Thoughts?

[Lord_Johnny]

I'm thinking of writing a series involving a magician in a modern setting who has an older female who is his instructor...and also his sexual submissive. It's definitely set in roughly a modern setting, so he would need to be careful about his magic use, but it also wouldn't be something that was illegal by any means.

I acknowledge that I am definitely borrowing heavily from a story arc already posted a few years back (author and story names are omitted because frankly I can't remember them off the top of my head) that abruptly ended when the author stopped posting.

Now, borrowed heavily wouldn't be the same as a remix. The character I have in mind has a lot more straight forward powers, and magic is going to work a bit differently.

I'd love to have either a co-writer for my first submissions on Lit, or a dedicated sounding board for things.

Either way, let's hear some feedback on this idea.

 

[clovermoffatt]

clover moffatt

Happy to answer q's, as a horny girl who used to be a magician's assistant (genuinely!). There was this 'zigzag' cabinet - the one the assistant stands in, then two swords go through and the middle moves out sideways, and she's still smiling out of the top? We did that a lot. If you laid it down on the floor for practice, then when she is trapped you could fuck her face and she can't move. there was a bit of bondage of course, too. Handcuffs you were supposed to be able to get out of - but sometimes not the right handcuffs and I couldn't. Your guy could do that when they did a show for a group, so they could all use her in turn. And you can do a lot of DP with various magical tools.

 

[Lord_Johnny]

*Nods* That isn't a bad idea at all, though I was thinking more fantasy, with the Sci-Fi Fantasy genre. Magic, rather than illusional tricks.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Happy to answer q's, as a horny girl who used to be a magician's assistant (genuinely!). There was this 'zigzag' cabinet - the one the assistant stands in, then two swords go through and the middle moves out sideways, and she's still smiling out of the top? We did that a lot. If you laid it down on the floor for practice, then when she is trapped you could fuck her face and she can't move. there was a bit of bondage of course, too. Handcuffs you were supposed to be able to get out of - but sometimes not the right handcuffs and I couldn't. Your guy could do that when they did a show for a group, so they could all use her in turn. And you can do a lot of DP with various magical tools.

I'll make a suggestion or two, Lord_Johnny, but as former professional magician, I have to give a quick shout out to clovermoffatt. She's right about the all the interesting bondage potential to be found in the every day life of being a magician and assistant.

As for your more fantasy oriented story, LJ, don't undersell your ability. You clearly have a vision about the magician, his instructor (an older female), and the world itself (modern day). Start storyboarding your thoughts and see where it takes you!

Your raw idea lacks a key element - what's the conflict? Is he a sexual submissive to his instructor because that's the price she demands for teaching him? If so, then what might happen to their relationship once he earns full command over his abilities? Does the student become the teacher? The slave become the master?

Perhaps he's so enamored with learning the dark arts, he's oblivious to the fact that she's using him. Not just for sex, but for monetary gain, since you suggested practicing magic is illegal. She wouldn't dare do it herself! Why risk getting caught when she can force her pawn to do it for her?

Perhaps she's only masquerading as an older woman and somehow testing him?

I would suggest giving some thought to the arc of the story since you already have a vision for the characters and its setting.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'll make a suggestion or two, Lord_Johnny, but as former professional magician, I have to give a quick shout out to clovermoffatt. She's right about the all the interesting bondage potential to be found in the every day life of being a magician and assistant.
-snip-

I think he means more Harry Potter than David Copperfield. With that in mind if you are still a former magician I would love to know some basic spells.

On what I think the OP is talking about I believe your primary issue is an interesting one. The entire active role reversal that happens and the immense trust necessary for it would probably fill a story almost alone. You've got a woman in a position where depending on what kind of magic you're talking about needs to be able to push the protaganist to his physical and mental limits to show him what he's actually capable of. At the same time once they close up shop so to speak she's his and they have to be able to trust that he's not going to take out on her his frustration from the day and vice versa. I'll be perfectly honest with you if my MMA trainer was also my submissive I think someone would die.

So REALLY this is going to be heavily character driven, more so than many stories. I mean 90% of genre films you could swap around the heroes and villains with minimal effort.

Second I would work out what his powers are since those tend to relate to the persona of the character anyway. Presumably she has a similar or at least complimentary skill set. Hard to imagine an earth bender teaching an air bender a gorramed thing.

Finally I would throw in some stupid background noise just so you have something to react to when you need it. Something standard like "The Darkness is coming" so whenever you need a break from the characters bouncing off each other there is something else for them.

 

[lovecraft68]

The assistant is an older woman, but submissive. Of course she is. Maybe if he has real magic he could put a spell on himself to erase his insecurities

Not every woman in this world is submissive or wants to be, only in this forum is that true.

I think its time for me to post another femme fatale story.

 

[Lord_Johnny]

The assistant is an older woman, but submissive. Of course she is. Maybe if he has real magic he could put a spell on himself to erase his insecurities

Not every woman in this world is submissive or wants to be, only in this forum is that true.

I think its time for me to post another femme fatale story.

I don't mind criticism, but at least make it constructive. If I want to write about an woman who is older than the protagonist and is submissive to him, that's just fine. If you don't want to read it, that's just fine. However, coming someplace just to tear into an idea without actually contributing isn't fine.
Either stop, or understand that you'll be ignored and your posts that are detrimental to the ability to communicate and develop an interesting story will not be seen.

 

[Lord_Johnny]

...
So REALLY this is going to be heavily character driven, more so than many stories. I mean 90% of genre films you could swap around the heroes and villains with minimal effort.

Second I would work out what his powers are since those tend to relate to the persona of the character anyway. Presumably she has a similar or at least complimentary skill set. Hard to imagine an earth bender teaching an air bender a gorramed thing.

Finally I would throw in some stupid background noise just so you have something to react to when you need it. Something standard like "The Darkness is coming" so whenever you need a break from the characters bouncing off each other there is something else for them.

So Yes, definitely heavily character driven for the story itself, though I do plan on some very explicit scenes for the sex. It is, after all, a story on a sex story site.

I'm trying to work on what I want his powers to be. For the first story (chapter) I'm seeing this as more oriented on the development of him being aware that he is a magician, and the development of that Dominant/Submissive relationship.

That said, one of my sounding boards is working on some further plot development based on the possibility of there being a rival. Part of this story arc is going to be the fact that the protagonist is going to be essentially setting up his own magical kingdom behind the scenes. Definitely a lot of plot there I think to keep the story running.


That said, in order to attempt brevity (that *can* be a good thing right?) I'm just going to post a response to another comment here.

For clarification, I said that Magic was secret, but that it was *NOT* illegal. Hidden for various reasons, but that the Art would not be illegal to practice, use, participate in, nor to have an awareness of the Art. It was just hidden for reasons I'll go into in the story, as opposed to giving away all my plot points.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I think he means more Harry Potter than David Copperfield. With that in mind if you are still a former magician I would love to know some basic spells.

LOL. No spells, just a former stage magician.

I don't mind criticism, but at least make it constructive. If I want to write about an woman who is older than the protagonist and is submissive to him, that's just fine. If you don't want to read it, that's just fine. However, coming someplace just to tear into an idea without actually contributing isn't fine.
Either stop, or understand that you'll be ignored and your posts that are detrimental to the ability to communicate and develop an interesting story will not be seen.

Just realized I misread your original suggestion, specifically, the part where his instructor is his sexual submissive. That's an interesting twist. I'm not sure how you pull off that kind of role reversal, but more power to you!

That said, the core of my original suggest remains - the OP seems to have a good idea for characters, time period, and even location - but feels thin on plot or conflict, though that's a good reason for posting in this thread.

I like the premise that it's set in modern day and that magic is apparently illegal for some reason. [EDIT] - Oops, I misread again! Not illegal, only hidden. Makes sense.

Perhaps the budding magic user is challenged by an opposing magician?

Perhaps the budding magic user doesn't really have any powers. Instead, his "powers" are provided by his willing submissive? How long can he go without realizing she's always been in control? And how cruel of a master does he become to his sexual submissive once he begins to suspect the truth?

I've often wondered about "real" magicians. How draining is it to use their powers? Or maybe it's not taxing at all. Is there a toll on them for using magic? Or, can they use it as much as they want without any price extracted for manipulating the physical world?

Otherwise, I agree with the OP - write the story YOU want to tell.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Given the above posts you weren't particularly clear that you meant real magic not stage magic.

@Lovecraft: OF all the positions where I would imagine you'd find an above average number of submissive women magician's assistants being tied into various positions and forced into tiny places seems logical. My problem is that she's not listed as an assistant but rather as an teacher. Even if she is submissive I can't imagine a superior as a submissive even if it's technically possible.

 

[Lord_Johnny]

Given the above posts you weren't particularly clear that you meant real magic not stage magic.

Going to have to disagree here. I'd like to invite you to go back and reread the things, as here are direct quotes from what I've said that would have pointed that out.

"The character I have in mind has a lot more straight forward powers, and magic is going to work a bit differently."

"*Nods* That isn't a bad idea at all, though I was thinking more fantasy, with the Sci-Fi Fantasy genre. Magic, rather than illusional tricks."

"Part of this story arc is going to be the fact that the protagonist is going to be essentially setting up his own magical kingdom behind the scenes."

 

[Lord_Johnny]

Perhaps the budding magic user is challenged by an opposing magician?

Perhaps the budding magic user doesn't really have any powers. Instead, his "powers" are provided by his willing submissive? How long can he go without realizing she's always been in control? And how cruel of a master does he become to his sexual submissive once he begins to suspect the truth?

I've often wondered about "real" magicians. How draining is it to use their powers? Or maybe it's not taxing at all. Is there a toll on them for using magic? Or, can they use it as much as they want without any price extracted for manipulating the physical world?

Otherwise, I agree with the OP - write the story YOU want to tell.

Yep, there is definitely an opposing magician in the works, being worked out and thought out with help of a very specific individual who first came up with a good chunk of that character's personality.

I thought about sex magic, but that seems a bit over used in the fantasy genre here on lit. Not to say people can't use that, of course, but that I don't want to use it. Though you have given me an idea. Maybe magic can be supplied through some form of bonding ceremony. Purely magical rather than a sex scene, but maybe the protagonist has the potential to be a much stronger magician than she is, and she's hoping that by teaching him, he'll be grateful and grant some of his magic potential for her to use.

I definitely think using their powers is draining. I'm currently in the process of writing a novel (off lit) that uses this premise as well. That Magic is simply another form of energy, and so someone who doesn't have the ability to manipulate magic who goes on a bike ride would be using just as much energy as someone casting basic levels of spells. You do it for 5 minutes, maybe not such a big deal, but if you go all day, the bike ride (or basic spells) are going to wear you out.

That combined with the concept that higher powered spells are more taxing, and that you can stretch the limits of the spell beyond it's normal limits, but that takes on an exponential curve of effort (and thus energy) to accomplish what you want.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

That Magic is simply another form of energy, and so someone who doesn't have the ability to manipulate magic who goes on a bike ride would be using just as much energy as someone casting basic levels of spells. You do it for 5 minutes, maybe not such a big deal, but if you go all day, the bike ride (or basic spells) are going to wear you out.

That combined with the concept that higher powered spells are more taxing, and that you can stretch the limits of the spell beyond it's normal limits, but that takes on an exponential curve of effort (and thus energy) to accomplish what you want.

I like your bike analogy. That's how I've always envisioned magic as working, too. Having magicians around would provide a select few with an unfair advantage. However, if there's a toll for using the magic, it adds a check and balance.

When you suggest he would need to keep his powers hidden, even though it's not illegal to do magic - it makes me think of secret societies, maybe where lesser magicians gather to practice their craft? Almost like an underground BDSM club?

Not trying to shove my ideas into your story, just enjoying thinking through your idea. Good luck with your writing. Be sure to include a link after it's posted.

 

[Jay321]

Even if she is submissive I can't imagine a superior as a submissive even if it's technically possible.

In the BDSM community some of the best teachers are the submissives. (Trolls: I said some!) Although I could never get the rhythm down, at one point, the teacher to learn how to Florentine (flogger in each hand) to go to in my area was submissive. I have been out of the public lifestyle for many years, so that may have changed.

Subs have a less of a tendency to get that cocky attitude that so many people confuse with domination when trying to explain out how something works.

 

[lovecraft68]

In the BDSM community some of the best teachers are the submissives. (Trolls: I said some!) Although I could never get the rhythm down, at one point, the teacher to learn how to Florentine (flogger in each hand) to go to in my area was submissive. I have been out of the public lifestyle for many years, so that may have changed.

Subs have a less of a tendency to get that cocky attitude that so many people confuse with domination when trying to explain out how something works.

Holy shit, someone who's 'got it'!I might go play power ball tonight after reading this post.

Thanks for making a post about the BDSM lifestyle that's accurate.

The 'real men' here would rather rip their eyes out than ever acknowledge a sub has their own form of control and can teach domination as well as a top.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't mind criticism, but at least make it constructive. If I want to write about an woman who is older than the protagonist and is submissive to him, that's just fine. If you don't want to read it, that's just fine. However, coming someplace just to tear into an idea without actually contributing isn't fine.
Either stop, or understand that you'll be ignored and your posts that are detrimental to the ability to communicate and develop an interesting story will not be seen.

Oh, my. I may not sleep tonight.

If you have to write about submissive women to make yourself feel superior, then go for it.

And I've contributed 130+ stories and six years of writing and posting to the various forums here. I contribute plenty

And what I tore into was a fact that the age difference-with sub being older-does not smell right. Maybe you have mom issues so need to take it out on fictional older women?

Yeah, sounds right. Enjoy your manliness Houdini.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I wasn't discussing a submissive teaching a dom how to dom.

I was discussing a submissive in the bedroom and a teacher in the class room. Which to me personally seems to have all the same problems as dating your boss in a standard vanilla relationship bust witch extra stress. Because this is less Monica Lewinsky and Bill and more Rhonda Rhosey training Brock Lesnar who happens to be whatever that bloke's name is from 50 Shades of Grey.

What can I say, I've seen enough workplace romances among either equals or people in other departments where sure one was a manager but it meant nothing to other person that got real bad real quick. On the other hand the closest I've seen to making it work was two who worked so far apart that they "worked together" only the most technical sense.

Consider it my two cents worth and think no more.

 

[lovecraft68]

Given the above posts you weren't particularly clear that you meant real magic not stage magic.

@Lovecraft: OF all the positions where I would imagine you'd find an above average number of submissive women magician's assistants being tied into various positions and forced into tiny places seems logical. My problem is that she's not listed as an assistant but rather as an teacher. Even if she is submissive I can't imagine a superior as a submissive even if it's technically possible.

You'd imagine is the key. Now will you get any real answers here? No, of course not. We agree at times and disagree at others, and that is all good. Makes things interesting and honest.

But you know I'm right about one thing. In this forum a woman who is not being assaulted or is not submissive is rarer than Republican feminist. So any piping up here will be all about how of course they would be submissive.

In reality? maybe some are, many are not. Magic is an interesting society of its own and one of the few women are not treated as dogs or less than.

Magic in the context here is not my thing. My thing is the occult, a different type of magic, but the circles do at times associate and the occult is no stranger to 'interesting' sexual situations, and the females and males both tend to be on the top side, part of the culture of a mage.

But I'm wasting breath so I'll step back while people jack off to various positions the girl could be submissive in.

 

[Sean Renaud]

In reality? maybe some are, many are not. Magic is an interesting society of its own and one of the few women are not treated as dogs or less than.

Magic in the context here is not my thing. My thing is the occult, a different type of magic, but the circles do at times associate and the occult is no stranger to 'interesting' sexual situations, and the females and males both tend to be on the top side, part of the culture of a mage.

But I'm wasting breath so I'll step back while people jack off to various positions the girl could be submissive in.[/QUOTE]

Oh I'm fully aware of the facts. I'm not even disputing that your correct on the vast majority of story ideas. In truth I never did, I just find you get overly upset considering you know the game. But we're well past arguing over that. I might take an occasional jab at you over it but it's all fun n games.


That's the thing, the OP was talking. . .well your territory adjacent. You from what I've read really do veer occult of the Crow variety a more so than the Harry Potter crowd that despite having read none of the books is a lot more my speed.

But I'm not pretending I'm not wanking over the interesting positions you could tie a woman in. What's rope play for if not that?!

 

[Jay321]

Holy shit, someone who's 'got it'!

Glad I could be your unicorn.

I might go play power ball tonight after reading this post.

I get a 10% finders fee.

I wasn't discussing a submissive teaching a dom how to dom.

I was discussing a submissive in the bedroom and a teacher in the class room.

Believe it or not, a large number of men in positions of power are the subby boys. Part of the release for them is the fact that they don't have to be in control.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I find it rather interesting just five words out of the OP's original story idea happens to be drawing so much attention ("older woman" and "his sexual submissive").

Like vampires, zombies, werewolves, and many other mythical creatures, I would advise the OP to write about magic however they wish - describe their own rules governing the use of magic. (As I said before, I liked his riding a bike analogy.)

Personally, I'm not a fan of fast zombies or sparkly vampires - but I am almost always a fan of a storyline that explains its trope bending and stays faithful to the conditions of that bent. At the end of the day, it's all just fiction.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Glad I could be your unicorn.

I get a 10% finders fee.

Believe it or not, a large number of men in positions of power are the subby boys. Part of the release for them is the fact that they don't have to be in control.

To their own subordinates or to people outside their sphere of influence? Because THAT is what I'm attempting and apparently failing to say here.

 

[Jay321]

To their own subordinates or to people outside their sphere of influence? Because THAT is what I'm attempting and apparently failing to say here.

OK I went back and reread your post, I missed what you are saying.

That much of a swing staying in their sphere of influence is usually too much. I am sure it happens, but I don't know if an example.

 

[Sean Renaud]

OK I went back and reread your post, I missed what you are saying.

That much of a swing staying in their sphere of influence is usually too much. I am sure it happens, but I don't know if an example.

It happens. It's the internet and I'm told that I'm not always super clear.

I don't think it's an impossible hurdle to get past mind you. In fact that dynamic could be very interesting to explore.

 

[Jay321]

In fact that dynamic could be very interesting to explore.

and if the thread hadn't already been hijacked bad enough STORY IDEA!

I hang my head in shame and apologize to the OP.

so back to the OP, Why write a modern world scenario where magic has to be hidden. Could you imagine a modern world where Allomancy is real and known? How easy would it be to build skyscrapers? Three talented coinshots and twenty pounds of powdered steel, and all the beams are in in a day.

That is a world I would love to write, but I need the right story. I am thinking non-erotic for that endeavor though.