Three kinds of writing

[SamScribble]

In between drinking numerous glasses of wine, I have spent a good part of the recent holiday season reading. Much of what I have read has disappointed me. Much has not, in my opinion, been worth the effort. But my reading has led me to conclude that there are three reasonably distinct kinds of writing.

There is writing in which the ‘workings’ – the vocabulary, the structures, the punctuation – are largely invisible. That is to say it has been done so unobtrusively that all I really notice are the characters and their story. I like this kind of writing.

There is a second kind of writing which, when reading it, causes me to occasionally pause to admire the author’s craft. ‘Hey, nice work,’ I say to myself before returning to the characters and their story. In a funny sort of way, I also enjoy this kind of writing. There are things to be learned.

And then there is the kind of writing in which the workings are not only obvious, but also distracting. ‘Why did she do that?’ I ask myself. And I start thinking about how the sentence might be simplified or the punctuation might be made less obtrusive. By the time I have reached some sort of conclusion, I have often lost interest in the characters and their story altogether.

And now I am going to pour myself another glass of wine.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Yeah yeah yeah. I have to agree with this. 'Invisible' writing is magic. I don't how it's done or how it really happens - Len Deighton's Spy Story is the most organized, controlled, structured thing imaginable; it is literally an actual Naval Department War Game scenario turned into narrative fiction. And yet, after a few paragraphs, everything disappear and just the story remains and it flows and it keeps on flowing until you have to wring out the very last drop by re-reading the last few paragraphs over until you get the real point. Which is namely, that the author is a fucking genius.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Okay, guys, gimme some titles to sample.

 

[SamScribble]

Okay, guys, gimme some titles to sample.

Off the top of my head, James …

Read without noticing the workings:
Last Orders – Graham Swift
What’s Bred in the Bone – Robertson Davies
Smiley’s People – John le Carré
Our Man in Havana – Graham Greene
The Day of the Jackal – Frederick Forsyth
Pretty much anything by Elmore Leonard (although one is usually aware of the ever-changing POV)
‘Brief Encounters on the Inland Waterway’– Kurt Vonnegut Jr
‘Night in Tunisia’ – Neil Jordan

Read and pause occasionally to admire the workings:
The Ginger Man – J P Donleavy
Ragtime – E L Doctorow
Our Sunshine – Robert Drewe (a particular favourite)

Read and get distracted by the workings … Where shall I begin?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Off the top of my head, James …

Read without noticing the workings:
Last Orders – Graham Swift
What’s Bred in the Bone – Robertson Davies
Smiley’s People – John le Carré
Our Man in Havana – Graham Greene
The Day of the Jackal – Frederick Forsyth
Pretty much anything by Elmore Leonard (although one is usually aware of the ever-changing POV)
‘Brief Encounters on the Inland Waterway’– Kurt Vonnegut Jr
‘Night in Tunisia’ – Neil Jordan

Read and pause occasionally to admire the workings:
The Ginger Man – J P Donleavy
Ragtime – E L Doctorow
Our Sunshine – Robert Drewe (a particular favourite)

Read and get distracted by the workings … Where shall I begin?

Thank you

 

[NaokoSmith]

My favourite book is TE Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom. I adore the perfectly balanced Oxford prose. I also think it's a deeply immoral work, as the classical sentence structure is exactly the same whether Lawrence describes a line of camels crossing the desert or when he is raped by a Turkish commandant. It's all objective, balanced, crystal clear - flawless. Surely in the throes of being raped, there should be some flaw in the writing to convey the experience?

At the other extreme I was just re-reading a Georgette Heyer novel. The punctuation is awful, many of the characters are simpering stereotypes and the ending is entirely predictable, you only wonder how, not if, they are all going to get to the happy ending. Yet it's a charming and compulsive read! That's really not fair, LOL, when many of us try so hard to work at our punctuation and characterisation and keep our readers in suspense.

(Finally finished off bottle of Chateau-Neuf-du-Pape today, having drunk it successively with Navarin Printanier on New Year's Day, and a filet de boeuf en croûte yesterday, then I had a small half glass left which I drank with some Brie I had obtained at a vastly reduced price in the supermarket )

 

[Hypoxia]

My favourite book is TE Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom.

A flawed masterpiece. The raped-by-a-Turk scene is highly disputed. As it happens, I have a copy of the pre-7PoW edition, the USA pub titled REVOLT IN THE DESERT, issued to finance printing the full 7PoW. REVOLT trims away all the excess. I keep REVOLT on the shelf next to my Mary Renault books, IMHO less-flawed masterpieces. Ain't classics great?

 

[NaokoSmith]

A flawed masterpiece. The raped-by-a-Turk scene is highly disputed. As it happens, I have a copy of the pre-7PoW edition, the USA pub titled REVOLT IN THE DESERT, issued to finance printing the full 7PoW. REVOLT trims away all the excess. I keep REVOLT on the shelf next to my Mary Renault books, IMHO less-flawed masterpieces. Ain't classics great?

Awww, you haven't gone yet.
*hug*
You are a great classic, hope you pop back frequently.

I love classical writing. It makes me want to cry when I hear a choir sing 'agnus dei qui tollis peccata mundi'. The way the Latin language works is just awesome.

 

[SamScribble]

I love classical writing. It makes me want to cry when I hear a choir sing 'agnus dei qui tollis peccata mundi'. The way the Latin language works is just awesome.

Hello, Honey

When I were a lad (just yesterday, really), the village barber had a selection of 'gents magazines' for the older patrons and a selection of Classics Illustrated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics_Illustrated#British_series) for us younger fry. And so, while waiting for our short back and sides, we were introduced to The Three Musketeers, Moby Dick, Don Quixote, and other classics.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The problem with Latin is its crudity. It wasn't made for description and nuances.

 

[JackLuis]

Trail of the Truth

I was familiar with the 7POW previously mentioned by way of Lowell Thomas' book "With Lawrence in Arabia", an account of Mr. Thomas written to advance Allied propaganda during WW1. Thomas was attached to the Arab army to photograph and document it's "valiant struggle against the despotic Turks."

I have a 1924 edition of the WLIA in my collection, inherited from my god-father, and recently reread it. I researched some reviews of 7POW and read a Wall Street Journal review of the book which said that Lawrence exaggerated his actual role in the Arab Revolt but does not recognize that Lawrence, being British, would be predisposed to do so.

I also found a youtube of the movie "A Dangerous Man" about Lawrence's' post war endeavors. I only watched a bit of it, but it is interesting. After watching the way that the Brits and French treated the Arabs after the war, I contemplated the meanings of Humility and Hubris.

I continuing my research I found this site "Literary Devices" and thought it might prove useful to those who, like myself, have little education in the art of writing. The page I found interesting is about Romance, a subject often used at Lit, but probably imprecisely.

Definition of Romance

Etymologically, romance comes from Anglo-Norman and Old French romanz, romans, which means a story of chivalry and love. The word “romance” also refers to romantic love. As far as literature in concerned, the term has entirely a different concept associated with it. It means romantic stories with chivalrous feats of heroes and knights. Romance describes chivalry and courtly love, comprising stories, which deal legends of duty, courage, boldness, battles and rescue of damsels in distress.

One never knows where a trail will lead one. Thanks Sam and Naoko.

 

[oggbashan]

I was familiar with the 7POW previously mentioned by way of Lowell Thomas' book "With Lawrence in Arabia", an account of Mr. Thomas written to advance Allied propaganda during WW1. Thomas was attached to the Arab army to photograph and document it's "valiant struggle against the despotic Turks."

I have a 1924 edition of the WLIA in my collection, inherited from my god-father, and recently reread it. I researched some reviews of 7POW and read a Wall Street Journal review of the book which said that Lawrence exaggerated his actual role in the Arab Revolt but does not recognize that Lawrence, being British, would be predisposed to do so.

...

Lawrence's exaggeration was a response to the official British line that the Arab irregular fighters achieved next to nothing. He knew better. Their raids might have been small scale but their impact on the Turkish forces was disproportionately large, forcing them to spread their forces widely.

Lawrence and the Arabs showed the way for asymetrical warfare but the lessons were not learned until later in WW2.

The Arab regular forces also had more impact than the British Army would admit.

He was also very angry that the Arabs suffered many broken promises in the post war rearrangement of the Middle East. Those broken promises and French, British and American actions in redrawing boundaries are still causing problems today - and Lawrence knew they would.

His writing was an attempt to redress the official disdain for what the Arabs had achieved, and as such was special pleading, not just for himself, but for those who fought with him and in other more conventional warfare.

At the time and after the war he was regarded as a bloody nuisance by the British authorities.

 

[JackLuis]

-
Lawrence and the Arabs showed the way for asymetrical warfare but the lessons were not learned until later in WW2.

At the time and after the war he was regarded as a bloody nuisance by the British authorities.

Yes Ogg, all true.

The hubris of British authorities as well as the French is striking at the time and we are still paying the price for it.

The movie "A Dangerous Man" makes this abundantly clear.

 

[Hypoxia]

At the time and after the war he was regarded as a bloody nuisance by the British authorities.

I recall reading that he was offered (and refused) the PM-ship. Truth or myth?

Tangent: An author's quality of writing may promote their ideas far beyond anything deserved. Freud's impact on psychology was due less to his id-ego-superego theological model having any connection to observable reality, than to his agility with language. He painted such wonderful word-pictures! I'd count this in a fourth kind of writing: misguided persuasion via over-clarity.

I don't seek a huge audience. I tend not to disappear behind clarity. I like to insert snarky asides, personal comments, little diversions hopefully provoking readers to consider the words. Do I need to grow out of this?

 

[JackLuis]

-
I don't seek a huge audience. I tend not to disappear behind clarity. I like to insert snarky asides, personal comments, little diversions hopefully provoking readers to consider the words. Do I need to grow out of this?

Consider Sir Terry Pratchet's use of language to provoke readers. He was masterful at it, in a humorous way.

 

[oggbashan]

I recall reading that he was offered (and refused) the PM-ship. Truth or myth?

...

He was offered a junior political position in Arabia before events made that impossible, was an advisor to Winston Churchill, who was then out of favour politically, but he was offered nothing substantial.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I continuing my research I found this site "Literary Devices" and thought it might prove useful to those who, like myself, have little education in the art of writing. The page I found interesting is about Romance, a subject often used at Lit, but probably imprecisely.

One never knows where a trail will lead one. Thanks Sam and Naoko.

You are always welcome, sugar.

One of the best writers about the romance tradition of writing was CS Lewis (author of the Narnia kids' books). He wrote very famous literary crit accounts of medieval romance writing. I will have a look and see if I've unpacked any of my copies of his books yet. Or can anyone recommend a key text by Lewis that is the One That Must Be Read?

(signifying Romaunt de la Rose - LOL.)

 

[jomar]

Patrick O'Brian is another masterful writer. His word choices are exquisite and nuanced.

 

[Hypoxia]

I have a strange list of masterful fiction writers in very different modes. John D McDonald. Mary Renault. Robert A Heinlein. Barbara Hambly. Andrei Codrescu. Anais Nin. Tom Robbins. James Tiptree Jr (Alice Sheldon). Gregory Benford. Saki (H.H. Munro). Some disappear in their words. Some don't. Nobody's perfect.

 

[legerdemer]

Tangent: An author's quality of writing may promote their ideas far beyond anything deserved. Freud's impact on psychology was due less to his id-ego-superego theological model having any connection to observable reality, than to his agility with language. He painted such wonderful word-pictures! I'd count this in a fourth kind of writing: misguided persuasion via over-clarity.

A lot of bad or mediocre science gets (over)sold this way.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I have a strange list of masterful fiction writers in very different modes. .... Saki (H.H. Munro).

Saki is a brilliant short story writer. He has these sharp odd little ideas and will set up a tiny scenario in which a group of characters play off each other: the acerbic witty young man plays tricks on the staid snobbish dowager, underscoring the meaningless of much social convention. He has this masterly touch of putting in some small detail that brings it all to vivid life. A classic example is his Occasional Garden story, when the person doesn't just say that her garden was destroyed by vandals, she says suffragettes came tramping through it! You are suddenly so in the moment with that small excessively detailed piece of information. His stories are like miniature paintings: jewelled and perfect.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I recall reading that he was offered (and refused) the PM-ship. Truth or myth?

Tangent: An author's quality of writing may promote their ideas far beyond anything deserved. Freud's impact on psychology was due less to his id-ego-superego theological model having any connection to observable reality, than to his agility with language. He painted such wonderful word-pictures! I'd count this in a fourth kind of writing: misguided persuasion via over-clarity.

I don't seek a huge audience. I tend not to disappear behind clarity. I like to insert snarky asides, personal comments, little diversions hopefully provoking readers to consider the words. Do I need to grow out of this?

Naaah. Freud introduced insight to self-improvement. Before Freud people improved from prudent breeding, as cattle, horses, and dogs do. Insight was replaced by drugs.

My 4th great grandfather was richer than God. He had 11 children, including 4 daughters. One girl died of Yellow Fever, one married a total loser, and her father bought two of the finest men available, for the other daughters. And the men were excellent specimens. Both came from prominent Virginia families, both were college graduates, both were war heroes, and both were wealthy. The deals were made when the girls were children. He paid the loser to go away after siring two homosexual sons. That line went extinct.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Graham Greene - 100% endorse that one.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

CN d P? Clos du Mesnil, for me. I prefer this one. Easier to get, I think...

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

What am I talking about?! Seriously!

I meant 'Clefs Des Papes.' More complex than the 'Clos' which admittedly, is VERY easy to drink - this IS the grape version of the seamless, the 'invisible' writer.