Thought Punctuation?

[sr71plt]

In fact, I was completely serious. I hate, loathe, and detest that stupid convention that punctuation which would normally be a period is replaced by a comma when it's the last thing within double quotes. A comma at the end of a complete statement makes no damn sense! And judicious use of exclamation points and ellipses can help convey tone of voice and emotion. They are perfectly valid punctuation marks.

Ummm, OK.

 

[JackLuis]

Maybe it's her name.

Maybe I need to learn to type?

 

[sr71plt]

Any German in your background? They cap all nouns.

 

[JackLuis]

Any German in your background? They cap all nouns.

I tend to do that, but I think I'm mostly Irish. but my family has been in the US since ~1850's.

 

[slyc_willie]

Any German in your background? They cap all nouns.

I used to have a problem with that, even though I was taught in American schools while growing up in Germany. I just thought, as a kid, that capitalizing nouns looked cool. Or maybe I wanted to be different. Yeah, that was probably it.

 

[sr71plt]

I went to a German school for a couple of years (my parents went native on foreign assignments), but I think we only used active verbs. I didn't realize how deeply engraved German managed to get in my brain until I took Mandarin at the university, which has a similar sentence structure to German, and I was finding that if I couldn't come up with a Mandarin word I needed in conversation I just slipped in the German one. That didn't work out very well.

 

[slyc_willie]

I went to a German school for a couple of years (my parents went native on foreign assignments), but I think we only used active verbs. I didn't realize how deeply engraved German managed to get in my brain until I took Mandarin at the university, which has a similar sentence structure to German, and I was finding that if I couldn't come up with a Mandarin word I needed in conversation I just slipped in the German one. That didn't work out very well.

I wonder why?

I tend to do something similar when it comes to speaking in languages other than English. I'm not fluent in either German or Spanish, but I am conversational in both. There have been several instances in which I need to say something in Spanish, and a German word slips out instead.

Strangely enough, for some people I've spoken with who come from South America (I knew a cook from Argentina, for example), they were able to understand me. Lots of German influence in some parts down there.

 

[Ellafun]

Thank you for the timeliness of this thread! I was just struggling with this issue this afternoon, and now you have all helped to guide me!

Such a thoughtful group of erotic authors here on Lit.

 

[slyc_willie]

Thank you for the timeliness of this thread! I was just struggling with this issue this afternoon, and now you have all helped to guide me!

Such a thoughtful group of erotic authors here on Lit.

There, see? We're helpful after all!

 

[sr71plt]

Lots of German influence in some parts down there.

Something to do with a lot of fast trips after WWII.

 

[slyc_willie]

Something to do with a lot of fast trips after WWII.

So the story goes.

Actually, I've met more than a few people -- from Bolivia, Argentina and Brasil, especially -- who claim recent German and even Nazi heritage. To hear them talk, you'd think everyone's grandfather was an expatriated German soldier.

 

[SamScribble]

I wonder why?

I tend to do something similar when it comes to speaking in languages other than English. I'm not fluent in either German or Spanish, but I am conversational in both. There have been several instances in which I need to say something in Spanish, and a German word slips out instead.

I studied both Italian and French at school. The Italian ‘took’ pretty well; the French didn’t.

One day, several years ago now, I was checking in to a hotel in Paris and decided to give it my very best schoolboy French. I thought I was doing quite well but, after the first two or three sentences, the guy behind the desk started frowning. Eventually he interrupted me. ‘I’m sorry, Monsieur. I don’t speak Italian. But I do speak English if that’s any help.’

Well, I had been in Rome for a few days before that.

 

[sr71plt]

I mistakenly spoke German to a hotel clerk in Copenhagen once. I can tell you that German doesn't go down well in Denmark at all.

 

[LadyVer]

Good thread. It gets confusing when editing for different Lit authors and they all handle thought conversations differently. I've found italics the least confusing, It also makes editing easier.

 

[Bramblethorn]

In fact, I was completely serious. I hate, loathe, and detest that stupid convention that punctuation which would normally be a period is replaced by a comma when it's the last thing within double quotes. A comma at the end of a complete statement makes no damn sense!

English is full of conventions that make no damn sense

 

[MatthewVett]

The first time I remember heavily seeing thoughts in quotation marks at all was in Arsene Lupin, so since then, I've just stuck with "That sucks," he thought, or That sucks, he thought.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In fact, I was completely serious. I hate, loathe, and detest that stupid convention that punctuation which would normally be a period is replaced by a comma when it's the last thing within double quotes. A comma at the end of a complete statement makes no damn sense! And judicious use of exclamation points and ellipses can help convey tone of voice and emotion. They are perfectly valid punctuation marks.

This usually is about tags-- and when the tag is part of the sentence, it completes the thought.

If the quote is the entire sentence and the action tag is a second complete sentence then yes-- it most certainly can end with a period.

"We caught it running around the parking lot, all bedraggled and hungry." Marion gazed fondly at the little rabbit in its cage.

But if it's part of the sentence, and the tag comes in after the line, it cannot end in a period, because there can only be one period in a sentence. You can use commas, exclamation points, question marks, ellipses, anything. But a period ends the sentence.

"We caught it running around the parking lot all bedraggled and hungry," Marion said, gazing fondly at the rabbit in its cage.

Or;

"We caught it running around the parking lot all bedraggled and hungry!" Marion exclaimed, gazing fondly at the rabbit in its cage.

Hmm... Personally, I think that an exclamation point is awfully final-feeling too. I think I would prefer to put my tag in a new sentence...

 

[Ironiclaconic]

This usually is about tags-- and when the tag is part of the sentence, it completes the thought.

If the quote is the entire sentence and the action tag is a second complete sentence then yes-- it most certainly can end with a period.

But if it's part of the sentence, and the tag comes in after the line, it cannot end in a period, because there can only be one period in a sentence. You can use commas, exclamation points, question marks, ellipses, anything. But a period ends the sentence.
Or;

Hmm... Personally, I think that an exclamation point is awfully final-feeling too. I think I would prefer to put my tag in a new sentence...

Yes, the comma helps, which isn't clear until you try to use a question mark or exclamation point and it looks like you have a sentence fragment. I end up rewording to avoid sentences like "I'm hot!" Jean said. I would rewrite as something like: "I'm hot!" she said. -- or -- Jean fanned herself with her copy of Cosmo. "I'm hot!"

 

[GradeACdnBeef]

It varies so much. Garnier says that its now growing increasingly common to imply put a comma after the though with a pronoun indicator. I've often used thoughts without indication of whether it was narrator (third person) or the character. Sometimes the text is clear enough that I don't put anything.

examples:

Damn. If she only know, he thought.

or

"I don't mind. Either of those tops if fine." Damn! If she only knew.

Perhaps the fact that his thought follows the dialogue indicates it's his thought. Here's the bottom line. It's ambiguous enough that someone will always correct you, so keep a consistent style and carry on.

I'm assuming the ' ' suggestion was isolated and the UK editor wasn't asking for all dialogue to be expressed that way? UK uses ' the way north american's use ". As a Canadian, I'm double confused as to which way to turn. I just try to be consistent with myself as long as it's not blatantly incorrect.

 

[SecondCircle]

I guess the correct way has been pointed out. But to me, if I'm reading someone's story and it comes across very clear as a line of thought, and doesn't interrupt tenses or anything like that, then I don't see too big of a problem with it. Consistency should be maintained, because otherwise it would get confusing, and I think that's the main point. If someone can distinguish thought and spoken word, then I see no reason for it to be unacceptable.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I guess the correct way has been pointed out. But to me, if I'm reading someone's story and it comes across very clear as a line of thought, and doesn't interrupt tenses or anything like that, then I don't see too big of a problem with it. Consistency should be maintained, because otherwise it would get confusing, and I think that's the main point. If someone can distinguish thought and spoken word, then I see no reason for it to be unacceptable.

Agreed. As long as you are consistent within the story, and not using say, question marks to mean quotes or anything too far away from the norm-- people will get you.