Time to set some limits

[bg23]

By Pamela Bone
July 18, 2005

For the past two years Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad has preached in a London mosque, calling for Muslims to wage a holy war against Britain. Seemingly no one in tolerant, free-speech Britain has thought it a good idea to stop him. At a public meeting last December, he vowed that if Western governments did not change their policies, Muslims would give them "a 9/11 day after day after day".

It is almost certain now that last week's attacks on the London underground were carried out by young British men of Pakistani background. British intelligence estimates that 10,000 to 15,000 Muslims living in Britain support al-Qaeda.

It was not supposed to be like this. The idea was that tolerance and liberalism towards migrants would in turn make migrants tolerant and good citizens. Instead, Britain became a haven for terrorists. Did the bomb blasts in the London Underground mark the death of multiculturalism?

Multiculturalism means that migrants are not only allowed but encouraged to retain and celebrate their own cultures. To do so they receive financial help from governments to build schools and places of worship and community centres. Canada started it. We've had it here and it's mainly been wonderful, enriching the whole of the society. But is it now time to start thinking more about its limits? Couscous yes, child marriage no?
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The acts of terror carried out by Islamic extremists lead to hostility against and suspicion of all Muslims, which is grossly unfair. The vast majority of Muslims, as political leaders rightly hasten to assure us after every terrorist attack, are decent, law-abiding citizens. I believe this is true. Indeed, all the Muslims I know personally are nice, decent, law-abiding citizens, going about their business like other Australians.

But in Melbourne the day after September 11, Muslim students at a state high school danced on the desks with glee. What are these young people being taught by their decent and law-abiding parents? Literature being sold at a store attached to a Brunswick mosque tells Muslims they should "hate and take as enemies" Jews, Christians, atheists and secularists, and that they should "learn to hate in order to properly love Allah". How many Muslims complain when they see this kind of hate literature? Did the large Sydney audience complain when Sheikh Feiz Muhammad charged recently that because of the way they dressed, women had only themselves to blame if they were raped? No, they applauded him.

A group of Muslim organisations did, however, condemn Muhammad's speech. Other Muslim clerics are preaching moderation. And Muslim leaders are coming out more often to distance themselves from radical Islamist ideology. They will need to do so even more strongly now. Of course generalisations about Muslims, who come from many ethnic backgrounds, should not be made. But it is also clear that many - how many? no one knows - Muslims feel entitled to hate non-Muslims.

Should we blame multiculturalism for this? Does it mean we can't any longer afford to be as nice and welcoming as we would like to be? I hope not, for as others have observed, if we change our values in response to the threat of terrorism, the terrorists will have won.

We are not alone in asking these questions. In Britain today they are certainly being asked. In Canada, there is controversy about attempts to establish separate sharia courts to hear family law matters. In Europe there are big debates about the best ways to integrate the continent's 12 million Muslims. In Germany, where six "honour killings" have taken place this year, the Government has been accused of allowing Islamic fundamentalism to flourish under a policy of "false tolerance".

The Netherlands, once known for its liberalism, has been gripped by racial and religious tension since the murder of film-maker Theo van Gogh, after he made a film critical of Islam.

A Somali-born politician, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has spoken out against the treatment of women in Dutch Muslim communities, is now living under protection. Muslims (mainly African) make up 5.5 per cent of the Dutch population but more than half the women in battered women's shelters.

In Norway, where young Muslim women have been forced by their families to marry cousins who can then come to live in Norway, a law has been passed requiring residents who want to bring spouses into the country to demonstrate the marriage is voluntary. This has resulted in a dramatic drop in the number of overseas-born spouses.

It is interesting that in France, the widely criticised ban on the wearing of headscarves in state schools has been fairly well accepted, according to reports. (I am not advocating such a ban here.) It is also interesting that in the US, where migrants are simply expected to accept the American dream, unlike in Britain, there appear to be few home-grown Islamic terrorists.

I have long valued multiculturalism. But there is something wrong when second and third-generation Muslims can believe the society in which they grew up - indeed, into which they were born - is evil to the core and needs to be destroyed. There is something wrong with multiculturalism when Muslims can attend mosques in Europe that are more radical than some in the Middle East.

At the very least, we should insist on the right to know what is being taught in schools and mosques. Perhaps it is time to say, it's been wonderful, but a few things need to be made clear. Perhaps it is time to say, you are welcome, but this is the way it is here.

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i felt this was an interesting article.

i agree more or less with the premise of it...but i'm curious as to what she means by limits...what changes should be implemented and so forth.

thoughts?

 

[LillyO]

link

i felt this was an interesting article.

i agree more or less with the premise of it...but I'm curious as to what she means by limits...what changes should be implemented and so forth.

thoughts?

My thought is it's strange no one answered.


I wish I could remember a quote I once heard from a Canadian politician of Sikh heritage on multiculturalism and tolerance, but I don't remember where or even when I heard it, and I am way to lazy to search for it.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

The problem is that in the course of rolling back the more outrageous vestiges of multiculturalism, Britain is now threatened with also swinging toward the internment camp mentality...

 

[overthebow]

Ethics has two parts: rights and responsibilities. In the development of Western philosophy, we have taken a long run at rights, mostly because that side of the question had not received much attention. Prior to the Magna Carta, most rights existed on the whims of the ruler, but the responsibilities did not.

The US Constitution has the Bill of Rights, but not a Bill of Responsibilites. Currently, those responsibilities exist only various legal codes and case law. The Bill of Rights was a statement about what protections we, the people, will give each other. Perhaps the time has come to also elevate the discussion of the responsibiliies we, the people, have to each other.

 

[topale]

i felt this was an interesting article.

i agree more or less with the premise of it...but i'm curious as to what she means by limits...what changes should be implemented and so forth.

thoughts?

It is interesting bg.

My thoughts/expertise on politics is crude at best. My comments will unfortunately follow suit. This is why I pretty much steer clear of politial topics but speaking from an American point of view:
In the aftermath of 9/11, I thought for sure attacks on that scale would continue to occur with shocking regularity. I felt that maybe the safest thing to do would be deport any people of Muslim descent. But then I realized that you can't really do that without making the situation worse. Not to mention that it would go against our civil liberties. I don't think singleing and deporting one particular group of people is the proper way to go. But I think I would support some drastic changes in our immigrations. Islamic radicals have caused changes in this country that put good Americans freedoms on a shorter list.
I guess I'm trying to say that instead of singleing out Muslim immigrants we should look at immigration as a whole. Maybe close our borders to all until we can sort this shit out.

 

[Bohemian Blue]

I'm not so trusting that the Muslim faith isn't anti-everyone else. One of my best friends in high school was Muslim and I even read the Koran, but one memory sticks out in my head... I pseudo-jokingly asked him if Jihad was called would he kill even me....he hesitated for a bit before answering,"No...no I don't think I would."

The fact that he even hesitated and the fact that he said 'he didn't think he would' showing doubt, stayed with me...and we soon went our separate ways when I moved. And the thing that gets me was he was about the nicest guy around. Just like the description of one of the London suicide bombers.

Look at what happened when that suicide bomber killed a bunch of children. Who was blamed ? Americans..just for being there. That's a fucked up mentality.

 

[sexy-girl]

i disagree with the tone of the article

it's not the time to try and marginalize muslims in our society but for us all to pull together

it's not a them vs us issue ... muslims in london and england are facing fighting against fundamentalism too ... a leading cleric at a london mosque was attacked and beaten up a few weeks before the bombings last thursday

clerics have been in contact with police to deal with and warn police about this hardline minority

london in my opinion is probably one of the best multi cultural cities in the world ... we have a large british muslim community in london and the vast majority are strongly against the recent bombings ... one of the bombs 2 weeks ago was infact only round the corner from a big muslim area in london ... they're getting bombed too

i think we need to remember they are british as much as the rest of us ... london is their city as much as mine ... and our government needs to respect their views as much as anyone elses

 

[LeahLo519]

Look at what happened when that suicide bomber killed a bunch of children. Who was blamed ? Americans..just for being there. That's a fucked up mentality.

Thank you!

 

[grungalunga]

Someone just got arrested for writing a threatening letter to the President of the united states. if memory serves, he was a white guy who wanted to blow the President up with himself.

One guy made one idle threat, and before he could begin to follow through with it, he was arrested.

Now if an entire group of dangerous people were talking about slamming planes into buildings, blowing up trams, nothing is done. We have to wait until they do something, otherwise its racial profiling.

Where is the logic in that? One little person makes a threat against one other person, and they call down the thunder on him. But an entire group of nutjobs threaten to bring mass carnage, and not a damn thing is done.

Im all in favor of the patriot act. The way i see it, if you arent doing anything illegal, you have nothing to hide.

 

[topale]

Im all in favor of the patriot act. The way i see it, if you arent doing anything illegal, you have nothing to hide.

Posting on a porn board ain't illegal. But I goddam bet ur ass big brother knows who is who here. call me paranoid