a distaste in my mouth as i've found FAR more D/s online than in the years of real time interaction within a group of highly experienced BDSMers.

I haven't yet figured out how to quote only a section of a post, so I'm going to cheat a bit here and post it separately:

"BDSM involves, though this is WAY oversimplified, relationships in which the power wielded by one of the partners exceeds that of the other, always within the sexual arena, often outside it as well. "

I agree with this statement -- and the line "always within the sexual arena" is very true for me. However, I'm positive it is not true for everyone. I do know some RT "service" subs/slaves who derive pleasure (soul pleasure, not sexual pleasure) from the act of service in many, MANY non sexual settings. There is little (or no) sexual excitement, it is simply done with "service" in mind.

I have to admit that I am a sexual submissive who craves full control -- in and sometimes out of the bedroom -- particularly of the sexual kind. But I've come to the understanding that not everyone feels the way that I do, and have made the decision to be more open minded of others and their own particular draws.

Just something to think about...

dark whisper

what a well written insight.

 

[Spirit Guide]

Thank you. I've been looking for something like this thread but keep failing. It's very hard to ask questions if you first don't know what to ask.

 

[sexymom]

I don't want to perpetuate the "whose kink is more real" debate. You made it clear that you were giving us your own personal bias, which is commendable. Too many people take the position that "this is the way it is" and neglect any and all evidence and points of view to the contrary.