To all you Americans who don't own a home

[Fawkin'Injun]

I started out of the Houston Salvation Army...

I drop money in the bucket every fawkin' time I pass and I'm not talking change buddy.

It's like I tell my students when I nail them for lack of training. Anybody can come up with an excuse. Successful people come up with results.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

What's so bad about the sticks?

I live in the sticks.

Good property values, great markup if you have a good eye for property...

What's so bad? Let me enumerate from most critical to least.....

There's no access to a hospital within 20 miles. Law enforcement takes a half hour to show up if there's a problem. The post office is out of reach. No grocery stores except a few grossly overpriced minimarts here and there. Merchants in the sticks prefer to gouge their customers because most people would choose to go to them rather than drive xx miles into the city where competition keeps the prices down.

And as far as unimportant luxuries? No broadband.

BTW another reason immigrants do well in the United States, aside from collecting welfare and food stamps right off, is they form ethnic communities that support each other.

Now I'd love to get a few Amerikuns together and form an ethnic community where we pool our resources into living in one place and building a business together. What are the odds I could actually do that? I've got skills I could contribute. Who's game?

 

[Ishmael]

I started out of the Houston Salvation Army...

I drop money in the bucket every fawkin' time I pass and I'm not talking change buddy.

It's like I tell my students when I nail them for lack of training. Anybody can come up with an excuse. Successful people come up with results.

Yup. If you look hard enough and long enough anyone can come up with a thousand reasons NOT to do something.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

What's so bad? Let me enumerate from most critical to least.....

There's no access to a hospital within 20 miles. Law enforcement takes a half hour to show up if there's a problem. The post office is out of reach. No grocery stores except a few grossly overpriced minimarts here and there. Merchants in the sticks prefer to gouge their customers because most people would choose to go to them rather than drive xx miles into the city where competition keeps the prices down.

And as far as unimportant luxuries? No broadband.

BTW another reason immigrants do well in the United States, aside from collecting welfare and food stamps right off, is they form ethnic communities that support each other.

Now I'd love to get a few Amerikuns together and form an ethnic community where we pool our resources into living in one place and building a business together. What are the odds I could actually do that? I've got skills I could contribute. Who's game?

This post is priceless. Has to be saved for posterity and future reference.

Ishmael

 

[Pookie]

What's so bad? Let me enumerate from most critical to least.....

There's no access to a hospital within 20 miles. Law enforcement takes a half hour to show up if there's a problem. The post office is out of reach. No grocery stores except a few grossly overpriced minimarts here and there. Merchants in the sticks prefer to gouge their customers because most people would choose to go to them rather than drive xx miles into the city where competition keeps the prices down.

And as far as unimportant luxuries? No broadband.

BTW another reason immigrants do well in the United States, aside from collecting welfare and food stamps right off, is they form ethnic communities that support each other.

Now I'd love to get a few Amerikuns together and form an ethnic community where we pool our resources into living in one place and building a business together. What are the odds I could actually do that? I've got skills I could contribute. Who's game?

OMFG. This one is a classic.

 

[JinXed]

What's so bad about the sticks?

I live in the sticks.

Good property values, great markup if you have a good eye for property...

The cost of real estate around here is unreal. A home bought for around $50,000, here, would cost at least $100,000 in a bigger area.

People were always amazed at how much we bought our first home for; our mortgage was $10 less per month than the rent we'd been paying for the 2 years prior.

 

[zipman]

It's like I tell my students when I nail them for lack of training. Anybody can come up with an excuse. Successful people come up with results.

Hell yes! You know, it's funny how many people don't get this simple concept.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Yup. If you look hard enough and long enough anyone can come up with a thousand reasons NOT to do something.

Ishmael

So why then are there so many Americans living below the poverty line? They're all stupid and lazy? And they don't vote Libertarian?

If your anecdotes and theories were so cut and dry simply we'd all be making a killing out there. But reality interferes greatly in your pollyanna world.

a) Among the wealthy land owners there are far too many Americans do not have enough money for a minimum down payment for a house;

b) There is a large population that lives under the poverty line;

c) Most Americans do not form supportive ethnic communities like the Cubans and others do. IOW, one Cuban's success depends on teamwork with a bunch of others. It doesn't matter if *I* am willing to do that, what matters is if my neighbor is willing to join me, and generally speaking, they're not That is out of my hands.

d) Immigrants often come here and live off public largesse while working under the table and not paying any taxes.

e) Your friends in the military get rent and medical care for free and they get to shop at the base exchange where the price of goods is even lower than Pak 'n Save or Wal Mart, and it's also all (for groceries) tax free. The rent and medical care alone amounts to around a $1000 savings per month. With that kind of money I could eventually jerk the market and/or come up with enough cash from a run to Vegas to own Literotica (and all your base) with it.

There's more, of course, but I'll just stick with that 5... there are already 200,000 other facts that you've dodged back in the Libertarians thread (like the fact that no company exists that provides disability insurance for people who can't contribute premiums ahead of time).

 

[Le Jacquelope]

This post is priceless. Has to be saved for posterity and future reference.

Ishmael

I come up with a battle plan for future wealth and you come up with a copout like this. That's just too funny on so many levels.

 

[zipman]

Oh and sigh, the rise in housing prices does not necessarily mean anything more than the fact that the landed gentry is flipping houses, buying and selling, and sometimes speculating.

Arise serfs, arise!


Throw off the yoke of the oppressive "Landed Gentry" in America!


End fiefdom in America Now!



Note: this doesn't apply to the majority of home owners from the lower and middle class, just the Landed Gentry!

 

[Pookie]

I come up with a battle plan for future wealth and you come up with a copout like this. That's just too funny on so many levels.

THIS is your "battle plan for future wealth"? LMFAO!

What's so bad? Let me enumerate from most critical to least.....

There's no access to a hospital within 20 miles. Law enforcement takes a half hour to show up if there's a problem. The post office is out of reach. No grocery stores except a few grossly overpriced minimarts here and there. Merchants in the sticks prefer to gouge their customers because most people would choose to go to them rather than drive xx miles into the city where competition keeps the prices down.

And as far as unimportant luxuries? No broadband.

BTW another reason immigrants do well in the United States, aside from collecting welfare and food stamps right off, is they form ethnic communities that support each other.

Now I'd love to get a few Amerikuns together and form an ethnic community where we pool our resources into living in one place and building a business together. What are the odds I could actually do that? I've got skills I could contribute. Who's game?

Your "battle plan" is nothing but excuses ... lame ones at that!

 

[bluespoke]

Arise serfs, arise!


Throw off the yoke of the oppressive "Landed Gentry" in America!


End fiefdom in America Now!



Note: this doesn't apply to the majority of home owners from the lower and middle class, just the Landed Gentry!

Always knew your country was riddled with the class system!

 

[zipman]

c) Most Americans do not form supportive ethnic communities like the Cubans and others do. IOW, one Cuban's success depends on teamwork with a bunch of others. It doesn't matter if *I* am willing to do that, what matters is if my neighbor is willing to join me, and generally speaking, they're not That is out of my hands.

LMFAO!

So you want your neighbors to help you achieve success even though you are not willing to do it yourself?

Ahhh, the joys of collectivism!

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Zipnuts your reading comprehension problems are acting up again.

Immigrants do not come here and succeed by their lonesome. They do it with the help of others in their community. They open a business with the help of family and friends, usually friends from within their own ethnic group: hence the term "ethnic community". This is true of immigrant Cubans, hispanics, Asians, Russians, etc. They're economically schizophrenic - they form a commune to increase their ability to thrive in the free market.

That is what I said. I'd be willing to do the same thing if there was another person willing to bunk in a house with me and help me set up a business based on the skills I have.

You need to learn how to read. And get a dictionary if it'll help you.

 

[zipman]

Zipnuts your reading comprehension problems are acting up again.

Immigrants do not come here and succeed by their lonesome. They do it with the help of others in their community. They open a business with the help of family and friends, usually friends from within their own ethnic group: hence the term "ethnic community". This is true of immigrant Cubans, hispanics, Asians, Russians, etc. They're economically schizophrenic - they form a commune to increase their ability to thrive in the free market.

That is what I said. I'd be willing to do the same thing if there was another person willing to bunk in a house with me and help me set up a business based on the skills I have.

You need to learn how to read. And get a dictionary if it'll help you.

No, you said "It doesn't matter if *I* am willing to do that, what matters is if my neighbor is willing to join me, and generally speaking, they're not That is out of my hands."

The one thing critical fact that you forgot to add about the immigrant communities is that they WORK HARD for their success. Funny how that concept was utterly absent in your post.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Zipnuts your reading comprehension is failing you. Again. The immigrant plan for success rarely works if only one immigrant is willing to work hard. It works if they all are willing to work hard together. They work together, and they live together under one roof. Because they're willing to work together.

Most Americans are individualistic and would not want to live under the roof with someone else aside from their spouse and (minor) children. Ever heard of the "nuclear" family?

That is why it only matters is if my neighbor is willing to join me. And it is a statement of fact. Immigrants generally cannot come in here and go it alone.

Now as for the fact that they work HARD for their success: hello, Zipnuts, I just said I have skills of my own to offer such a gathering. That's called HARD WORK einstein. Or, more accurately, skilled work. So HARD WORK was not absent in my post - but your reading comprehension was.

 

[bluespoke]

When you fail (consistently) to explain yourself it is not the readers reading comprehension that is called into question.

It's your ability to set out your argument clearly.

Time and again you fail and immediately call others reading skills into doubt. Or are you just making a blanket assertion that anyone who disagrees with you cannot read properly?

 

[zipman]

Zipnuts your reading comprehension is failing you. Again. The immigrant plan for success rarely works if only one immigrant is willing to work hard. It works if they all are willing to work hard together. They work together, and they live together under one roof. Because they're willing to work together.

Most Americans are individualistic and would not want to live under the roof with someone else aside from their spouse and (minor) children. Ever heard of the "nuclear" family?

That is why it only matters is if my neighbor is willing to join me. And it is a statement of fact. Immigrants generally cannot come in here and go it alone.

Now as for the fact that they work HARD for their success: hello, Zipnuts, I just said I have skills of my own to offer such a gathering. That's called HARD WORK einstein. Or, more accurately, skilled work. So HARD WORK was not absent in my post - but your reading comprehension was.

Bullshit! It is the "Hard Work" that does it. Most immigrants only live under one roof together until they can afford to get their own place, which only puts them on an even playing field with the rest of the lower class. From there, it is hard work, living frugally and saving money that enable their success. Immigrants come here and go it alone all the time.

Btw, having a skill IS NOT Hard Work. The amount of hours that you work and the effort you put in during those hours is what makes it hard work. A strong work ethic doesn't require skill either, just effort. Obviously, it's something you know little about or you wouldn't have gotten it wrong.

 

[JinXed]

Could you please get a new slag already, LT?

The Reading Comprehension one is not just old and lame, but never applicable when you use it.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To all you Americans who don't own a home

That's true.. I was using banks as a generic term.


If I go out tomorrow and attempt your great credit/10% down/30% of income theory and it doesn't work out I'm sure you'll have a new theory for me.

Ah hah. Greedy grabber citizens.
Once again you fall into the trap of "the rest of America is stupid and JazzManJim is smart."

I find that deliciously ironic in light of how you accuse me of doing it here.

Lack of job security contributes not only to loss of property due to foreclosures, but also a lot of crime. Crime rises alongside poverty. You know that, right?


Who's "our"?
There are and always have been plenty of homeless and renters alongside the landed gentry.

I want to buy a house pretty badly. But I know it takes a lot more than 10/30 to even get started. So do way too many other prospective buyers out there who dream of having a home of their own.

You shouldn't. Your imprecision makes whatever argument you may be trying to make much weaker.

I tell you what. You spend this week contacting three mortgage companies. Call them, tell them what you have, and what you make. I'll bet you 10 dollars right here on the board that every single one of them will tell you either that they can work you into a reasonable mortgage or give you an affirmative plan with a reasonable timetable to get you into one.

You keep talking about people who can't afford to get property? Who are these people? Where do they live. Right now, every single person who wants to own a home can do so. Period. It might not be an easy task for them. They may have to cut back on most if not all of their "extras", eat generic foods, and shop at WalMart for their clothes, but if they want that house, that's what they'll have to do. They may even have to move to where housing costs are more affordable for them. That's up to them. You continue to mistake being able to buy a house with being able to buy a house within your personally-set restrictions.

Oh, and crime and poverty do not directly correlate.

Now, as for your insult to me. I am not calling the rest of America stupid, nor am I calling myself smarter than anyone else (except you). What I am saying is that until very recently, there was no expectation of guaranteed job security. Workers knew that if their industry went bad, they could be out of work and would have to come up with another job. That did not stop them from pursuing their particular "American Dream" (which closely involved buying a house). They depended on themselves and their neighbors to ride out the hard times and generally that worked pretty well your erroneous protests aside (Yes, I know...Hoovertowns, no charities and churches and people ever give to poor people, blah, blah, blah).

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Bluespoke I never fail to say things very clearly to people. The fact is, you don't want to grasp what I'm saying because it's so damaging to your belief system.

In any case I'm not getting into another pointless debate about whether or not you can comprehend. My writing skills are already fairly well established where it counts on Lit.

Now as I said. Immigrants succeed because they have the help of others to help them get started. They don't just come here off the boat and boom! they get rich. They work hard and they have the help of others of their ethnic group - most importantly of all, they initially all cram under one roof, be it with relatives or not. Immigrants live by the extended family model, while Americans are aggressively nuclear.

I've got a skill or two that is potentially marketable (although I'm not the kind of person that goes out pushing people to "buy my product/service"). I've also got a job. So I could bunk up with 5 people in a place and save money on rent and utilities, until I can own a place of my own. But finding that 5 people is next to impossible seeing as Americans don't generally even like having roommates and will only do it out of dire necessity. In short, I'm willing, but others are not. No man is an island.

I've explained this one last time. IF you can't grasp it then please, get a dictionary and get properly acquainted with the words I'm using.

 

[JazzManJim]

Most Americans are individualistic and would not want to live under the roof with someone else aside from their spouse and (minor) children. Ever heard of the "nuclear" family?

It's nice to know that the good-sized section of the newspaper marked "roommates wanted" is entirely illusory.

That is why it only matters is if my neighbor is willing to join me. And it is a statement of fact. Immigrants generally cannot come in here and go it alone.

Umm....no. That's not true.

In fact, legal immigrants by law must be able to earn their own living or have someone willing to support them (essentially, as far as the welfare system is concerned, "going it alone").

Regardless, very few people "go it alone" in either housing arrangements or in work arrangements. If your measure of financial stability is the ability to live entirely unto yourself, you're going to find a surprisingly small number of people who fit the criteria.

Then again, I'm guessing that's your aim, isn't it?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To all you Americans who don't own a home

You shouldn't. Your imprecision makes whatever argument you may be trying to make much weaker.

And your factual errors render your arguments DOA.

Like so:

I tell you what. You spend this week contacting three mortgage companies. Call them, tell them what you have, and what you make. I'll bet you 10 dollars right here on the board that every single one of them will tell you either that they can work you into a reasonable mortgage or give you an affirmative plan with a reasonable timetable to get you into one.

With less than $2000 in money to my name (I spent it all wiping out medical and credit debts)?

Are you SURE you want to issue a challenge as insane as that?

You keep talking about people who can't afford to get property? Who are these people? Where do they live.

ROTFLMAO
Denial. Outright denial.
Walk outside sometime and look around.

And I mean outside that neighborhood with the $1 million homes.

Start out with the people who live near or below the poverty line. That should provide you with plenty of examples of people who can't afford to get property.

Right now, every single person who wants to own a home can do so. Period.

WRONG. Period.

It might not be an easy task for them. They may have to cut back on most if not all of their "extras", eat generic foods, and shop at WalMart for their clothes, but if they want that house, that's what they'll have to do. They may even have to move to where housing costs are more affordable for them. That's up to them. You continue to mistake being able to buy a house with being able to buy a house within your personally-set restrictions.

No, my personal set of restrictions are beside the point.

Oh, and crime and poverty do not directly correlate.

More denial, eh?

Now, as for your insult to me. I am not calling the rest of America stupid, nor am I calling myself smarter than anyone else (except you).

You vastly overestimate yourself.

What I am saying is that until very recently, there was no expectation of guaranteed job security.

There was also a lowered life expectancy too. I'm not saying the 2 are related, but I am saying that you have presented a piss poor case for why we as Americans should "go back to the old days" and chuck the progress we've made in the areas of stability and economic safety.

The days of "every man for himself" are long gone, and for good reason.

Workers knew that if their industry went bad, they could be out of work and would have to come up with another job.

And for a select few they managed to thrive in that environment.
But again you leave out those stuck below the poverty line because the constant layoffs left them unable to rise above their living expenses. And I'm not talking about Cable TV and a Lexus; I'm talking about rent, utilities and medical insurance.

Of course, unlike the rest of the civilized world, 41 million Americans are forced to choose between medical care and paying rent.

That did not stop them from pursuing their particular "American Dream" (which closely involved buying a house). They depended on themselves and their neighbors to ride out the hard times and generally that worked pretty well your erroneous protests aside (Yes, I know...Hoovertowns, no charities and churches and people ever give to poor people, blah, blah, blah).

They depended on their neighbors and that didn't do very well.

Which is why there were so many hobos and Hoovertowns back then.

And why you keep denying their existence.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

It's nice to know that the good-sized section of the newspaper marked "roommates wanted" is entirely illusory.

That is because of severe financial necessity, a last resort move. As soon as they can find a way to afford their own place by themselves, guess what? They do it.

You're certainly never going to find anyone among those posting "Roommate wanted" ads who are willing to pool their wealth with you and build a business, which is what Immigrants typically do. Not that I'm knocking them for doing that, far from it; I wish we could all do that.

Umm....no. That's not true.

In fact, legal immigrants by law must be able to earn their own living or have someone willing to support them (essentially, as far as the welfare system is concerned, "going it alone").

My aunt works in social services in Seattle, she happens to see them come off the boat and right onto the dole. And here in Sacramento there is no way you can tell me the <insert ethnic group here> that stand in front of me at the store with food stamps, have been earning their own living. Some live across the street from me and we sometimes trade food, I know some of them up in there do not work and they collect food stamps and AFDC for their babies. But they do cram a dozen people (including babies) in that house.

Regardless, very few people "go it alone" in either housing arrangements or in work arrangements. If your measure of financial stability is the ability to live entirely unto yourself, you're going to find a surprisingly small number of people who fit the criteria.

Then again, I'm guessing that's your aim, isn't it?

If you say so.
Like I said, I have skills to contribute to a money making business aside from the money I also earn in an IT job. I'd be willing to bunk with someone who's willing to pool resources to build a business or get real estate and start flipping land for profit. I cannot go it alone. Any takers?

BTW 12% of Americans live below the poverty line according to 2003 statistics. Some 14 million live 50% below that.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To all you Americans who don't own a home

And your factual errors render your arguments DOA.

Like so:

With less than $2000 in money to my name (I spent it all wiping out medical and credit debts)?

Are you SURE you want to issue a challenge as insane as that?


ROTFLMAO
Denial. Outright denial.
Walk outside sometime and look around.

And I mean outside that neighborhood with the $1 million homes.

Start out with the people who live near or below the poverty line. That should provide you with plenty of examples of people who can't afford to get property.


WRONG. Period.


No, my personal set of restrictions are beside the point.


More denial, eh?


You vastly overestimate yourself.


There was also a lowered life expectancy too. I'm not saying the 2 are related, but I am saying that you have presented a piss poor case for why we as Americans should "go back to the old days" and chuck the progress we've made in the areas of stability and economic safety.

The days of "every man for himself" are long gone, and for good reason.


And for a select few they managed to thrive in that environment.
But again you leave out those stuck below the poverty line because the constant layoffs left them unable to rise above their living expenses. And I'm not talking about Cable TV and a Lexus; I'm talking about rent, utilities and medical insurance.

Of course, unlike the rest of the civilized world, 41 million Americans are forced to choose between medical care and paying rent.


They depended on their neighbors and that didn't do very well.

Which is why there were so many hobos and Hoovertowns back then.

And why you keep denying their existence.

Wait. Do you have 2K or 10K (like you said you did earlier)? Which of these posts is the lie?

The rest of your post is pure screed and bullshit and I'm not going to spend an second of time trying to disprove it.