This is a Distraction? (Political)

[Boxlicker101]

I wonder what he would call fraud.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081014/ap_on_el_pr/voter_fraud

 

[DesertPirate]

It's getting ugly
They are reviewing several thousand of them here in NC.
I'd like to send ACORN the bill for that!

 

[TE999]

To the Prophet, this is a mere distraction.

Lest we forget, he spent his formative years in the bowels of the Chicago political machine...no vote tampering there.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Acorn hires people to go out and register voters. Apparently, some of these hired workers got lazy and scammed the system by making up phony names or just copying them out of the phone book, so Acorn was the victim of the scam as well. They were ripped off.

Legally, it's not vote fraud because no one's voted yet or tried to vote using these phony registrations. And its pretty doubtful anyone would, using these pitiful knock-offs and sorry forgeries. (Who's going to try and vote as Jimmy John or Tony Romo?) They'd be caught immediately.

The whole thing is the result of some Acorn sub-contractors trying to get paid for work they didn't do, and that's about the size of it.

We know something about vote fraud here in Chicago, and believe me, this isn't how it's done.

 

[DeeZire]

The whole thing is the result of some Acorn sub-contractors trying to get paid for work they didn't do, and that's about the size of it.

Subcontractors trying to get paid for work they didn't do? Isn't this the American way? Isn't this what Halliburton and the other subs have been doing over in Iraq all these years? With GWB's blessing?

Obviously, these questionable subcontractors were conservatives trying to make a quick buck without doing the actual work, just like always. But that doesn't let ACORN off the hook. They should have done a better job of screening the conservatives out of the sub pool, but that would have been discrimination, and I don't think ACORN is into that.

 

[Liar]

If I recall correctly, it was Acorn itself that upon discovering the fake registrations, fired the people who'd done them and immediately turned them over to authorities.

Yeah, evil, evil voting fraud engine Acorn.

 

[impressive]

I'm sure, in addition to the folks fired for attempting fraudulent registrations (and, until the voter registration cards are actually issued, they're just that: attempts), I'm sure there's also an element of collecting registrations from folks who are later determined to be ineligible.

I mean, if you're hungry and the smiling folks at that table over there have cookies, you just might sign that form -- perhaps not even with your own name -- to get a cookie or two. Then later, after their shift changes, you might even go back for more.

The rules require that all forms be turned in -- even those known to be questionable -- and safeguards are in place to weed out the ineligible. The fact that some are being identified simply shows that the process is working.

Now, as to the fired people -- it would surprise me to learn they were in any way associated with the Obama campaign beyond being overzealous supporters. We've seen some of those overzealous supporters on both sides. And, just as McCain/Palin should condemn their supporters who shout hateful things at rallies, so should Obama/Biden condemn their supporters who are out of line.

Plus, since the target demographic of ACORN voter registration drives is exactly the demographic likely to vote against McCain/Palin, it doesn't surprise me at all that they're attempting to smear the group -- and, by association, Obama -- at every opportunity. Can't let those disenfranchised citizens claim their voices, after all. That's not what democracy's about.

 

[DesertPirate]

That's why the Democrat Secretary of State in Nevada got so fed up that ACORNs offices were raided? Takes a lot of fraud to get someone to act against the intrest of their own party's candidate. Or the County official in Ohio that did the same thing.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Subcontractors trying to get paid for work they didn't do? Isn't this the American way? Isn't this what Halliburton and the other subs have been doing over in Iraq all these years? With GWB's blessing?

Obviously, these questionable subcontractors were conservatives trying to make a quick buck without doing the actual work, just like always. But that doesn't let ACORN off the hook. They should have done a better job of screening the conservatives out of the sub pool, but that would have been discrimination, and I don't think ACORN is into that.

Most, if not all, of the fraudulent registrations were as Democrats. If the persons doing the signing up were Conservatives, which I doubt, why would they not sign up new Republican or independent voters?

I would not accuse Obama of being behind this scheme, but I would accuse his supporters of being there.

By the way, Imp, there is a HUGE difference between attempts at vote fraud and people being overzealous in exercising their First Amendment rights.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

VOTE EARLY, VOTE OFTEN. Al Capone quote

The Democrats want an issue to arouse the rabble when McCain steals the election. The cuddle-bunnies will be all over the news screaming discrimination.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Call me suspicious, but I wouldn't be surprised if these overzealous Acorn sub-contractors turned out to be republican agents. This thing is too big, too clumsily done, too obvious to be a real attempt at any kind of serious fraud.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Call me suspicious, but I wouldn't be surprised if these overzealous Acorn sub-contractors turned out to be republican agents. This thing is too big, too clumsily done, too obvious to be a real attempt at any kind of serious fraud.

Zoot might be right. Democrats have been deeply involved in election fraud for a long time, going back to the 19th century. Even so, ACORN is relatively new, and they might not have gotten as good as the masters of dishonest elections, such as the Daley Machine.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Call me suspicious, but I wouldn't be surprised if these overzealous Acorn sub-contractors turned out to be republican agents. This thing is too big, too clumsily done, too obvious to be a real attempt at any kind of serious fraud.

Indeed. It's not as if the Republican party has no track record of voting shenanigans that attempt to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters (i.e., poor brown people).

It's pathetic. Latching onto this issue demonstrates an incapacity for critical thinking and proportionality, both hallmarks of Republican campaigning since Nixon.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Indeed. It's not as if the Republican party has no track record of voting shenanigans that attempt to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters (i.e., poor brown people).

It's pathetic. Latching onto this issue demonstrates an incapacity for critical thinking and proportionality, both hallmarks of Republican campaigning since Nixon.

I consider ALL political parties, and all career politicians to be a bunch of crooks, but I consider the Dems to be much worse in terms of voter fraud, etc. The Reps. are probably worse in terms of stealing and the Dems may be worse in rterms of accepting bribes.

Can you tell me when the Reps. have tried to disenfranchise anybody, including "poor brown people?" I'm not saying they haven't, but I don't know of any specific instances. I do understand that the Dems frequently try to disenfranchise absentee voters, especially members of the military stationed overseas.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Here is a related news item:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_on_el_ge/voter_registration

 

[Boxlicker101]

I consider ALL political parties, and all career politicians to be a bunch of crooks, but I consider the Dems to be much worse in terms of voter fraud, etc. The Reps. are probably worse in terms of stealing and the Dems may be worse in rterms of accepting bribes.

Can you tell me when the Reps. have tried to disenfranchise anybody, including "poor brown people?" I'm not saying they haven't, but I don't know of any specific instances. I do understand that the Dems frequently try to disenfranchise absentee voters, especially members of the military stationed overseas.

Here are some examples, although I don't have much faith in all the sources:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/11/03938/2744

http://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin200408190823.asp

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103634/posts

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/5/8/225831.shtml

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/az02_franks/militaryvotingletter.html

 

[DeeZire]

Can you tell me when the Reps. have tried to disenfranchise anybody, including "poor brown people?" I'm not saying they haven't, but I don't know of any specific instances. I do understand that the Dems frequently try to disenfranchise absentee voters, especially members of the military stationed overseas.

As I recall, in 2000 or 2004 in Florida, the state police set up road blocks to keep blacks from the polls. It was on the national news.

In Ohio in 2004, the R in charge of the elections division understaffed polling places in D districts, giving them just one voting machine - which caused huge lines leaving voters waiting for hours in the rain. It was on the national news.

****

My point about conservatives being involved in the ACORN fraud was more a comment on the free market. It's the conservatives who want to privatize everything. In the instance of the fake voters, the people doing the work were being paid piece-work - per new voter signed up. Obviously, the profit motive won out over integrity, which is a common occurrence in the free market.

Another example of that is the home mortgage fiasco. It was greedy loan officers going after commissions that spawned the bad loans, and it was the Rs who refused to regulate them. Leave it up to the free market, and the free market will screw up. It's just human nature.

If the conservatives want integrity in the voter registration process, perhaps they shouldn't leave it up to the private sector where the profit motive is more important than the actual work being done.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The legal work Obama did for Acorn years ago involved implementing a law called the Motor Voter Act in Illinois which was being blocked by Republicans. The Motor Voter Act sought to make voter registration easier by allowing registration at driver's license issuing stations. Because this would allow more poor people to register, the act was vigorously opposed by Republicans and challenged and tied up in the courts on all sorts of technicalities.

Obama and the Justice department brought suit to implement the act and won.

 

[DesertPirate]

The legal work Obama did for Acorn years ago involved implementing a law called the Motor Voter Act in Illinois which was being blocked by Republicans. The Motor Voter Act sought to make voter registration easier by allowing registration at driver's license issuing stations. Because this would allow more poor people to register, the act was vigorously opposed by Republicans and challenged and tied up in the courts on all sorts of technicalities.

Obama and the Justice department brought suit to implement the act and won.

He also lectured at training sessions and his campaign gave ACORN $800,000 this year.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DEE ZIRE

There were no roadblocks in Florida during the 2000 and 20004 elections. In Florida police are required to notice motorists via newspaper prior to setting up a roadblock. No newspaper verified the claim.

What did happen, though, was cops needed to deal with the usual chaos and tumult in the cuddle-bunny neighborhoods, and cuddle-bunnies get nervous when cops are busting their playmates for battery and robbery and drugs.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

He also lectured at training sessions and his campaign gave ACORN $800,000 this year.

I don't doubt it. Acorn's been around since the 60's or 70's registering the poor and disenfranchised, and as such has been a favorite charitable cause for the dems and liberals and a bogeyman for the conservatives and republicans.

Let them investigate all they want. there's no endemic vote fraud here. just some crooked canvasers trying to rip off the system. It's another Bill Ayers red herring.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The legal work Obama did for Acorn years ago involved implementing a law called the Motor Voter Act in Illinois which was being blocked by Republicans. The Motor Voter Act sought to make voter registration easier by allowing registration at driver's license issuing stations. Because this would allow more poor people to register, the act was vigorously opposed by Republicans and challenged and tied up in the courts on all sorts of technicalities.

Obama and the Justice department brought suit to implement the act and won.

Are you sure that was the point of contention in the lawsuit? It would seem to me that having voter registration at DMV or city hall or other public places would be a normal and reasonable policy. I'm even surprised that there would be a law requiring it. As I recal, the beef was with people registering and voting the same day, allowing no chance to check on the validity of the registration. I mean, somebody could register and vote at a dozen places the same day.

 

[DeeZire]

DEE ZIRE

There were no roadblocks in Florida during the 2000 and 20004 elections. In Florida police are required to notice motorists via newspaper prior to setting up a roadblock. No newspaper verified the claim.

What did happen, though, was cops needed to deal with the usual chaos and tumult in the cuddle-bunny neighborhoods, and cuddle-bunnies get nervous when cops are busting their playmates for battery and robbery and drugs.

My mistake. I should have said 'unofficial' roadblocks. The story I heard was that blacks were being harassed and intimidated more than usual on voting day.

 

[ottohauser1977]

Again, this is all petty stuff. Didn't two Democrats steal a seat in the House (Sanchez over Dornan, '96) and the Senate (Landrieu over Jenkins) and Bush steal the White House in 2000? Or so the losers claimed. Funny how the charges eventually subsided.

I know what rigged elections are like, and this is tame.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Are you sure that was the point of contention in the lawsuit? It would seem to me that having voter registration at DMV or city hall or other public places would be a normal and reasonable policy. I'm even surprised that there would be a law requiring it. As I recal, the beef was with people registering and voting the same day, allowing no chance to check on the validity of the registration. I mean, somebody could register and vote at a dozen places the same day.

Normal and reasonable but not in Illinois. No. The motor voter act required the state to register citizens to vote when they got their licenses. It's doubtful people would suddenly rush to get their license the day of an election.