Things now possible after this SCOTUS upholds Health Care act...

[DeepGreenEyes]

Pigs fly.

People never again post BDSM personals on BDSM cafe or talk.

satin stops all gaming, forever.

 

[Keroin]

Pigs fly.

People never again post BDSM personals on BDSM cafe or talk.

satin stops all gaming, forever.

For us feriners...what is SCOTUS and what are they trying to uphold exactly?

 

[cfuhrer]

S upreme
C ourt
O f
T he
U nited
S tates

They are trying to decide if I can be taxed because I don't have employer provided health insurance and can't afford to purchase it on the open market.

 

[subwannabe]

I don't really want to get into a political arguement because I am really right of center, but, to be fair, a lot of those who can't afford to purchase insurance on the open market will get subsidies (up to 100%) to buy insurance and for those that get less than 100% subsidies it will bring the purchase price down to something that is more affordable and for those who don't get any subsidies at all, well, I guess it's probably because they could really afford it but just didn't want to spend the money.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I don't really want to get into a political arguement because I am really right of center, but, to be fair, a lot of those who can't afford to purchase insurance on the open market will get subsidies (up to 100%) to buy insurance and for those that get less than 100% subsidies it will bring the purchase price down to something that is more affordable and for those who don't get any subsidies at all, well, I guess it's probably because they could really afford it but just didn't want to spend the money.

Can you define "more affordable" required health insurance for someone who's >60 years old (but <65), has had at least five heart attacks, and lives on Social Security and the small amount that Social Security allows him to make before they start taking $$ *out* of his SS check, and who already has the IRS and VA taking approximately 20% of that SS check away for past taxes and services, respectively?

(Not even getting *into* the fact that when he enlisted, he {and everyone else who enlisted during that period (late 60s, early 70s)} was promised that he would get *free* VA health care for the rest of his life with an Honorable Discharge, and has been charged for that health care for the last 15 years or so. True, it's less than would be charged on the civilian market, but still *not cheap.*)

 

[desertslave]

(Not even getting *into* the fact that when he enlisted, he {and everyone else who enlisted during that period (late 60s, early 70s)} was promised that he would get *free* VA health care for the rest of his life with an Honorable Discharge, and has been charged for that health care for the last 15 years or so. True, it's less than would be charged on the civilian market, but still *not cheap.*)

This infuriates Master, and I agree. He would get completely free care if he went to a VA facility, but that's a 100-mile round trip for us. Our insurance IS much less than civilian rates but the other side of that coin is that doctors/facilities get reimbursed much less, too. I always feel like apologizing when we see our doctor because he's a good guy and spends a very reasonable period of time with us. I wanted to cry when I saw what my surgeon was reimbursed for my knees. Bless him, he's a veteran and feels that he's giving back.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

This infuriates Master, and I agree. He would get completely free care if he went to a VA facility, but that's a 100-mile round trip for us. Our insurance IS much less than civilian rates but the other side of that coin is that doctors/facilities get reimbursed much less, too. I always feel like apologizing when we see our doctor because he's a good guy and spends a very reasonable period of time with us. I wanted to cry when I saw what my surgeon was reimbursed for my knees. Bless him, he's a veteran and feels that he's giving back.

He would get "completely free care" only if he's service-connected disabled to a certain percentage. Otherwise, he would be charged a certain amount for each prescription, a certain amount for each doctor visit, etc. I am not service-connected. I have to fill out a financial affidavit every year, for them to determine how much I have to pay for each service.

As for the 100-mile round trip, I can empathize. There *is* a local clinic I can go to that has a VA-affiliated nurse practitioner; however, to see a *doctor,* I have to drive 167 miles ONE way to the nearest VA hospital. Even in my 30+ mpg Scion, that's a chunk of change I can't readily afford most of the time, nor the 6+ hours driving (round-trip), nor the fact that I'm completely useless the next day because I'm wiped out from driving 6+ hours with a bad back.

It's true that VA care is much MUCH cheaper than paying for it on the civilian market, but I still resent the fact that the government whose military I *voluntarily enlisted in,* whose promise of free lifetime health care I depended on (and it *was* a consideration when I enlisted), is fucking me over, and has been doing so since at least Bill Clinton's administration.

 

[Keroin]

Ah. Understood.

(I love you Canadian medical system...hug, hug, hug!)

 

[BiBunny]

Single-payer or bust. I'm sorry. There's no other way.

Where the hell am I, a self-employed, obese 28-year-old with autoimmune conditions and the most expensive mental illness in America, going to find "affordable" insurance, regardless of government subsidies?

We give people free insurance to sit on their lazy asses, but those of us who are trying but can't quite make it yet are fucked...and nobody sees anything wrong with this.

Fuck Obama for being such a pussy and catering to these insurance bastards.

 

[sethp]

I just get tired of it being two sided. Republicans keep saying they want to repeal the health care law and that's all they publicly say. Nobody says, okay how do we rework it or add or subtract from it and make it better. Nobody says....Americans want healthcare reform but they aren't happy with what we've got now, how do we make it better. It's either keep it or throw it away. LOL If I ran a business like Republicans and Democrats run the country, I would have closed the doors years ago.

 

[desertslave]

I just get tired of it being two sided. Republicans keep saying they want to repeal the health care law and that's all they publicly say. Nobody says, okay how do we rework it or add or subtract from it and make it better. Nobody says....Americans want healthcare reform but they aren't happy with what we've got now, how do we make it better. It's either keep it or throw it away. LOL If I ran a business like Republicans and Democrats run the country, I would have closed the doors years ago.

This!!! I worked one the doctor-side of claims processing for years, and the insurance side is utterly fucked up. Multiple payor makes it worse in several ways. There are some fixes which would be simple and cost-saving without being a complete overhaul, but they're generally ignored. The industry is such a behemoth that nobody can see around it.

I'm a capitalist at heart, but this kind of competition and profit-minding over people's health and well-being makes me queasy.

 

[cfuhrer]

This!!! I worked one the doctor-side of claims processing for years, and the insurance side is utterly fucked up. Multiple payor makes it worse in several ways. There are some fixes which would be simple and cost-saving without being a complete overhaul, but they're generally ignored. The industry is such a behemoth that nobody can see around it.

I'm a capitalist at heart, but this kind of competition and profit-minding over people's health and well-being makes me queasy.

Quoted for truth.

I've worked for a medical clinic and seen how messed up billing issues could get. And now with my sons medical bills from his birth, we are still arguing with the companies 18 months later.

 

[Netzach]

I don't really want to get into a political arguement because I am really right of center, but, to be fair, a lot of those who can't afford to purchase insurance on the open market will get subsidies (up to 100%) to buy insurance and for those that get less than 100% subsidies it will bring the purchase price down to something that is more affordable and for those who don't get any subsidies at all, well, I guess it's probably because they could really afford it but just didn't want to spend the money.

Nooooo say it ain't so.

If these shitwits (all parties) actually cared, there'd also be open multistate exchanges enabling buying coops and larger pools, but that's the only good idea the right came up with and rather than compromise they want to take their toys and wahhh all the way home - it's not ALL the solution but it could/should be a part. That's not good enough - if there's ANY public segment to the solution they shut down the discussion.

They won't be rational humans, and they've poisoned this water cooler so much I can't blame the left for ignoring the validity of this idea.

This would involve actualy caring about the problem more than re election, all of 'em.

Seriously, if there is a public mandate, open exchange, and subsidy, we could actually solve this without god forbid doing it the rational way that every other civilized nation on earth seems to manage (single payer, public option, some form thereof) I don't mind if we have to insist that we're different/better/freer, but only if we actually figure this out and get our infant mortality rates in line with first-world countries and have some standard of care.

 

[Netzach]

Can you define "more affordable" required health insurance for someone who's >60 years old (but <65), has had at least five heart attacks, and lives on Social Security and the small amount that Social Security allows him to make before they start taking $$ *out* of his SS check, and who already has the IRS and VA taking approximately 20% of that SS check away for past taxes and services, respectively?

(Not even getting *into* the fact that when he enlisted, he {and everyone else who enlisted during that period (late 60s, early 70s)} was promised that he would get *free* VA health care for the rest of his life with an Honorable Discharge, and has been charged for that health care for the last 15 years or so. True, it's less than would be charged on the civilian market, but still *not cheap.*)

This is the problem. You can't promise infrastructure and then tell people to drive onto a bridge that hasn't yet been built because the DOT is socialism or whatever.

Basically it's set up so the dems can say 'we tried to drag us kicking and screaming into the 21st and we'll keep trying"

I wonder if health care will be the new abortion/guns/NEA/gayness wedge issue that no one wants to actually WIN definitively, because it always gets you turnout. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns.

 

[missgiter]

Single-payer or bust. I'm sorry. There's no other way.

Where the hell am I, a self-employed, obese 28-year-old with autoimmune conditions and the most expensive mental illness in America, going to find "affordable" insurance, regardless of government subsidies?

We give people free insurance to sit on their lazy asses, but those of us who are trying but can't quite make it yet are fucked...and nobody sees anything wrong with this.

Fuck Obama for being such a pussy and catering to these insurance bastards.

Thank you. You took the words out of my mouth. I have a similar case.

 

[Netzach]

See, and here's the thing. I'm pushing 40, autoimmune diseased, and my partner is a crazy tranny - BUT I live in a state with a semi-decent high risk pool insurance option. Have a qualifying disease - either Crohn's or teh crazy in an established fashion will do, along with a long list of options - and you qualify for - not impossible but not easy peasy rates.

This would not be an option for me if I made a lot less money but as it is it squeaks into my budget. If I made a lot lot less money, then the slack is picked up again. There's a kind of lower middle income bracket in which I'd be fucked versus the one I'm in now, which is still lower middle.

Basically, I have to pay what I can. I have to pay ALL that I can to insure myself and my family, but such is life. I'm fine with that, I just expect to be met part of the way, rather than thrown under the bus. The rates are comparable to what you would pay for employer-based insurance for the sick and sexy self employed. It's hardly high on the public teat.

Why can't every state have a viable option like this one? And it doesn't bother me if suzie pays 300 a month for what costs me 800 if it's a similar percentage of her income.

Basically, I do think that subsidizing the people falling into the cracks COULD work if we let it, rather than worrying about everyone, I'd like to know that we're just addressing the uninsured and uninsurable first, and if I still have to pay into it so be it.

No one's going to dismantle the insurance-based nightmare we have any time soon. I'd love to incite a sick person riot, but it's not happening. It's got to be some half assed potched together solution that makes the private sector somehow feel good about itself.

 

[BiBunny]

See, and here's the thing. I'm pushing 40, autoimmune diseased, and my partner is a crazy tranny - BUT I live in a state with a semi-decent high risk pool insurance option. Have a qualifying disease - either Crohn's or teh crazy in an established fashion will do, along with a long list of options - and you qualify for - not impossible but not easy peasy rates.

This would not be an option for me if I made a lot less money but as it is it squeaks into my budget. If I made a lot lot less money, then the slack is picked up again. There's a kind of lower middle income bracket in which I'd be fucked versus the one I'm in now, which is still lower middle.

Basically, I have to pay what I can. I have to pay ALL that I can to insure myself and my family, but such is life. I'm fine with that, I just expect to be met part of the way, rather than thrown under the bus. The rates are comparable to what you would pay for employer-based insurance for the sick and sexy self employed. It's hardly high on the public teat.

Why can't every state have a viable option like this one? And it doesn't bother me if suzie pays 300 a month for what costs me 800 if it's a similar percentage of her income.

Basically, I do think that subsidizing the people falling into the cracks COULD work if we let it, rather than worrying about everyone, I'd like to know that we're just addressing the uninsured and uninsurable first, and if I still have to pay into it so be it.

No one's going to dismantle the insurance-based nightmare we have any time soon. I'd love to incite a sick person riot, but it's not happening. It's got to be some half assed potched together solution that makes the private sector somehow feel good about itself.

My state sucks.

I looked into Medicaid once, just out of curiosity. Do you know what the monthly income cap is for a single person who lives alone?

$138.

One hundred and thirty-eight fucking dollars.

I make WAY too much for Medicaid, but not nearly enough to swing an individual insurance plan. And those ARE the only options. And if you think the state gives enough of a shit to offer mental health coverage to crazy people, then you, too, are insane.

The system here is set up to cater to those who would abuse it and discriminate against those who would not. It chaps my ass to hear people in Alabama bitching about their tax money going to help people who are lazy and don't work, blah, blah, blah.

I got news for you, partner. You're already doing that. And so am I. The difference is, you get your precious group health insurance, and I get jack motherfucking shit. Only I get shit on from both ends because I pay my fucking taxes just like you do, but nobody gives a red rat's ass if I keel over dead because I can't afford my own treatment.

TL;DR: Not everybody who doesn't have insurance is job-less and therefore not a tax payer, you stupid fucking dumb shit redneck.

 

[Netzach]

My state sucks.

I looked into Medicaid once, just out of curiosity. Do you know what the monthly income cap is for a single person who lives alone?

$138.

One hundred and thirty-eight fucking dollars.

I make WAY too much for Medicaid, but not nearly enough to swing an individual insurance plan. And those ARE the only options. And if you think the state gives enough of a shit to offer mental health coverage to crazy people, then you, too, are insane.

The system here is set up to cater to those who would abuse it and discriminate against those who would not. It chaps my ass to hear people in Alabama bitching about their tax money going to help people who are lazy and don't work, blah, blah, blah.

I got news for you, partner. You're already doing that. And so am I. The difference is, you get your precious group health insurance, and I get jack motherfucking shit. Only I get shit on from both ends because I pay my fucking taxes just like you do, but nobody gives a red rat's ass if I keel over dead because I can't afford my own treatment.

TL;DR: Not everybody who doesn't have insurance is job-less and therefore not a tax payer, you stupid fucking dumb shit redneck.

OMG I can't even imagine. ' Cept I can, because when I was diagnosed I was 410 dollars a year over budget for MN care. 410 bucks.

SO, much as this galls me, makes me want to vomit...the dicks on the right have ONE valid idea...

what if you had serious and substantial REAL state portability and open exchanges. You would be able to access this high-risk or something like it in theory no matter where you live. Or you and I could form the sex worker sick ass crazy bish co-op with 80000 members and go shopping together.

I know I know, it would never work like that the stack is decked to favor the corporations and blah...

BUT - how about everyone made a leap of faith. YES the government can actually make it so that you're not going to be arrested if you don't become homeless paying for your plan. YES exchanges will not end the world or only insure 2 uninsured people. I wish people would give up some paranoia on both sides and approach this like bean counters or IKEA designers.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I was telling an outraged (and stunned) conservative coworker today that he might consider being GLAD that the Court had upheld the Affordable Care Act. If it'd been struck down, what would be the GOP's response? Chest thunping, some small tinkering, and less effective tinkering. (you could well be right, Netz, on the larger co-op pools. Seems reasonable.) And we might actually see a single-payer system in ten years or twenty years. We might anyway. I even heard someone call Roberts and evil genius for averting a single-payer system.

So regardless of the inadequacies of this law, half a loaf took 50 years to achieve, and I'll take that, for now. Here's why. We've moved from cave dwellers to the bronze age. Woohoo!! And I am so beyond arguing with all the "socialist" bullshit stuff. This is a conservative plan: it was proposed by Nixon. It was championed by the friggin right-wing Heritage Foundation. It was Mitt "who do you want me to be today" Romney's signature achievement as governor.

But I was still shocked when the verdict came out! Like a last-second buzzerbeater upset.

 

[Netzach]

redundant duh. nevermind lol

 

[Netzach]

I was telling an outraged (and stunned) conservative coworker today that he might consider being GLAD that the Court had upheld the Affordable Care Act. If it'd been struck down, what would be the GOP's response? Chest thunping, some small tinkering, and less effective tinkering. (you could well be right, Netz, on the larger co-op pools. Seems reasonable.) And we might actually see a single-payer system in ten years or twenty years. We might anyway. I even heard someone call Roberts and evil genius for averting a single-payer system.

So regardless of the inadequacies of this law, half a loaf took 50 years to achieve, and I'll take that, for now. Here's why. We've moved from cave dwellers to the bronze age. Woohoo!! And I am so beyond arguing with all the "socialist" bullshit stuff. This is a conservative plan: it was proposed by Nixon. It was championed by the friggin right-wing Heritage Foundation. It was Mitt "who do you want me to be today" Romney's signature achievement as governor.

But I was still shocked when the verdict came out! Like a last-second buzzerbeater upset.

Something interesting that makes me think you are right, and we are SLOWLY grinding into civilization. I may be ancient by the time we get there but... Insurance companies seem to be battening down the hatches for something to happen.

I actually wound up doing a compare/contrast between the two options I am fortunate enough to have to choose from to see which would be cheaper - this state high risk OR private insurance with the company my spouse's COBRA coverage was under.


Sure as shit, they have a "continuation" plan which costs the same as the COBRA coverage give or take about 100 a month - and --- AND --- I can pay into it....indefinitely apparently. AND they are not throwing me off. So, the taxpayers just saved some money I guess.

After all the beans were counted, the two options were unnervingly similar in coverage and price. The state SLIGHTLY cheaper, the continuation has the comfort of the familiar.

?????

Could this be the smell of...............

capitalistic competition?

Something seems to be changing, because I KNOW this would have been the impossible before the noise of change started being made.

It'll be interesting.

Tell you one thing, if the economy toilets and Mittens actually wins this thing, he'd better break some campaign promises or he'll wind up as popular as Scott Walker. Winning by a pussy hair is no reason to think you're king of the world now.

The public has NO attention span and NO patience and NO loyalty. We want fixed, yesterday, even if many of us seem to be completely stupid about how.

 

[BiBunny]

OMG I can't even imagine. ' Cept I can, because when I was diagnosed I was 410 dollars a year over budget for MN care. 410 bucks.

SO, much as this galls me, makes me want to vomit...the dicks on the right have ONE valid idea...

what if you had serious and substantial REAL state portability and open exchanges. You would be able to access this high-risk or something like it in theory no matter where you live. Or you and I could form the sex worker sick ass crazy bish co-op with 80000 members and go shopping together.

I know I know, it would never work like that the stack is decked to favor the corporations and blah...

BUT - how about everyone made a leap of faith. YES the government can actually make it so that you're not going to be arrested if you don't become homeless paying for your plan. YES exchanges will not end the world or only insure 2 uninsured people. I wish people would give up some paranoia on both sides and approach this like bean counters or IKEA designers.

I would be ok with this, assuming, of course, it actually worked in people's favor, rather than screwing them over in the end.

 

[Netzach]

I would be ok with this, assuming, of course, it actually worked in people's favor, rather than screwing them over in the end.

I figure there's only one way to find out, and I wish I didn't have to wait till 2014 to find out.


I just want to start a sick and pissed off person co-op. Requirements, are you sick? are you pissed off? Let's shop. The power of enough liabilities in one place will make them SCREAM for a public option!

 

[BiBunny]

I figure there's only one way to find out, and I wish I didn't have to wait till 2014 to find out.


I just want to start a sick and pissed off person co-op. Requirements, are you sick? are you pissed off? Let's shop.

Let's do. Please. Like, yesterday.

The good news is, I'm no longer Miss Pre-Existing Condition, I guess. Maybe that'll come in handy at some point....

 

[Licia]

My father-in-law joined up for service during Nam. We have finally secured some of his VA benefits, but it's more than a 100 mile round trip to get him proper care. A one hour trip gets him a regular doctor's visit. Everyone in the family takes a turn to make sure he gets what he needs. The pension he scrapes by on is laughable, so the hubs and I frequently supply basic necessities. Winter is crazy, but we manage.

My hubs joined up before Desert Storm. He has no VA benefits atm. He works and has an HSA type of insurance. Twelve hundred is his "deductible"--his responsibility. The insurance company then pays any remaining balance. When he went through an insurance change due to his employer switching agencies, I was not eligible for the transfer due to a pre-existing condition/disease--pregnancy. Pregnancy. My only other choice was state medical care. We could not afford congress health care premiums.

I'm staying at home until the kids are all in school. Three more years to go. I do not want other tax payers to pick up my medical responsibities. It's bad enough that the kids are currently on state funded health care. We are reordering life, and he does hold a master license.

I'm dreading the three year mark. The school system here is in shambles: two schools closed due to lack of funding and two more on the chopping block next year. This school year drags the teacher student ratio down by (at the least) one teacher to forty students. All the teacher will ever finish is controlling the classroom.

Yeah, I could get a job in food service, but the income would not even offset the cost of daycare.

Biggest joke in the riddle? We make too much money for state funded daycare.

What are they going to do? Throw me in prison? Fine me? *laughs*