Thoughts on creativity

[TE999]

While browsing the net I ran across this quote from Alan Moore, the well known author of comics and graphic novels. It sums up my philosophy of writing fairly neatly and here it is:

"It's not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, they wouldn't be the audience. They'd be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."

Agree? Disagree? Opinions? Discuss.

 

[sr71plt]

Sounds nice. I sort of think, though, that there's no pressure on a true artist to do anybody's idea of a job.

 

[TxRad]

A lot of people can draw a pretty picture but does that make them an artist?

 

[TheeGoatPig]

While browsing the net I ran across this quote from Alan Moore, the well known author of comics and graphic novels. It sums up my philosophy of writing fairly neatly and here it is:

"It's not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, they wouldn't be the audience. They'd be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."

Agree? Disagree? Opinions? Discuss.

A lot of people can draw a pretty picture but does that make them an artist?

It's up to the artist to create art as they see it. There doesn't even need to be an audience.

 

[TxRad]

It's up to the artist to create art as they see it. There doesn't even need to be an audience.

But an audience is nice, if for nothing more than company.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

But an audience is nice, if for nothing more than company.

I said there doesn't need to be one. I never said no artists want one

 

[jomar]

A lot of people can draw a pretty picture but does that make them an artist?

Got that right.

 

[TE999]

Sounds nice. I sort of think, though, that there's no pressure on a true artist to do anybody's idea of a job.

I agree. If creativity becomes a job then it's become tedious and it's no longer creativity, it's hack work.

 

[jomar]

However, I don't necessarily see creativity in Moore's quote.

 

[3113]

Agree? Disagree? Opinions? Discuss.

I think everyone who creates, be they true artists or not, writes up what they need to write up and hopes that others will want/need it. Of course, being writers who are going to put up what we're writing, we are (have to be) egotistical enough to think that our audience "needs" what we're going to be giving them.

As for giving the audience what they want, I don't think that should be entirely ruled out. "As You Like It" was given that title because Shakespeare was giving the audience what they wanted. As a great artist, however, he did it his way. What they wanted, as he wanted to do it. Which is why his play wasn't just successful for that audience but no other.

I think that's the key here.

If you give your audience what they want and nothing more, then you'll be only popular for the moment and not in the long run. Thus, it's not about giving the audience what they need or want, but discovering that which is always wanted/needed by an audience. Which is why Shakespeare's plays are still being done. That is genius. To find that which always is wanted/needed.

However, I don't necessarily see creativity in Moore's quote.

LOL! Bravo!

 

[xelliebabex]

While browsing the net I ran across this quote from Alan Moore, the well known author of comics and graphic novels. It sums up my philosophy of writing fairly neatly and here it is:

"It's not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, they wouldn't be the audience. They'd be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."

Agree? Disagree? Opinions? Discuss.

Without the audience approval is the person an artist to themselves only?

If I wrote an abstract story that just repeated the same phrase over and over again and said it was an essay on the uniformity of a set genre/category would that be art? would it make it onto this site even though I thought it was a profound statement about disestablishment or some such super long word.

I guess my counter question would be: Without the audience approval and taking into account their needs to receive that approval, would a self proclaimed artist be one at all?

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

I think everyone who creates, be they true artists or not, writes up what they need to write up and hopes that others will want/need it. Of course, being writers who are going to put up what we're writing, we are (have to be) egotistical enough to think that our audience "needs" what we're going to be giving them.

As for giving the audience what they want, I don't think that should be entirely ruled out. "As You Like It" was given that title because Shakespeare was giving the audience what they wanted. As a great artist, however, he did it his way. What they wanted, as he wanted to do it. Which is why his play wasn't just successful for that audience but no other.

I think that's the key here.

If you give your audience what they want and nothing more, then you'll be only popular for the moment and not in the long run. Thus, it's not about giving the audience what they need or want, but discovering that which is always wanted/needed by an audience. Which is why Shakespeare's plays are still being done. That is genius. To find that which always is wanted/needed.

LOL! Bravo!

I think it's more about presentation and balance.

Creative people aren't necessarily good with the presentation of their creativity. That is what they need to learn. The way to learn is to do it- often. They'd like to know that their creativity is valued because it is them- raw and courageous when it's presented.

The balance part is that when some thing is one's creation we seek to know more about it. One can't see things we create as others do and we want to know that it isn't so wide of the mark that its unintelligible. We want to know it's acceptable and where. It's like a touch stone to sanity.

Creating for an audience misses the point. Creativity is about extending the boundaries of the brain.

I'm sure there is more but for me this is the axis of it and my world spins when I explore it.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

Without the audience approval is the person an artist to themselves only?

If I wrote an abstract story that just repeated the same phrase over and over again and said it was an essay on the uniformity of a set genre/category would that be art? would it make it onto this site even though I thought it was a profound statement about disestablishment or some such super long word.

I guess my counter question would be: Without the audience approval and taking into account their needs to receive that approval, would a self proclaimed artist be one at all?

Its like driving. It's ABC. Accelerator, Brake, Clutch. We do all of them. We need a reference- other drivers- to know where we're at. We have 4 gears forward. 4 because the exhilaration of it is more with speed. 1 reverse gear because we really don't want it and it's nice to be unfamiliar with it.
Because when we're in reverse we don't feel so secure. The accelerator is the energy of creation. The brake slows it or stops it.The clutch is there to change the gears and we can also ride the clutch when we want. The crash is where we bail out.

 

[SamScribble]

The creator creates. And often he or she creates something that the audience doesn’t yet realise that they want or need. But – and perhaps unfortunately – many creators need the approval of their audiences now, not in a year or twenty years or after they are long gone. And so they don’t stray too far from the established path. The creators who have been – and still are – prepared to plough a totally different furrow are few and far between. But they are important nevertheless.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The creator creates. And often he or she creates something that the audience doesn’t yet realise that they want or need. But – and perhaps unfortunately – many creators need the approval of their audiences now, not in a year or twenty years or after they are long gone. And so they don’t stray too far from the established path. The creators who have been – and still are – prepared to plough a totally different furrow are few and far between. But they are important nevertheless.

Yep.

Art, as I understand it, is the process of creating something original.

 

[patientlee]

I agree. If creativity becomes a job then it's become tedious and it's no longer creativity, it's hack work.

That's why I had to give up writing online classes, at least for a while. It was the best job I ever had, but the pay was terrible, and it got in the way of my real job. I don't miss it at all. Yet.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

The worst thing about creativity is it can leave a person very lonely. Creativity needs context to be understood and when the context is absent the understanding can be unwanted pity. It is very difficult - no one wants pity. The people who give it are often cornered and give it because they can't offer some thing else- that often requires trust.

 

[lostlady69]

It's up to the artist to create art as they see it. There doesn't even need to be an audience.

This. Art is something that just needs to come out. The artist may or may not feel the need to share it.

 

[3113]

If I wrote an abstract story that just repeated the same phrase over and over again and said it was an essay on the uniformity of a set genre/category would that be art? would it make it onto this site

I don't know about deeming it art, but if it was about fucking, it might make it onto this site and get read

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This. Art is something that just needs to come out. The artist may or may not feel the need to share it.

Uh, coming out threads belong on the faggot board.

 

[PayDay]

Short of the faggot reference...

Duh? I thought this was obvious?

 

[3113]

I think it's more about presentation and balance.

Presentation and balance is how creative people learn to refine their art so that it is consistent. But there's nothing "balanced" in certain works considered highly creative. "On the Road" anyone? How about "Howl" or the works of William Burroughs? As you say, creative people aren't necessarily good with presentation, but that doesn't mean they need to learn presentation/balance to connect with an audience. And that's is really all any creator needs: "an" audience.

Putting it another way, when Van Gogh painted his pictures, he couldn't give them away. No one wanted or needed them. So, clearly, how he presented them was wrong. And he certainly had no balance, at least so far as the current art viewers of the day were concerned. And he never, ever learned how to find either, not for his time. Yet he always painted what he wanted/needed, didn't he?

And in doing that, he discovered a want/need that was not only in people within a generation, but has stayed with people from that point on. And that is why he is one of the greatest artists who ever lived.

 

[3113]

The worst thing about creativity is it can leave a person very lonely. Creativity needs context to be understood and when the context is absent the understanding can be unwanted pity.

Um...that's why artists hang with other artists. That's who I hang with and I'm never lonely, and I never get pity. I get berated and told to "man up" at times because I'm wallowing in self-pity ("Woe-is-me, my story isn't understood..." I whine, and my fellow writers say, "that's cause it's not right yet and you know it. Go back and edit, you lazy girl!" ), but like a boxer in a corner whining about how tired he is, I don't get no pity from these fellow boxers who've been in the ring themselves and know what it takes to win the match.

So, I'll have to disagree that the worst thing about creativity is loneliness. It's not that hard to find creative people who understand you perfectly and who go through exactly what you go through every time you create. And if you find those who are equal or better than you, then you'll be more than understood. You'll be having lunch with the the coolest kids in school--and you might end up being the envy of all the other students (Algonquin Round Table, anyone?). But you do need to pick wisely in that. If you pick other creatives who aren't as good as you, you'll just end up with a different sort of fawning pity from them rather than creative camaraderie.

As for the worst thing about creativity? Your work not being valued. Isn't that the worst thing of any task we undertake with all our heart and soul? And it's hard either way if you're a true creative. It not being valued by the wider audience even if your peers love it, or it not being valued by your peers even if the wider audience loves it (can we say "50 Shades of Gray"?). That's always what is hardest.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Presentation and balance is how creative people learn to refine their art so that it is consistent. But there's nothing "balanced" in certain works considered highly creative. "On the Road" anyone? How about "Howl" or the works of William Burroughs? As you say, creative people aren't necessarily good with presentation, but that doesn't mean they need to learn presentation/balance to connect with an audience. And that's is really all any creator needs: "an" audience.

Putting it another way, when Van Gogh painted his pictures, he couldn't give them away. No one wanted or needed them. So, clearly, how he presented them was wrong. And he certainly had no balance, at least so far as the current art viewers of the day were concerned. And he never, ever learned how to find either, not for his time. Yet he always painted what he wanted/needed, didn't he?

And in doing that, he discovered a want/need that was not only in people within a generation, but has stayed with people from that point on. And that is why he is one of the greatest artists who ever lived.

This is nonsense. Creativity is about never-before new. You want others to recognize the value of the creation, the other is cosmetic popularity.

 

[PayDay]

This is nonsense. Creativity is about never-before new. You want others to recognize the value of the creation, the other is cosmetic popularity.

A+

Best way to combat pretentious condescension is with the truth.