To Europeans on Behalf of the U.S.: Oops. Sorry.

3113

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The tsunami of global stock sell-offs swept through Europe on Friday as shareholders deserted the markets in droves, pushing down stock prices in a frenzy some dubbed Red October. Exchanges that had hit record highs just a year ago plunged almost from the moment they opened. London's FTSE 100 lost 10% of its value within half an hour of the opening bell.

The glumness within the financial industry is increasingly being matched by fear in what Europeans call the "real economy," or the workaday world. Small investors, from pensioners to assembly-line workers, are bracing for a sharp decline in living standards -- and some are blaming the United States.

"This economic crisis is ruining us," Cesare Tesori, 65, said as he was out shopping in Rome. "Before when I needed money, I could at least go to the bank and get cash from the little savings we had. Now, all my investments in stocks -- especially the American ones -- have fallen so dramatically that we were advised not to sell them because we would lose too much money. So this means I can't access my money."

Retired from his job with Italian state television, Tesori sees little but deprivation ahead. "I guess the only thing left for us is to avoid using the washing machine in order to save electricity and start washing our clothes by hand, like our grandparents used to do," he said. "This is what the American economy did to us."

European folks, I know our leaders have a way of shirking responsibility and won't take the blame for this, but I do feel that we might have had something to do with this and I feel really bad about it. So, on behalf of the U.S.A., I just want to say...our bad. Sorry we got ya into this mess. We're still suck in that isolationist mentality where we think our actions have no affect on anyone else and so we tend to do things without considering the larger implications.

Depending on the upcoming election, we'll either start to think globally, or move our heads further up our asses. Either way, um, our apologies for fucking up the economy. :rose:
 
Um, the use of 'derivatives' as investments started long before the current administration. Whatever their many faults, you can't blame the White House for this one. It's a Wall Street special, proving that fund managers are idiots only concerned with the current quarter. And despite the warnings of Warren Buffett, smartest investor in the world, the Europeans bought right into it as badly as we did. No pity. And now that the Dow is below 9K, buy what Buffett is buying!!
 
Um, the use of 'derivatives' as investments started long before the current administration. Whatever their many faults, you can't blame the White House for this one. It's a Wall Street special, proving that fund managers are idiots only concerned with the current quarter. And despite the warnings of Warren Buffett, smartest investor in the world, the Europeans bought right into it as badly as we did. No pity. And now that the Dow is below 9K, buy what Buffett is buying!!


Amen to that. Certain economic pundits were predicting that this overvalued market would nose dive months ago...but they were ignored. The smart investors have been taking a strong cash position and now are snapping up undervalued, but still worthwhile stocks jettisoned by the panicky.

You don't run with the herd when it's heading for the cliff. :rolleyes:
 
This was bound to happen, nothing can go up in value forever there has to be a period of adjustment to the skyrocketing values. The greed on Wall Street is what drove everyone to do what they did. It was the Financial Wizards, and that's how I look at them - nothing but smoke and mirrors - are the folk who have driven the economy of the not only the US but all those in the free market.

If you go into something with blinders on and only focus on the immediate gain without regard for the long term expect to be smacked upside the head. With a 2x4.

I was coming and a few people saw the signs, just not those whose greed shaded their eyes to neglect their fiduciary responsibilities.
 
And now that the Dow is below 9K, buy what Buffett is buying!!

I know they invoked him at the debate, but notice that even Barack sounded wishful.

Warren Buffet as treasury secretary would be a dream. But why would Warren do that? It makes no sense for him to do it.

It is very rarely anything but the absolute best of advice to imitate Warren Buffet with your financial decisions. The man is a bonafide genius.
 
I know they invoked him at the debate, but notice that even Barack sounded wishful.

Warren Buffet as treasury secretary would be a dream. But why would Warren do that? It makes no sense for him to do it.

It is very rarely anything but the absolute best of advice to imitate Warren Buffet with your financial decisions. The man is a bonafide genius.

Any Treasury Secretary has to deal with the pork butchers shop otherwise known as the US Congress. When you look at the way they larded up the original 'bailout' do you think there's a snowballs chance in hell those guys would ever put aside sectional and self interest for the good of the whole of America.

Why would anyone(good) really want the job?
 
-smirks- One should also note, part of the issue has been oil. Most notably the supply of oil. As many have noted here in the US, at least, the price of oil has fallen rather nicely, however, dark clouds lie ahead. OPEC recently announced that they were going to meet to combat the fact that demand has gone down, and thus the fact that the price of oil has dropped so dramatically. Any bets that supply is going to go down soon?
 
True.

We get candidates like Bush and Kerry and Obama and McCain because no one worth a shit wants to be President.
 
European folks, I know our leaders have a way of shirking responsibility and won't take the blame for this, but I do feel that we might have had something to do with this and I feel really bad about it. So, on behalf of the U.S.A., I just want to say...our bad. Sorry we got ya into this mess. We're still suck in that isolationist mentality where we think our actions have no affect on anyone else and so we tend to do things without considering the larger implications.

Depending on the upcoming election, we'll either start to think globally, or move our heads further up our asses. Either way, um, our apologies for fucking up the economy. :rose:

3113, I'm not going to argue over the need for the US to apologize to the rest of the world. We have screwed up plenty over the years and we certainly belong at the front of the apology line.

Of course, stretching far behind us is all of the other countries who need to apologize as well.

Europe for protectionist and self serving economic policies, god knows China for a multitude of sins, Africa for human rights, South America for the environmental impact of deforestation, the Middle east (Not EVEN going to go THERE), Canada, Japan, Australia, India, on and on and on and on. Till every single damn country apologizes for their screw-ups too (and they ALL have them). We ALL are guilty of pissing on this world.

What I think is of more importance is for the pointing fingers to be lowered and the level of animosity to be reduced. All it does is foster defensiveness and distrust. If we put the same enthusiasm we have for country bashing (including our own) towards nobler goals we will then get to form a congratulatory line with America at the front of the line again.
 
Agreed that fund managers are looking only at the short-term profit picture.

Why?

Who set up an environment where "maximizing shareholder value" is the friggin' mission statement of corporations, instead of taking an approach that balances gain against basic financial fundamentals? An environment where a fund manager is only as good as his or her last quarter?

Who taught the CEOs and CFOs, when they were but aspiring MBAs, that having cash on hand to meet revenue shortfalls is a bad thing?

Who decided that leveraging debt to a ridiculous degree was a sound strategy?

I have no problem with the idea that corporations can measure their success in maximizing shareholder value by outperforming certain benchmarks. But we're now reaping the whirlwind of taking that idea to extremes.
 
From my favorite book.

BUSINESS SCHOOLS Acting schools which train experts in abstract management methods to pretend they are capitalists.

;)
 
Why an apology?

Our bankers have been just as unprincipled as anyone's.

Easy credit for poor risks, housing loans that the home buyer couldn't repay, leveraging of bad credit to ridiculous levels - the UK bankers have done it all with encouragement from successive governments.

Iceland's bankers seem to have been more inventive than any others. The people of Iceland may suffer for years because of a few predatory idiots.

Og
 
I read that we apologized for the genocide in Rwanda. I dont recall we murdered anyone there, but we apologized for it.

I think we need to apologize for World Wars ONE & TWO. I suspect we're close to asking the Japanese for forgiveness.
 
...And despite the warnings of Warren Buffett, smartest investor in the world, ...

...It is very rarely anything but the absolute best of advice to imitate Warren Buffet with your financial decisions. The man is a bonafide genius...

Over the course of his life, Warren Edward Buffett has performed an enormous and invaluable public service by making his thinking and investment philosophy freely available to anyone willing to take the time to avail themselves of the best possible investment education. He is a national treasure.

Unfortunately, as I gaze across the landscape, I see no successors and I do not look forward to an investment world from which he is absent.

From the recently released biography, The Snowball:

"... Warren begins to tell his story: 'Balzac said that behind every great fortune lies a crime. That's not true at Berkshire.'

He leaps out of his chair to bring home the thought, crossing the room in a couple of strides. Landing on a mustardy-gold brocade armchair, he leans forward, more like a teenager bragging about his first romance than a seventy-two-year-old-financier. How to interpret the story, who else to interview, what to write: The book is up to me. He talks at length about human nature and memory's frailty, then says, 'Whenever my version is different from somebody else's, Alice, use the less flattering version."


 
Fools Make Him Possible.

Warren has sat on his fat ass until the time was ripe to collect the fruit from the Bear Market tree. Thats his racket. It isnt noble or wise. Its what he does.

What sort of practical advice is: ONLY BUY IN A BEAR MARKET?

Without fools he'd be bussing tables.
 
Warren has sat on his fat ass until the time was ripe to collect the fruit from the Bear Market tree. Thats his racket. It isnt noble or wise. Its what he does.

What sort of practical advice is: ONLY BUY IN A BEAR MARKET?

Without fools he'd be bussing tables.

There are times when your ignorance of the subjects on which you opine betray a stupefying vacuousness. This is one such occasion.


 
Considering how many times we saved Europe's bacon, I don't think that the recent goof-ups of our leaders (and their leaders, as has been noted) put us in their debt. :rolleyes:
 
Considering how many times we saved Europe's bacon, I don't think that the recent goof-ups of our leaders (and their leaders, as has been noted) put us in their debt. :rolleyes:
Hm. Okay. I'll bite. How many times have we saved Europe? More times than they saved us? Like, say, France helping us create this country in the first place? I think that puts us in their debt, so let's say WWI makes it even-steven there. Then there's WWII. Do you think we *really* wanted the Nazis to win and take over all of Europe?

But, okay, we rode in and saved them. And then all those European nations backed us up against Russia and China time and time again. They loaned us their good will, their votes, their military time and again as we headed into all those little wars we decided we wanted to fight here and there. I think that more or less makes it even-steven, again.

In short, Sev, you can't have Europe keep paying and paying and forgiving and forgiving our mistakes because we helped them out in two wars we probably wanted to fight in anyway.

As for my original remark--I'm kinda amazed at how seriously people took it. Do I need to put [HUMOR!] after making remarks like "our bad" and "oops!" in order for people to get that this was a light-hearted apology and responding to the accusation in the article about people blaming the U.S.? On the other hand, I was serious about the fact that I don't think the U.S. has yet to think about being part of a global economy and how our markets, debts, etc. affect the world. We are self centered. As your post, Sev, more than proves. Americans struting about saying, "we saved your bacon, you owe us!" is why we're so often labeled "ugly" and end up fighting all those little wars against people who hate us.

Or was that [HUMOR]? :rolleyes:
 
Hm. Okay. I'll bite. How many times have we saved Europe? More times than they saved us? Like, say, France helping us create this country in the first place? I think that puts us in their debt, so let's say WWI makes it even-steven there. Then there's WWII. Do you think we *really* wanted the Nazis to win and take over all of Europe?

But, okay, we rode in and saved them. And then all those European nations backed us up against Russia and China time and time again. They loaned us their good will, their votes, their military time and again as we headed into all those little wars we decided we wanted to fight here and there. I think that more or less makes it even-steven, again.

In short, Sev, you can't have Europe keep paying and paying and forgiving and forgiving our mistakes because we helped them out in two wars we probably wanted to fight in anyway.

As for my original remark--I'm kinda amazed at how seriously people took it. Do I need to put [HUMOR!] after making remarks like "our bad" and "oops!" in order for people to get that this was a light-hearted apology and responding to the accusation in the article about people blaming the U.S.? On the other hand, I was serious about the fact that I don't think the U.S. has yet to think about being part of a global economy and how our markets, debts, etc. affect the world. We are self centered. As your post, Sev, more than proves. Americans struting about saying, "we saved your bacon, you owe us!" is why we're so often labeled "ugly" and end up fighting all those little wars against people who hate us.

Or was that [HUMOR]? :rolleyes:

You forget the Marshall Plan and the fact that NATO has been more about us protecting them than vice versa. That despite frequent insults and slaps such as those given us by de Gaulle under his regime.

Not to mention that most of the major European powers adopted foreign policies hostile to the US for much of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

But I get that you're being facetious.

I'm just not keen on apologizing for being American. :devil::rolleyes:
 
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TRYSAIL

Well, I read about Warren Buffett, and what I read confirms what I posted. Maybe youre referring to the fact Buffett pays 19% of his income for taxes, and his employees pay 33%. Maybe youre referring to how he offshores 99% of his income to avoid taxes.

I applaud the man for his fortune, buts how he accrued it is hardly genius.
 
...Maybe youre referring to how he offshores 99% of his income to avoid taxes.

... how he accrued it is hardly genius.

I don't know what you read, but your facts are wrong.
When in doubt, go to the original documents:
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html

See also:
Train, John. The Midas Touch. New York, 1987.
Lowenstein, Roger. Buffett: The Making of An American Capitalist. New York, 1995.
Schoeder, Alice. The Snowball: Warren Buffett and The Business of Life. New York, 2008.


 
Warren has sat on his fat ass until the time was ripe to collect the fruit from the Bear Market tree. Thats his racket. It isnt noble or wise. Its what he does.

What sort of practical advice is: ONLY BUY IN A BEAR MARKET?

Without fools he'd be bussing tables.
Perhaps, of course there is not now, nor has there ever been any real shortage of fools, so it would seem a safe bet.
 
I'm just not keen on apologizing for being American. :devil::rolleyes:

Ignoring the fact that it was posted in fun:

she was apologizing for something that some Americans did, not for being American. There's a difference.

:rolleyes:
 
Agreed that fund managers are looking only at the short-term profit picture.

Why?

Who set up an environment where "maximizing shareholder value" is the friggin' mission statement of corporations, instead of taking an approach that balances gain against basic financial fundamentals? An environment where a fund manager is only as good as his or her last quarter?

Who taught the CEOs and CFOs, when they were but aspiring MBAs, that having cash on hand to meet revenue shortfalls is a bad thing?

Who decided that leveraging debt to a ridiculous degree was a sound strategy?

I have no problem with the idea that corporations can measure their success in maximizing shareholder value by outperforming certain benchmarks. But we're now reaping the whirlwind of taking that idea to extremes.
There is singular lack of recognition of the existence of logical limits to both the acquisition and benefits of capital accumulation for its' own sake, in spite of the fact that every other science recognizes the existence of logical limits.

When it breaks down, making money is always seen as an individual rather than a group effort - this mythical narrative excuses far too much diseconomic behavior for the sake of short term profit - there is more to living than profit and loss, and the reductionist view that capital profit and loss are all that there is to it means that we serve capital rather than making it serve us.

It doesn't really matter what economic ideology you adhere to here, capitalism has been demonstrated to be perfectly compatible with social justice at various point in history, but it isn't magic, and it isn't automatic - in any economic system - they are all human institutions at the bottom, merely tools to achieve desired results.

The problem is, as it has always been: what results and who desires them?
 
Perhaps, of course there is not now, nor has there ever been any real shortage of fools, so it would seem a safe bet.

Was that absolutely necessary? :rolleyes:

If it was then you can kiss my "xssve"!
:D
 
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