To Quell A Winged Thing

[WickedEve]

Here's a poem I posted on another board where I received various comments, but I never was able to complete a satisfactory revision. Most of the problem centers around the first strophe. Also there seems to be a starling/lapwing conflict. I am told that lapwings would be found near water but not starlings. So, I changed the first strophe, slightly. I added "stray," hoping to give the impression that this bird has strayed from familiar territory and fallen in with the wrong crowd, so to speak.

Any help in fine tuning this poem will be appreciated. Rybka, you know birds. Is it insane to have my starling with lapwings?

I recall the starling,
stray in erratic flight
of deceitful lapwings.

I watched
till she was feather
and bit of bone over the peninsula.

They moved on,
leaving me to drift her
out to sea.

Original 1st strophe:
I recall the starling, swift
in the erratic flight
of a deceit of lapwings.
(A deceit of lapwings is the same as a flock.)

 

[Angeline]

I don't know nuthin about birds...

but I like this poem very much. It's a vivid, mobile piece, and I like the image of one kind of bird caught briefly in the flight pattern of another flock. I guess the only problem would be if it's so incongruous that the lapwings would attack the starling, right? The speaker's observant passivity is very good, too.

A few more specific comments that may or may not help. I really scoured it cause it's you and you're good (and cause it's the kind of review I want of my stuff) Take whatever works.

Strophe 1

I recall the starling,
stray in erratic flight
of deceitful lapwings.

I like your revision better: "stray" is more evocative than what you had before. If this is an act that occurred in the past though (the speaker "watched"), even the immediate past, should it be "strayed" instead?

Also, "stray in erratic flight of" is somewhat ambiguous-- the reader isn't sure whether the starling was erratic in its flight and got caught among the lapwing flock (I think you mean that), or that the starling strayed into a flock of lapwings that were flying erratically. You may want to keep it ambiguous (I do that sometimes), but you could say:

among deceitful lapwings

to clarify that the starling was the erratic one.

Strophe 2

I watched
till she was feather
and bit of bone over the peninsula.

Do you really need "bit of" in line 3? It seems unnecessary to me and potentially distracting, but maybe I'm missing the point. I might also move bone to line 2 as follows, but again that's me...

I watched
till she was feather and bone
over the peninsula.

Strophe 3

They moved on,
leaving me to drift her
out to sea.

I love lines 2 and 3--I thought it a really strong ending. I wonder about "moved on" in line 1 though. It's not quite a cliche, but it's not very visual either, and in a short poem like this I'd go for the most colorful terms I could find. You could say something like "receded," which gives the image of the flock shrinking away or even suggest a direction "They dipped west," etc. Maybe not the way you want to go, but a thought...

Well you know me. Reallly blabby, lol. Hope this helps!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Well, I see Angeline replied while I had to open the door to the postman and stole all my lines. lol.

I'll just add that I too enjoyed the general tone of the piece, and would only consider that change in They moved on Ange mentioned. I don't like "receded" that much, in this context, but maybe "shrink away" or the direction thing would work.

 

[Angeline]

*I* Stole *Her* Lines!

Well, I see Angeline replied while I had to open the door to the postman and stole all my lines. lol.

Well sheesh woman, how long does it take to answer your door? I was writing that post for twenty minutes.

(I'm comprehensive but slow, lol).

 

[Lauren Hynde]

It took me 5 minutes, but for some reason it's taking about half hour to reload each page. *kick*

It just occured to me... what's the sound lapwings make?

 

[Rybka]

WE wrote:

Here's a poem I posted on another board where I received various comments, but I never was able to complete a satisfactory revision. Most of the problem centers around the first strophe. Also there seems to be a starling/lapwing conflict. I am told that lapwings would be found near water but not starlings. So, I changed the first strophe, slightly. I added "stray," hoping to give the impression that this bird has strayed from familiar territory and fallen in with the wrong crowd, so to speak.

Any help in fine tuning this poem will be appreciated. Rybka, you know birds. Is it insane to have my starling with lapwings?

According to Audubon the male and female starling look the same, so how did you know it was a female? In the Americas starlings are usually found in rural areas, preferring meadow and croplands, but after the tree leaves fall they will seek cattails and marshland. Most migrate south, but those that don't will seek roosts on buildings. Regarding mingling: "Starlings are quite gregarious, except when nesting, and often associate in flocks with red-winged and rusty blackbirds, cowbirds, and grackles, but they do not share there town roosts with these species. The maneuvering of a flock of starlings is remarkable. How an apparently leaderless mass of individuals can achieve such perfect timing and co-ordination is an unsolved mystery."

Via websearch, I find the lapwing to be a European wading bird (the starling was originally from Europe). I know nothing about it except that gathers in great numbers at times, particularly in winter and often takes flight in numbers. I suppose a starling could join a flock of resting lapwings at low tide, but it certainly couldn't feed with them. And it is such a good flock flier I don't see how it could get hurt unless lapwings are intolerant of other species and attack them.

Now on to the poem.

To Quell A Winged Thing
Why "quell"?

in line 2, 1st strophe, is "stray" a noun or a verb, or are you going for both?
in line 3, 1st strophe, if "deceit" is a synonym for "flock" and you are going for the double meaning, stick with the noun. No one will be able to appreciate the adjective.
So strophe 1 might be:

I recall the starling,
stray in erratic flight
of lapwing deceit.

and the 2nd might read:

I watched
till she was feathers
and a bit of bone over the peninsula.

the 3rd:

They skirled on,
leaving me to drift her
out to sea.


Regards, Rybka

 

[Angeline]

in line 3, 1st strophe, if "deceit" is a synonym for "flock" and you are going for the double meaning, stick with the noun. No one will be able to appreciate the adjective.
So strophe 1 might be:

I recall the starling,
stray in erratic flight
of lapwing deceit.

It's Eve's poem, and she knows best how to make it work for her, but I have to respectfully disagree with your take on "deceit," fishie. I think its use as an adjective supports a critical metaphor in the poem, and it's not hard to appreciate at all.

If one considers the poem as a metaphor for being different from the others around you, not fitting, caught up in something that's not for you, etc. (which I think is a defensible interpretation), the use of the term as an adjective really works well. Feeling like one doesn't belong because others deceived is a real human experience.

I also think that switching "deceit" and "lapwing," so that deceit is the noun and lapwing the adjective creates a construction that is both awkward and passive. I feel the other way round is active--it not only sounds stronger, but provides an active image in a poem about movement.

Not trying to be disagreeable, just explaining my opinion and giving Eve the opportunity to consider all the angles.

 

[Rybka]

It's Eve's poem, and she knows best how to make it work for her, but I have to respectfully disagree with your take on "deceit," fishie. I think its use as an adjective supports a critical metaphor in the poem, and it's not hard to appreciate at all.

If one considers the poem as a metaphor for being different from the others around you, not fitting, caught up in something that's not for you, etc. (which I think is a defensible interpretation), the use of the term as an adjective really works well. Feeling like one doesn't belong because others deceived is a real human experience.

I also think that switching "deceit" and "lapwing," so that deceit is the noun and lapwing the adjective creates a construction that is both awkward and passive. I feel the other way round is active--it not only sounds stronger, but provides an active image in a poem about movement.

Not trying to be disagreeable, just explaining my opinion and giving Eve the opportunity to consider all the angles.

I think my point was in regards to "deceit", that if deceit is to lapwing as gaggle is to geese, I would not use "of gaggleful geese" as my third line. I personally have never heard of "deceit" meaning a group of anything. I would be surprised if many have. Using "deceitful" makes that meaning even harder to discern.
I am not saying that your interpretation of deceit/deceitful is wrong, I see it too, but that "deceitful" makes it harder to see the other meaning.
By the way, I consider both "lapwing" and "deceit" to be nouns in the initial level of the poem, as in "geese (in a) gaggle" (or to be more accurate, in flight; "geese in a skein".
But, as you point out, it is Eve's poem and she knows best what she meant. I was just expressing my views because I was asked to do so. I did not know I was to be limited to strictly to birds.

Regards, Rybka

 

[WickedEve]

I just got home and I'm peeking at what everyone has to say. smithpeter recently suggested to me to change the birds to, I believe, buzzards and crow. Yeah, that would be real purdy. lol

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I would tend to agree with Angeline's interpretation. Of course deceit as a flock of lapwings isn't the more familiar of terms, but if you think of it as stray in erratic flight / of murderous crows, you got to love those mechanics... It's a great line.

 

[Angeline]

I did not know I was to be limited to strictly to birds.

I didn't think you were, either. I certainly hope *you* don't think I was suggesting you were--I can't imagine how anyone could get that from what Eve wrote. I was simply disagreeing in a collegial way, the same way I would in any academic discussion where opinions vary.

I'm sure "deceit" is a legit term meaning "group," and I agree it is likely to be understood as such by reletively few, but I love that the meaning works a few ways. That's a great poetic device.

 

[WickedEve]

Re: I don't know nuthin about birds...

Strophe 1

I recall the starling,
stray in erratic flight
of deceitful lapwings.

I like your revision better: "stray" is more evocative than what you had before. If this is an act that occurred in the past though (the speaker "watched"), even the immediate past, should it be "strayed" instead?
In one of my many revisions I used strayed.

Also, "stray in erratic flight of" is somewhat ambiguous-- the reader isn't sure whether the starling was erratic in its flight and got caught among the lapwing flock (I think you mean that), or that the starling strayed into a flock of lapwings that were flying erratically. You may want to keep it ambiguous (I do that sometimes), but you could say:

among deceitful lapwings

to clarify that the starling was the erratic one.
among would also work. Actually, I read that lapwings have an erratic flight pattern. So, I thought either way would work. I was visualizing the starling's flight as being erratic once she became part of the erratic lapwing flock.

Strophe 2

I watched
till she was feather
and bit of bone over the peninsula.

Do you really need "bit of" in line 3? It seems unnecessary to me and potentially distracting, but maybe I'm missing the point. I might also move bone to line 2 as follows, but again that's me...

I watched
till she was feather and bone
over the peninsula.
Bit isn't necessary. It's one of those phrases I simply liked -- "bit of bone."

Strophe 3

They moved on,
leaving me to drift her
out to sea.

I love lines 2 and 3--I thought it a really strong ending. I wonder about "moved on" in line 1 though. It's not quite a cliche, but it's not very visual either, and in a short poem like this I'd go for the most colorful terms I could find. You could say something like "receded," which gives the image of the flock shrinking away or even suggest a direction "They dipped west," etc. Maybe not the way you want to go, but a thought...
I do like this suggestion very much. I thought moved on may be too simple.

Well you know me. Reallly blabby, lol. Hope this helps! [/B]

 

[WickedEve]

WE wrote:


According to Audubon the male and female starling look the same, so how did you know it was a female? I believe I went with she because I put myself in the starling's place. In the Americas starlings are usually found in rural areas, preferring meadow and croplands, but after the tree leaves fall they will seek cattails and marshland. Most migrate south, but those that don't will seek roosts on buildings. Regarding mingling: "Starlings are quite gregarious, except when nesting, and often associate in flocks with red-winged and rusty blackbirds, cowbirds, and grackles, but they do not share there town roosts with these species. The maneuvering of a flock of starlings is remarkable. How an apparently leaderless mass of individuals can achieve such perfect timing and co-ordination is an unsolved mystery."

Via websearch, I find the lapwing to be a European wading bird (the starling was originally from Europe). I know nothing about it except that gathers in great numbers at times, particularly in winter and often takes flight in numbers. I suppose a starling could join a flock of resting lapwings at low tide, but it certainly couldn't feed with them. And it is such a good flock flier I don't see how it could get hurt unless lapwings are intolerant of other species and attack them.
It was suggested on another board that I should simply change starling to some other bird. I'll use that as a last resort.

Now on to the poem.

To Quell A Winged Thing
Why "quell"?
I remember that being quash and I ended up with quell.

in line 2, 1st strophe, is "stray" a noun or a verb, or are you going for both? I may use strayed. I had that in an earlier revision
in line 3, 1st strophe, if "deceit" is a synonym for "flock" and you are going for the double meaning, stick with the noun. No one will be able to appreciate the adjective.
So strophe 1 might be:

I recall the starling,
stray in erratic flight
of lapwing deceit.

and the 2nd might read:

I watched
till she was feathers
and a bit of bone over the peninsula.

the 3rd:

They skirled on,
leaving me to drift her
out to sea.


Regards, Rybka

Thanks, Rybka

 

[WickedEve]

If one considers the poem as a metaphor for being different from the others around you, not fitting, caught up in something that's not for you, etc. (which I think is a defensible interpretation), the use of the term as an adjective really works well. Feeling like one doesn't belong because others deceived is a real human experience.
I kind of did things differently. I wrote this poem and then decided what it was about. I like deceitful because of the deceit/flock of lapwings and because their deceitfulness causes the death of the starling. And how were they deceitful? I suppose they looked inviting at first glance until the starling became caught up in their erratic speed.

I also think that switching "deceit" and "lapwing," so that deceit is the noun and lapwing the adjective creates a construction that is both awkward and passive. I feel the other way round is active--it not only sounds stronger, but provides an active image in a poem about movement.

Not trying to be disagreeable, just explaining my opinion and giving Eve the opportunity to consider all the angles. [/B]

 

[Tangerine Sex Dream]

stray

maybe I am the one that doesn't understand..but the first time I read it, ( and I agree, it is beautiful) I read/interpreted "stray" as alone...not that I would ever suggest changing that particular word. I like it

I recall the starling,
stray in erratic flight
of lapwing deceit.

Tanja

 

[WickedEve]

I think my point was in regards to "deceit", that if deceit is to lapwing as gaggle is to geese, I would not use "of gaggleful geese" as my third line. I personally have never heard of "deceit" meaning a group of anything. I would be surprised if many have. Using "deceitful" makes that meaning even harder to discern.
I am not saying that your interpretation of deceit/deceitful is wrong, I see it too, but that "deceitful" makes it harder to see the other meaning.
By the way, I consider both "lapwing" and "deceit" to be nouns in the initial level of the poem, as in "geese (in a) gaggle" (or to be more accurate, in flight; "geese in a skein".
But, as you point out, it is Eve's poem and she knows best what she meant. I was just expressing my views because I was asked to do so. I did not know I was to be limited to strictly to birds.

Regards, Rybka

Deceitful is not being used like gaggle. Deceitful is about deceiving. But I like it also because of deceit of lapwings. In both versions, I wanted deceit to basically be about deceiving, and if it ended up having two meanings for a reader, then that was fine.

 

[Angeline]

I kind of did things differently. I wrote this poem and then decided what it was about. I like deceitful because of the deceit/flock of lapwings and because their deceitfulness causes the death of the starling. And how were they deceitful? I suppose they looked inviting at first glance until the starling became caught up in their erratic speed.

Thanks for the explanation, Eve. I was kind of out on a limb with my interpretation, I know--and I wondered whether I should even go there, say I think it's this. But then I figured it's like any poem one reads. You decide what you think it means and then you try to find reasons to support that. And it always fascinates me to see the difference between what I saw as a reader and what the writer saw.

I know exactly what you mean though about deciding afterward what the poem is about. Even when I think I'm going in one direction when I start to write, I almost always end up somewhere pretty different.

In any case, it really is a beautiful poem--good luck with it.

 

[ag2507]

The Lapwing

The Lapwing is an interesting bird: in ancient mythology (and this symbiology transcends religeon) the lapwing wasa symbol for a secret. Any litterature referencing lapwings eas telling the reader to look out for a significant secret.

This is due to the lapwing's amazing ability to hide in reeds by freezing with it's neck head and beak erect resembling areed. They can be very hard to find. Poetically, a lapwing is mor interesting when not flying, rather than when on the wing.

A deceit is therefore a very logical description. I may be wrong, but I'm not sure lapwings tend to flock much as too many together would negate their defense mechanism. Therefore their deceit is rare. Again symbolically, the lapwing usually hides something precious so the yclept deceit is probably a post christian description countering the pagan significance of the bird.

I don't think you need to worry about the juxtaposition of starling or lapwing - starlings are pests and get everywhere. Perhaps more interesting would be to find a bird that really is deceitful (I can only think of the Jackdaw offhand which steals things) or maybe the cucoo, which ISvery deceitful, and link the two in a similar poem pivoting on the real deceit versus the sacred secret.

AG

 

[The_Fool]

Nothing better than a thread like this one to show how little ya know. 'Course, I can always use a little humblin'.

Good Shit, Wicked....

 

[WickedEve]

Good Shit, Wicked....

Well, I'm glad you stepped in something you like. lol

 

[The_Fool]

Well, I'm glad you stepped in something you like. lol

Now if we could just roll it and smoke it....and would the resulting smoke trail be serif or sans?