To the rest of the world The American Dream is dead

thebullet

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Published in the January 31, 2005 issue of Newsweek International

Dream On America

The U.S. Model: For years, much of the world did aspire to the American way of life. But today countries are finding more appealing systems in their own backyards.

by Andrew Moravcsik

Not long ago, the American dream was a global fantasy. Not only Americans saw themselves as a beacon unto nations. So did much of the rest of the world. East Europeans tuned into Radio Free Europe. Chinese students erected a replica of the Statue of Liberty in Tiananmen Square.

You had only to listen to George W. Bush's Inaugural Address last week (invoking "freedom" and "liberty" 49 times) to appreciate just how deeply Americans still believe in this founding myth. For many in the world, the president's rhetoric confirmed their worst fears of an imperial America relentlessly pursuing its narrow national interests. But the greater danger may be a delusional America—one that believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that the American Dream lives on, that America remains a model for the world, one whose mission is to spread the word.

The gulf between how Americans view themselves and how the world views them was summed up in a poll last week by the BBC. Fully 71 percent of Americans see the United States as a source of good in the world. More than half view Bush's election as positive for global security. Other studies report that 70 percent have faith in their domestic institutions and nearly 80 percent believe "American ideas and customs" should spread globally.

Foreigners take an entirely different view: 58 percent in the BBC poll see Bush's re-election as a threat to world peace. Among America's traditional allies, the figure is strikingly higher: 77 percent in Germany, 64 percent in Britain and 82 percent in Turkey. Among the 1.3 billion members of the Islamic world, public support for the United States is measured in single digits. Only Poland, the Philippines and India viewed Bush's second Inaugural positively.

Tellingly, the anti-Bushism of the president's first term is giving way to a more general anti-Americanism. A plurality of voters (the average is 70 percent) in each of the 21 countries surveyed by the BBC oppose sending any troops to Iraq, including those in most of the countries that have done so. Only one third, disproportionately in the poorest and most dictatorial countries, would like to see American values spread in their country. Says Doug Miller of GlobeScan, which conducted the BBC report: "President Bush has further isolated America from the world. Unless the administration changes its approach, it will continue to erode America's good name, and hence its ability to effectively influence world affairs." Former Brazilian president Jose Sarney expressed the sentiments of the 78 percent of his countrymen who see America as a threat: "Now that Bush has been re-elected, all I can say is, God bless the rest of the world."

The truth is that Americans are living in a dream world. Not only do others not share America's self-regard, they no longer aspire to emulate the country's social and economic achievements. The loss of faith in the American Dream goes beyond this swaggering administration and its war in Iraq. A President Kerry would have had to confront a similar disaffection, for it grows from the success of something America holds dear: the spread of democracy, free markets and international institutions—globalization, in a word.

Countries today have dozens of political, economic and social models to choose from. Anti-Americanism is especially virulent in Europe and Latin America, where countries have established their own distinctive ways—none made in America. Futurologist Jeremy Rifkin, in his recent book "The European Dream," hails an emerging European Union based on generous social welfare, cultural diversity and respect for international law—a model that's caught on quickly across the former nations of Eastern Europe and the Baltics. In Asia, the rise of autocratic capitalism in China or Singapore is as much a "model" for development as America's scandal-ridden corporate culture. "First we emulate," one Chinese businessman recently told the board of one U.S. multinational, "then we overtake."

Many are tempted to write off the new anti-Americanism as a temporary perturbation, or mere resentment. Blinded by its own myth, America has grown incapable of recognizing its flaws. For there is much about the American Dream to fault. If the rest of the world has lost faith in the American model—political, economic, diplomatic—it's partly for the very good reason that it doesn't work as well anymore.

AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: Once upon a time, the U.S. Constitution was a revolutionary document, full of epochal innovations—free elections, judicial review, checks and balances, federalism and, perhaps most important, a Bill of Rights. In the 19th and 20th centuries, countries around the world copied the document, not least in Latin America. So did Germany and Japan after World War II. Today? When nations write a new constitution, as dozens have in the past two decades, they seldom look to the American model.

When the soviets withdrew from Central Europe, U.S. constitutional experts rushed in. They got a polite hearing, and were sent home. Jiri Pehe, adviser to former president Vaclav Havel, recalls the Czechs' firm decision to adopt a European-style parliamentary system with strict limits on campaigning. "For Europeans, money talks too much in American democracy. It's very prone to certain kinds of corruption, or at least influence from powerful lobbies," he says. "Europeans would not want to follow that route.." They also sought to limit the dominance of television, unlike in American campaigns where, Pehe says, "TV debates and photogenic looks govern election victories."

So it is elsewhere. After American planes and bombs freed the country, Kosovo opted for a European constitution. Drafting a post-apartheid constitution, South Africa rejected American-style federalism in favor of a German model, which leaders deemed appropriate for the social-welfare state they hoped to construct. Now fledgling African democracies look to South Africa as their inspiration, says John Stremlau, a former U.S. State Department official who currently heads the international relations department at the University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg: "We can't rely on the Americans." The new democracies are looking for a constitution written in modern times and reflecting their progressive concerns about racial and social equality, he explains. "To borrow Lincoln's phrase, South Africa is now Africa's 'last great hope'."

Much in American law and society troubles the world these days. Nearly all countries reject the United States' right to bear arms as a quirky and dangerous anachronism. They abhor the death penalty and demand broader privacy protections. Above all, once most foreign systems reach a reasonable level of affluence, they follow the Europeans in treating the provision of adequate social welfare is a basic right. All this, says Bruce Ackerman at Yale University Law School, contributes to the growing sense that American law, once the world standard, has become "provincial." The United States' refusal to apply the Geneva Conventions to certain terrorist suspects, to ratify global human-rights treaties such as the innocuous Convention on the Rights of the Child or to endorse the International Criminal Court (coupled with the abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo) only reinforces the conviction that America's Constitution and legal system are out of step with the rest of the world.

ECONOMIC PROSPERITY: The American Dream has always been chiefly economic—a dynamic ideal of free enterprise, free markets and individual opportunity based on merit and mobility. Certainly the U.S. economy has been extraordinarily productive. Yes, American per capita income remains among the world's highest. Yet these days there's as much economic dynamism in the newly industrializing economies of Asia, Latin America and even eastern Europe. All are growing faster than the United States. At current trends, the Chinese economy will be bigger than America's by 2040. Whether those trends will continue is not so much the question. Better to ask whether the American way is so superior that everyone else should imitate it. And the answer to that, increasingly, is no.

Much has made, for instance, of the differences between the dynamic American model and the purportedly sluggish and overregulated "European model." Ongoing efforts at European labor-market reform and fiscal cuts are ridiculed. Why can't these countries be more like Britain, businessmen ask, without the high tax burden, state regulation and restrictions on management that plague Continental economies? Sooner or later, the CW goes, Europeans will adopt the American model—or perish.

Yet this is a myth. For much of the postwar period Europe and Japan enjoyed higher growth rates than America. Airbus recently overtook Boeing in sales of commercial aircraft, and the EU recently surpassed America as China's top trading partner. This year's ranking of the world's most competitive economies by the World Economic Forum awarded five of the top 10 slots—including No. 1 Finland—to northern European social democracies. "Nordic social democracy remains robust," writes Anthony Giddens, former head of the London School of Economics and a "New Labour" theorist, in a recent issue of the New Statesman, "not because it has resisted reform, but because it embraced it."

This is much of the secret of Britain's economic performance as well. Lorenzo Codogno, co-head of European economics at the Bank of America, believes the British, like Europeans elsewhere, "will try their own way to achieve a proper balance." Certainly they would never put up with the lack of social protections afforded in the American system. Europeans are aware that their systems provide better primary education, more job security and a more generous social net. They are willing to pay higher taxes and submit to regulation in order to bolster their quality of life. Americans work far longer hours than Europeans do, for instance. But they are not necessarily more productive—nor happier, buried as they are in household debt, without the time (or money) available to Europeans for vacation and international travel. George Monbiot, a British public intellectual, speaks for many when he says, "The American model has become an American nightmare rather than an American dream."

Just look at booming bri-tain. Instead of cutting social welfare, Tony Blair's Labour government has expanded it. According to London's Centre for Policy Studies, public spending in Britain represented 43 percent of GDP in 2003, a figure closer to the Eurozone average than to the American share of 35 percent. It's still on the rise—some 10 percent annually over the past three years—at the same time that social welfare is being reformed to deliver services more efficiently. The inspiration, says Giddens, comes not from America, but from social-democratic Sweden, where universal child care, education and health care have been proved to increase social mobility, opportunity and, ultimately, economic productivity. In the United States, inequality once seemed tolerable because America was the land of equal opportunity. But this is no longer so. Two decades ago, a U.S. CEO earned 39 times the average worker; today he pulls in 1,000 times as much. Cross-national studies show that Am erica has recently become a relatively difficult country for poorer people to get ahead. Monbiot summarizes the scientific data: "In Sweden, you are three times more likely to rise out of the economic class into which you were born than you are in the U.S."

Other nations have begun to notice. Even in poorer, pro-American Hungary and Poland, polls show that only a slender minority (less than 25 percent) wants to import the American economic model. A big reason is its increasingly apparent deficiencies. "Americans have the best medical care in the world," Bush declared in his Inaugural Address. Yet the United States is the only developed democracy without a universal guarantee of health care, leaving about 45 million Americans uninsured. Nor do Americans receive higher-quality health care in exchange. Whether it is measured by questioning public-health experts, polling citizen satisfaction or survival rates, the health care offered by other countries increasingly ranks above America's. U.S. infant mortality rates are among the highest for developed democracies. The average Frenchman, like most Europeans, lives nearly four years longer than the average American. Small wonder that the World Health Organization rates the U.S. healthc are system only 37th best in the world, behind Colombia (22nd) and Saudi Arabia (26th), and on a par with Cuba.

The list goes on: ugly racial tensions, sky-high incarceration rates, child-poverty rates higher than any Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development country except Mexico—where Europe, these days, inspires more admiration than the United States. "Their solutions feel more natural to Mexicans because they offer real solutions to real, and seemingly intractable, problems," says Sergio Aguayo, a prominent democracy advocate in Mexico City, referring to European education, health care and social policies. And while undemocratic states like China may, ironically, be among the last places where the United States still presents an attractive political and social alternative to authoritarian government, new models are rising in prominence. Says Julie Zhu, a college student in Beijing: "When I was in high school I thought America was this dreamland, a fabled place." Anything she bought had to be American. Now that's changed, she says: "When people have money, they often cho ose European products." She might well have been talking about another key indicator. Not long ago, the United States was destination number one for foreign students seeking university educations. Today, growing numbers are going elsewhere—to other parts of Asia, or Europe. You can almost feel the pendulum swinging.

FOREIGN POLICY: U.S. leaders have long believed military power and the American Dream went hand in hand. World War II was fought not just to defeat the Axis powers, but to make the world safe for the United Nations, the precursor to the —World Trade Organization, the European Union and other international institutions that would strengthen weaker countries. NATO and the Marshall Plan were the twin pillars upon which today's Europe were built.

Today, Americans make the same presumption, confusing military might with right. Following European criticisms of the Iraq war, the French became "surrender monkeys." The Germans were opportunistic ingrates. The British (and the Poles) were America's lone allies. Unsurprisingly, many of those listening to Bush's Inaugural pledge last week to stand with those defying tyranny saw the glimmerings of an argument for invading Iran: Washington has thus far shown more of an appetite for spreading ideals with the barrel of a gun than for namby-pamby hearts-and-minds campaigns. A former French minister muses that the United States is the last "Bismarckian power"—the last country to believe that the pinpoint application of military power is the critical instrument of foreign policy.

Contrast that to the European Union—pioneering an approach based on civilian instruments like trade, foreign aid, peacekeeping, international monitoring and international law—or even China, whose economic clout has become its most effective diplomatic weapon. The strongest tool for both is access to huge markets. No single policy has contributed as much to Western peace and security as the admission of 10 new countries—to be followed by a half-dozen more—to the European Union. In country after country, authoritarian nationalists were beaten back by democratic coalitions held together by the promise of joining Europe. And in the past month European leaders have taken a courageous decision to contemplate the membership of Turkey, where the prospect of EU membership is helping to create the most stable democratic system in the Islamic world. When historians look back, they may see this policy as being the truly epochal event of our time, dwarfing in effectiveness the crude power
of America.

The United States can take some satisfaction in this. After all, it is in large part the success of the mid-century American Dream—spreading democracy, free markets, social mobility and multilateral cooperation—that has made possible the diversity of models we see today. This was enlightened statecraft of unparalleled generosity. But where does it leave us? Americans still invoke democratic idealism. We heard it in Bush's address, with his apocalyptic proclamation that "the survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands." But fewer and fewer people have the patience to listen.

Headlines in the British press were almost contemptuous: DEFIANT BUSH DOES NOT MENTION THE WAR, HAVE I GOT NUKES FOR YOU and HIS SECOND-TERM MISSION: TO END TYRANNY ON EARTH. Has this administration learned nothing from Iraq, they asked? Can this White House really expect to command support from the rest of the world, with its different strengths and different dreams? The failure of the American Dream has only been highlighted by the country's foreign-policy failures, not caused by them. The true danger is that Americans do not realize this, lost in the reveries of greatness, speechifying about liberty and freedom.

With Christian Caryl in Tokyo, Katka Krosnar in Prague, Mac Margolis in Rio de Janeiro, Tracy Mcnicoll in Paris, Paul Mooney in Beijing, Henk Rossouw in Johannesburg and Marie Valla in London
 
I think the problem is that America is now showing the weakness of a highly individualistic system.

Being an individual is a good thing. When you are yourself and not a part of some larger entity, there is a great deal of personal satisfaction to be had.

The downside of individualism is that you can become selfish. Only your personal goals and welfare matter. You lose sight of your duties and responsibilities as a citizen.

The European model is attempting to balance out all the myriad forces that exist in a large polity.

The question of balance is rarely even asked in America.
 
rgraham said:
The question of balance is rarely even asked in America.

Very few Americans question themselves or their government about anything. We have been propogandized from early childhood to blindly accept religion and America. Self-criticism is not even an option. That's how a total loser like GW Bush becomes the President of the United States.
 
rgraham666 said:
I think the problem is that America is now showing the weakness of a highly individualistic system.

What's so individualistic about jumping on the band wagon? There are two here in America, and both have the same destination.

Individualism in America has been dead since the early 1900's.

(Despite the obvious group behavior which is a democracy/republic) America is a two party political system. In this regard England is far more individualistc. (I didn't look up the numbers, but my perception is that there is more participation outside of the two primary views over there.)

The meddling in foreign affairs which is primary cause behind the effect which is terrorism towards the US is different only in color. The right wing might build military bases, but the money the left wing would and does spend has an equal or greater chaotic effect (and perhaps less predictable).

I know that most people have no clue how incredibly little foreign aid dollars actually filter down to the people it was intended to help. And nobody understands the rippling effects of that capital as it seeps down.

The reaction of the cause which is not leaving other people alone will always result in violence or disaster.

It's funny how the liberal left which so detests the religious conservatism of the creationist will immediately turn around and toss Darwin and the cause/effect nature of evolution out the window when it comes to social issues, environmental issues,... basicly every other aspect of reality. They would rather impose their own religion of socialism on everyone else.

Note: I am in no way against helping others. The evil which is the chaotic effect comes in to play with nonpersonal or nondirected assistance. That is: going and physically helping your neighbor rebuild his barn after it burns down is most likely a positive net effect. While passing the hat and giving him money to rebuild his barn is not directed/personal enough and not likely to be a positive effect. But for the giver it allows them to be ultimately lazy (minimize effort and maximize feel good).

But cause and effect cannot be denied.
 
But cause and effect cannot be denied.

You, sir, are fucking nuts. I have a theory. My theory is, Amicus has been shut out by so many people on this web site that he has found it necessary to create a new userID called Op_Cit. Just a theory.

Are you actually advocating Social Darwinism? That fucked-up excuse for the rich to abuse the poor has been discredited for a century. Darwin didn't advocate Social Dawinism.

'The survival of the fittest' was merely a shorthand way of explaining natural selection in biological evolution. In context, it only referred to those species that were best suited to survive within the envirnoment they currently found themselve. When the environment changed, they were no longer the fittest to survive.

Read the above aritical, Op_Cit. Americans are three times less likely to climb out of the status level they were born in to than the citizens of a 'socialist' country like Sweden. America's health care system is rated 37th best in the world by the World Health Organization. 37th!!! Are you proud of that? Proud to be an American? Proud to know that America is the only modern democracy without universal health care? Proud to know that over 40 MILLION Americans have no health insurance?

The point of the thread is: It's time that Americans cease to be so self-congradulatory. It's time that Americans open their fucking eyes and see the world as it is as opposed to how they've been taught to see it.

The American era is coming to a close because the American people/government is becoming more reactionary, more unforgiving, more selfish, more warlike.

And those that lead us have the vision and temperment of selfish little boys.
 
thebullet said:
Read the above aritical, Op_Cit. Americans are three times less likely to climb out of the status level they were born in to than the citizens of a 'socialist' country like Sweden.

By any definition other than name, America is a socialist state. It has been a socialist state since (at least) the New Deal (1930's).

Cause and effect/action reaction is a universal law. To deny it is the greatest folly. To redefine it to fit one's own belief is religion.
 
Good article, Bullet. I'm glad to see other countries around the world are rejecting our government's insanity. Thanks.
 
thebullet said:
You, sir, are fucking nuts. I have a theory. My theory is, Amicus has been shut out by so many people on this web site that he has found it necessary to create a new userID called Op_Cit. Just a theory.

Are you actually advocating Social Darwinism? That fucked-up excuse for the rich to abuse the poor has been discredited for a century. Darwin didn't advocate Social Dawinism.

'The survival of the fittest' was merely a shorthand way of explaining natural selection in biological evolution. In context, it only referred to those species that were best suited to survive within the envirnoment they currently found themselve. When the environment changed, they were no longer the fittest to survive.

Read the above aritical, Op_Cit. Americans are three times less likely to climb out of the status level they were born in to than the citizens of a 'socialist' country like Sweden. America's health care system is rated 37th best in the world by the World Health Organization. 37th!!! Are you proud of that? Proud to be an American? Proud to know that America is the only modern democracy without universal health care? Proud to know that over 40 MILLION Americans have no health insurance?

The point of the thread is: It's time that Americans cease to be so self-congradulatory. It's time that Americans open their fucking eyes and see the world as it is as opposed to how they've been taught to see it.

The American era is coming to a close because the American people/government is becoming more reactionary, more unforgiving, more selfish, more warlike.

And those that lead us have the vision and temperment of selfish little boys.

The point of this thread, like the point of every thread you have opened since John Kerry lost, is to rip my country and while doing so take some swipes at the people in charge.

Give Amicus some credit, he's at least unafraid to stand up and admit he is what he is. You're still denying you're a terribly disenchanted liberal.
 
Op_Cit (Amicus revisited) said:
By any definition other than name, America is a socialist state. It has been a socialist state since (at least) the New Deal (1930's).

Cause and effect/action reaction is a universal law. To deny it is the greatest folly. To redefine it to fit one's own belief is religion.

So, what's your point?
 
Coleen said:

Give Amicus some credit, he's at least unafraid to stand up and admit he is what he is. You're still denying you're a terribly disenchanted liberal.

Coleen, why must you and your extreme right fellow travelers apply the 'liberal/socialist' brush to anyone who disagrees with you?

You are correct that I am terribly disenchanted. What I am is a terribly disenchanted American.

When we start bombing Iran, what will be your response? (I heard today that Rumsfled gave the old 'wink and nod' to Israel, and it may be Israel that bombs Iran). Are you still going to be proud to be an American?

Are you of the 'my country right or wrong' stripe', Coleen? That would disappoint me.
 
Last edited:
What's wrong with being liberal? It's not a dirty word. It means you're more interested in people than corporations, more interested in providing for others than making huge profits at others' expense, and interested in world-wide issues rather than narrow "How can I make money by screwing others over?" questions.

I'm proud to be liberal. The way things are going, it isn't the U.S. liberals like me who need to be embarrassed today. We didn't advocate reducing soldiers' salaries, not funding body armor, bombing and killing civilians in Iraq, and so on. :) I know far more conservatives who are embarrassed by the actions of the man they elected than liberals.
 
Now you've got me curious.

Who was this Amicus? Was he an anarchist as am I? Was he someone who was more interested in discussing reality and learning than calling people names?

Is it the nature of the terminology "right" and "left" that makes people blind to the existense of others who do not reside in that spectrum?

I seriously doubt he was a true anarchist, because I've not yet found another. But if he is so derided by you I wonder if there might be something in his perspective or nature from which I might learn...

The funny thing about being an individual is that everyone else perceives them as a threat.

(And still nobody believes me when I tell them I'm an idiot.)
 
Kassiana:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a liberal, except from the right wing point of view. I myself was a conservative as a young person but evolved into a total prgramatist, refusing all labels. I am not guided by preconceived notions or political leanings. I just work off of the facts, ma'am.
 
Op_Cit wrote:
Who was this Amicus? Was he an anarchist as am I? Was he someone who was more interested in discussing reality and learning than calling people names?

No, Amicus isn't an anarchist, except in his love of stirring the pot. He is an extreme right winger who considers everyone to his left to be a socialist.

I assumed you were Amicus when started on 'liberals' and 'socialism'.

Op_Cit, do you really believe in Social Darwinism? Can you believe that an environment may be created that allows for an equal playing field, thus giving everyone a semi-equal chance to achieve their goals? Surely you can see that there is no such thing as a level playing field.

Your concept of helping others is unlikely to work in a modern industrialized society. In a small farm community it's got a shot.

I find much of what you say appealing. But we need to set up your utopian society on another planet, where people don't get sick, where there is no pre-existing class structure, and where humans have outgrown their evolutionary propensity to want to dominate other humans.
 
thebullet said:
Kassiana:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a liberal, except from the right wing point of view. I myself was a conservative as a young person but evolved into a total prgramatist, refusing all labels. I am not guided by preconceived notions or political leanings. I just work off of the facts, ma'am.
Well, I thought you might agree with me. :) My question was obviously for those who use it as a "dirty word."

I don't just agree with anyone who says they're liberal, either, so no quoting Andrea Dworkin at me and saying I agree with her. Okay? :)
 
Originally posted by Kassiana
What's wrong with being liberal? It's not a dirty word. It means you're more interested in people than corporations, more interested in providing for others than making huge profits at others' expense, and interested in world-wide issues rather than narrow "How can I make money by screwing others over?" questions.

That's not what "liberal" means. Just as "conservative" doesn't mean "protecting the people from insane taxes" or "choosing freedom over tyrrany".

If we're opening the floor to heavily lopsided presupposed meanings for words like "liberal" and "conservative" then I don't think any discussion will get beyond the name-calling stage.
 
Sigh. Here we go again.

I quite agree with Op_cit. Most people are not individualistic. And that many are losing their self-identity in large ideological groups. But the American Dream is that the individual, through hard work and common sense, could advance through the world as far as they wished. That is the Dream that is dying.

I also feel Op_cit, that you mistake government itself with socialism. I've encountered it before. It's a major mistake to my mind. Government is a necessity of human existence. It is a tool and like all tools ethically neutral. Socialism is a theory of government, how to use the tool, and a pretty fuzzy one at that. Whether socialism is evil or not is pretty much a matter of personal choice.

Colleen? I don't think that the authour of the article, or bullet for that matter, were America bashing. They were trying to point out that a gulf between America's myths and its reality. A gulf that is growing. It was criticism, dissent, not bashing.

I myself always try to keep a balance. Government is a useful tool. But like all tools it can be used for harm as well as good. I can create a garden with a shovel. I can also kill someone with it. The responsibility in either case is mine.

At least here in the West, I get some say on what my government does.
 
I found the article interesting, and I would hope that it be seen as something more than simply America-bashing. It is true, sadly, that in many aspects of development the USA lags behind, sometimes even far behind, other wealthy nations.

I was disappointed, however, that the authors of the article did not mention the fundamental economic fact that Europe and China spend far less on their militaries than the USA does. This is, I think, a crucial point, since the long-term effect of high levels of military spending for America has been the accumulation of large amounts of debt, while nations like Europe who have enjoyed (not always happily, of course) the benefits of American protection against the Soviets and other would-be world conquerers have been free to invest far more of their capital in their civilian economies, making their current social-welfare states possible.

What I wonder, then, is this: perhaps it is not the American Dream that is failing but rather America overextending itself by trying to maintain a massive military while still having a competitive economy. Given the well-documented waste and other failings of the American system of military acquisition, along with the willingness of the Federal government to run nearly half a trillion dollar deficits, we shouldn't be surprised that the civilian economy in America is becoming less and less competitive. Add to this the increasing number of severe social problems Americans face and are having difficulty dealing with, and it isn't hard to see why those outside the USA are increasingly skeptical of the American way of doing things.

I still have faith in the American Dream. I still have faith in America and its institutions. But as well, I am concerned, as I think we all should be, with the inability and unwillingness of our society and our elected government to address our very real problems. Perhaps it is time we took a close look at who we are and who we have become since WWII, when the current imperial American phase began, and ask ourselves if the role we have chosen is really what is best for our nation.
 
Kassiana said:

I'm proud to be liberal. The way things are going, it isn't the U.S. liberals like me who need to be embarrassed today. We didn't advocate reducing soldiers' salaries, not funding body armor, bombing and killing civilians in Iraq, and so on. :) I know far more conservatives who are embarrassed by the actions of the man they elected than liberals.
You voted for Kerry, though. He was for the war when the vote to give the Pres war powers came down. He remained for the war right through the campaign. He wanted MORE troops to go. If you voted Kerry, you voted to kill Iraqi civilians, since you can't stay in Iraq without doing that.

Liberals have to take the blame for what they voted for. Kerry was for the PATRIOT act when the vote came down, and for the PATRIOT act right through the campaign. He was lukewarm on Roe v. Wade, saying he didn't think having some anti-choice judges on the bench such a bad thing. He was willing to compromise that. For what? Health insurance?

Kerry had the history of a liberal, but he was digging his way rightwards as fast as he could go. He never mentioned torture. He didn't have to. He never mentioned the reasons for Iraq. He didn't have to. Because every liberal in the country said they would vote for him regardless. He didn't need to lift a finger to court liberal votes.

Liberals who voted for Kerry validated the Democratic party's frantic rightward move, thus disenfranchising themselves.

Liberals who voted for Kerry validated the Iraq war, since both Bush and Kerry wanted the war, and between them they captured 97% of the largest voter turnout in history.

cantdog
 
KarenAM:
Well said, Karen. Your point abour American military expenditures is a good one. As I recall, the United States' military spending this year is greater than the sum total of the spending of the rest of the countries in the world. Does this not seem excessive?

We have a strange dichotomy going on in this country. Our government (and I'm not pinpointing just the Bush Administration) has an obsession with military gadgets and is willing to spend ridiculous sums to acquire new and improved hardware systems.

At the same time, the people look with horror at every military death. We have been sold a bill of goods, i.e., that with smart bombs and precision air attacks we can defeat nations without the loss of American lives. The weird thing is, even the neocons, (especially the neocons) believe this pipe dream.
These are the facts: No real war has ever been won without the infantry. Air attacks have been shown time and again to be less than effective.
 
I love calm reasoned threads like this that discuss the meat of current problems without collapsing into name calling, blame games, and false accusations.

Don't you?

Seriously, the fact that we are pissing off the world is a serious problem no matter if you're a communist anarchist or a Neo-Nazi. It directly affects a lot of different areas and will hinder all plans from imperialist to diplomatic to economic. Since the point of these wars is supposedly to spread the American Way of Life and American Ideals so groups of disenfranchised Muslims don't keep calling us Satan, then this news can readily be seen as a failure. The show of force is confirming fears instead of disproving them and that is a bad thing no matter who you are or what your politics are.
 
Cantdog said:
Liberals who voted for Kerry validated the Iraq war, since both Bush and Kerry wanted the war, and between them they captured 97% of the largest voter turnout in history.
Come on, Cantdog. You wanted the anti-war people to fall on their swords and vote for someone like Nadar who had no chance of winning. While there was a chance that Bush could be beaten, it was incumbent upon the anti=war people to vote for the only candidate other than Bush with a chance of winning.

Kerry was like every other politician: he already had the anti-war vote locked up. He didn't need to keep selling the anti-war movement in his campaign. I personally feel certain that had Kerry won the election, I wouldn't be sitting here reading Seymour Hersh talking about the next war in Iran.

There comes a time when one must become a realist. Bad as Kerry may have been, he was infinitely better than Bush. This election was not the time to piss your vote away on an obscure 3rd party candidate.
 
Lucifer Carroll said:
The show of force is confirming fears instead of disproving them and that is a bad thing no matter who you are or what your politics are.

What I've been saying (badly, I know) for a long time: There is no place for politics in foreign policy. This administration's foreign policy is the first in my memory that has been primarily driven by political philosophy.

The preconceived notions of the neocons as to how their actions would be responded to by others is behind the greatest failures in American foreign policy in living memory. Three years ago, rightly or wrongly, America was at its pinacle in terms of world support. It has taken GWB 3 years to piss away all that goodwill. Bush/Rumsfeld and Co have insulted, bullied, and arroganced their way through the court of world opinion. And now America is looked upon with scorn.

It's just inconceivable to me how much we have lost in world esteem. Can we ever get it back? Do we deserve to?.

And there will be posters on this website who call my words "America Bashing". Go figure.
 
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