Tips to convey to a class in creative writing.

[AG31]

As some of you know, I don't attend to character or plot when I write my simple erotica. But I do thoroughly enjoy reading character and plot driven fiction. And I enjoy analyzing what it is that makes me enjoy a book and what it is that makes me want to put it down after five pages. I like to articulate the results of my analysis and often imagine passing my wisdom along to a writing class in college or some such thing.

Today I was reading a book that I have good reasons to believe was written by two authors, passing off the story between foci on different characters. Both authors had a respectable ear for dialogue. That is, they didn't do things like convey information to close acquaintances that they surely already knew (one of the things that makes me put the book down), but one author didn't make me enjoy the book the way the other one did with respect to that ear. I figured out that to have a really ejoyable ear for dialogue, your dialogue has to not only avoid errors (see above), but has to be embedded in the personality of the speaker. I was almost able to pinpoint exact examples of how the one author succeeded and the other failed, maybe that will come.

So my tip would be, "Make sure your dialogue reflects the personality of the speaker. Get yourself inside his or her head."

Anyway, do you have writing tips that you would pass on to aspiring writers if you had the chance?

 

[Lifestyle66]

Your writing will NEVER please everyone. But someone might like it. So, focus on writing better stories for those someones and ignore the haters.

 

[SimonDoom]

I would second what you wrote. When you write dialogue, imagine your characters as real people and always think about whether the words mirror and illustrate, and are true to, the character. Dialogue should sound natural. The other side of the coin is that you shouldn't over do it with dialogue. In real life, people gas on and talk about stuff that doesn't matter. If you wrote dialogue the way people actually talk, your story could get bogged down fast. Dialogue has to strike a balance between naturalness and economy.

 

[samhasstories]

I'd add to your point about personality in dialog with something that sounds obvious: your characters should have personality. I think often people write characters - especially side characters - as plot devices, not people. In the best writing, they feel real, they feel like they came from somewhere before they stepped onto the page and will be moving on to something else when they step off the page. The reader doesn't necessarily need to know what is, but the writer should, and when they do I think it comes through and gives the world some depth.

The other obvious-sounding advice I'd give is to read. Read often, read widely. Read fiction, read nonfiction, read page turners and plodding classics, read things outside of your style and inside of it. And then read some more.

 

[AG31]

If you wrote dialogue the way people actually talk, your story could get bogged down fast.

Important point.

 

[nice90sguy]

Dialogue has to strike a balance between naturalness and economy.

100%, but not just "economy" -- most people are very elliptical in their speech, and convey an awful lot of meaning in non-verbal ways when they're talking -- tone, gesture, facial expression etc. So the art of dialog writing is to allow the reader to infer the whole "speech act" from just the words spoken, adding puncuation and adverbs, when called for.

 

[AG31]

100%, but not just "economy" -- most people are very elliptical in their speech, and convey an awful lot of meaning in non-verbal ways when they're talking tone, gesture, facial expression etc. So the art of dialog writing is to allow the reader to infer the whole "speech act" from just the words spoken, adding puncuation and adverbs, when called for.

Thanks so much for "speech act."

 

[nice90sguy]

Thanks so much for "speech act."

It was coined by the guy in my avatar

 

[lustychimera]

Your writing will NEVER please everyone. But someone might like it. So, focus on writing better stories for those someones and ignore the haters.

The only stories that I've ever gotten emailed feedback from were the ones where I went hard into the kinks of the story. I had one person even write me a full page of ideas for the next part-- which was really really cool. But those stories also pissed off more than a few commenters.

The blander less potentially ones didn't get any real reaction either way at all, which is like, why am I even writing then?

 

[lustychimera]

100%, but not just "economy" -- most people are very elliptical in their speech, and convey an awful lot of meaning in non-verbal ways when they're talking -- tone, gesture, facial expression etc. So the art of dialog writing is to allow the reader to infer the whole "speech act" from just the words spoken, adding puncuation and adverbs, when called for.

My favorite is when a character's true emotions are never what's actually stated. It's a whole mood that's implied, but is too complex to articulate. Like a Tom Waits song.

 

[KeithD]

When you write dialogue, imagine your characters as real people

Even beyond that, become that character when quoted or in action during the story--to the extent you can. (It helps if you've had acting classes.)

 

[AG31]

Even beyond that, become that character when quoted or in action during the story--to the extent you can. (It helps if you've had acting classes.)

Yes, when I hit upon the idea that you have to get inside his or her head I also realized that it's not something I can easily do. I think I'd be a good editor, but I'm not a good writer beyond simple erotica.

 

[lovecraft68]

Listen to no one but your muse.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Important point.

All art makes decisions about what to put it and what to leave out. And audiences either "buy" (accept) it or not. Obviously there will be disagreements about almost any work. ("Pure trash." "A cult classic!") More on your points:

1. I've never taken a creative writing class. My own impression, based on the materials (advertising?) the schools themselves put out, is that they are too narrow, too self-referential, to be that useful. Are you own classmates going to be your rivals or your sycophants? Maybe both? You might learn more by just publishing it on-line (yes, Lit, among others) and seeing what the reaction is from people who've never met you.

2. Dialogue: writing it in first person is a useful technique. It took me a long time before I attempted female narrators. The readers either buy it or they don't. If I buy it, that's a good start. I think I understand something about Marion, the forty-two-year-old Reno moving van driver in my most recent story. It's not until the end that she reveals that she grew up in Indiana and has a college degree.

 

[gunhilltrain]

The only stories that I've ever gotten emailed feedback from were the ones where I went hard into the kinks of the story. I had one person even write me a full page of ideas for the next part-- which was really really cool. But those stories also pissed off more than a few commenters.

The blander less potentially ones didn't get any real reaction either way at all, which is like, why am I even writing then?

You wrote them because, I assume, you had a story you wanted to tell. That in itself is enough. I think there were only a couple of times in six years where I used a reader's suggestions. It happens, but it's an anomaly. If fact, the first time it took a year before I accidentally found the person's comment again.

 

[lustychimera]

You wrote them because, I assume, you had a story you wanted to tell. That in itself is enough. I think there were only a couple of times in six years where I used a reader's suggestions. It happens, but it's an anomaly. If fact, the first time it took a year before I accidentally found the person's comment again.

I just meant they felt so strongly about my story that they took probably 20 mins out of their day to send me some lovely feedback and ideas. (I actually did like their ideas, though. Stuff i hadn't considered.)

 

[gunhilltrain]

I just meant they felt so strongly about my story that they took probably 20 mins out of their day to send me some lovely feedback and ideas. (I actually did like their ideas, though. Stuff i hadn't considered.)

That I've never experienced. Even people who like what I've done have surely spent less then ten minutes, probably less than five, writing their comments. I appreciate them anyway. That person whose ideas I accepted only wrote about four lines if I remember correctly.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Listen to no one but your muse.

(Covers ears) LA LA LA!! CAN"T HEAR YOUUUU!!! : P

 

[SimonDoom]

100%, but not just "economy" -- most people are very elliptical in their speech, and convey an awful lot of meaning in non-verbal ways when they're talking -- tone, gesture, facial expression etc. So the art of dialog writing is to allow the reader to infer the whole "speech act" from just the words spoken, adding puncuation and adverbs, when called for.

Agreed. This ties in with what I call my "Zen Garden" philosophy of writing fiction. It doesn't have to emulate nature exactly. It consists of the artful placement of just the right elements to create a convincing simulation of reality.

 

[intim8]

Not specific to dialog, but one of the things I've had to learn is to let your readers discover the story as they go. One of the things new writers tend to want to do is to explain the story first, then start the story.

Rough draft, yeah lay it all out as it comes into your head. But then go back and weave that into the story.

 

[intim8]

Agreed. This ties in with what I call my "Zen Garden" philosophy of writing fiction. It doesn't have to emulate nature exactly. It consists of the artful placement of just the right elements to create a convincing simulation of reality.

Fiction, any art really, is a selective representation of reality. What you focus on and emphasize, what you imply, and what you ignore all lead the reader down the path you want them to follow.

 

[enbiji]

Don't write poetry, nobody reads it.

 

[intim8]

Another tip I'm starting to learn is that while what a character wants is vital to the plot, it is what he needs that drives the character development. They're usually not the same, and it is likely that the character doesn't actually know what he needs, or that it is something besides what he wants.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Don't write poetry, nobody reads it.

Wrong.......

 

[pink_silk_glove]

What I have come to learn is that reading is an emotional experience. If someone likes romance, it's for the emotions, the intimacy, the devotion etc. If someone likes adventure, they like the rush, the danger, the adrenaline etc. If the reader doesn't feel something when they read they will be bored. So what the writer is doing is conveying emotions onto the page that hopefully the reader will pick up. If you are not feeling those same emotions when you are writing the words, it will be extremely difficult for you to convey them to the reader. when I write my character in an exciting situation, my heart beats faster and my blood pumps. When I write my character feeling empty, I feel that emptiness. I have on several occasions cried with my characters when putting them in sad or hopeless situations.

If you really want to give the reader that emotional experience, you have to feel those emotions as deeply as possible when you write them.