The Worst Thing About Depression.

[Noor]

I suppose I should warn you about the other possible aspects of sex and deppression. There can be a lots of sex, exchanges that feel like intimacy then nothing with no meaning beyond that moment as if it never happened, being on the receiving end of that is worse than no sex, believe me.

 

[MagicaPractica]

Just a point to offer. Clinical depression can also have a physical cause. When I was about 20 my thyroid tanked on me, causing severe depression. It took a while for somebody to think of testing it and a while longer to get properly medicated for it. I'm sure there are other physical problems that cause depression as well. If she is in college, student health insurance can sometimes pay for some testing. Just another possibility in the myriad.

 

[Huckleman2000]

One thing Your Gal might try is St. John's Wort. It takes several weeks to kick in, like most any anti-depressant, but it does work for some people. It was the first thing I started taking before I crashed, and it worked quite well for me. IIRC, there may be some interaction with birth control pills.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

The worst part of depression is that it comes back. Again again and again. It haunts you for life. Like you're branded, and it will claim you no matter what you do, where you are, who you're with.

Sex? In the larger scale of the "nothingness" depression brings, sex has no meaning, except for the temporary distraction of release.

 

[Muddyman]

The worst part of depression is that it comes back. Again again and again. It haunts you for life. Like you're branded, and it will claim you no matter what you do, where you are, who you're with.

X2....

 

[English Lady]

Joe, firstly *hugs* as, for one I'm not quite sure exactly what to say and for two, I know you're anxious and upset right now, and I just want to offer some comfort.

I'll offer you this, I know you and "My girl" will get through this, together. I know it. I know that it won't be easy, it will be difficult for both of you, but your love will help immeasurably. Okay, so that may sound like a romantic whitewash answer, but it is true.

I do think she should see a qualified someone, but understand money issues, especially if she is very independant. I think it might help her, though, to talk through the whole thing with someone trained to help. She still holds the decisions in her hands though, if she doesn't want to go down the meds route, she shouldn't be forced to take them, and as Huck says, there are Natural homeopathic remedies that may help -though you need to speak to someone knowledgeable about those things before taking anything.

I think the best thing you can do, is be with her as soon as you can. You said it yourself, some things are just more improtant than money and this is one of those things. I know you're working on it, and this is good. I think you are dealing well.

It's not easy, dealing with loss of sex drive. I've not had to deal with it often, my husband tends to crave intimacy when he is depressed, it helps to pick up his mood and he almost gets sex obsessed at times -which is the opposite problem. Anyhow, it's happened, and it's difficult. It's difficult not to think "why doesn't he/she want me? What is wrong with me? What am I doing wrong?" but really, it isn't YOU. You need to believe that, Joe. She's going through a really difficult time, and her energies are just tied up elsewhere and she's no doubt missing that communication as much as you.

Do what you can to communicate in other ways. Write her love letters. Don't shake your head and dismiss it outright, it might not be "you" but it will help you and it will be something for her to treasure. Hold her hand and hug her if she will let you when you're together, look in her eyes and reassure her of your love. Right now she needs alot of reminders about things like this. Simple "I love you's" say alot.

What you need to adapt to is giving, giving without necessarily receiving. I know people will say you should be able to do that easily for a person you love, but it's not easy. Sometimes you feel like you're throwing emotions into a black hole and when youget nothing back, doubt plagues you. She loves and needs you Flannel, cherish that deep inside as you plug away at this difficult situation. She appreciates all you do, I know that.

Lastly, whenever, whatever and however, you know I'm willing to help. Just ask. I know, I know you're not a one for asking for anything, but right now, you know you can't do this all on your own. You need support almost as much as "My Girl" does. I'm here to offer support to you both. You are both constantly in my prayers, and I will continue to support you in that way, without you needing to ask.

God Bless, love.

 

[angela146]

Something like Welbutrin is in a different family of drugs, has less or no effect on libido, but is much more expensive because it is too early for generics.

Um ...

Welbutrin has a very *positive* effect on libido for many people who take it. (Assuming that you see a strong libido as positive thing).

Welbutrin has been available in generic form for years. In fact, Wellbutrin SR is even available as a generic (Bupropion SR).

 

[dr_mabeuse]

She is much like me, in some ways. Helping her is not well recieved--I think she doesn't like to feel needful. I'm sticking it out. We're sticking it out. I've been looking for a job that keeps me at home with her. None around the area pay as much as I make now, but I'm willing to make the sacrifice. There are things more important than money.

One of the insidious traps of depression is making the sufferer feel that either (a) they're just being self-indulgent and needy and are therefore not in need of treatment (the "bootstrap" theory: they just need to pull themselves up by their bootsdtraps), or (b) they're so worthless and hopeless that they don't even deserve treatment. The failure of a person to bootstrap their way out of fepression usually ends up with them feeling more of a failure and therefore more depressed.

If she's a student at an American college, there must be some campus health service or counseling group that could help her or refer her to someone else who could help. Colleges and Universities are veritable hotbeds of depression and almost all have some mechanism in place to help studnets cope. If this is the first spell she's ever had over 8 years, then the chances are that it's acute and a reaction to some external problems, in whcih case counseling might help a lot.

Outside of drug therapy, the thing I find most helpful is travel--changing your surroundings. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. Maybe she could go with you on one of your trips.

And lack of sex drive is far from the worst thing about depression. Depression's one of the leading cause of death among young adults. It's no joke.

 

[angela146]

Joe, sometimes depression medication isn't just a bandaid. Sometimes it's a direct treatment of the central problem.

I've been there. In fact, I *am* there.

If I reduce my medication, I lose energy (including sex drive) and don't feel like getting out of bed. When I'm on the right dose, I can not only function but I and be a source of energy for others.

If there is a neurotransmitter problem, it may be difficult to solve it with a non-chemical solution.

Also, there is a *huge* difference between different kinds of medicine. So, even if someone tries one kind of medication and it doesn't work another kind of med might do wonders.l

I have been on two kinds of meds: serotonin-related medication (e.g. prozac) and adrenaline/epinephrine medication (e.g. wellbutrin).

In my case, prozac has a calming, almost patronizing, effect. It feels like my body is saying "here, little girl, have a cookie".

Wellbutrin, on the other hand, gives me the feeling of an adrenaline rush. I feel like I have energy and can actually do stuff.

I'm not knocking prozac (although it may sound like it). For some people, it's exactly what they need, especially if there is an anxiety component to their depression.

In my case, my depression is more of a "have no energy" thing rather than a "feeling sad all the time" thing.

I guess what I am saying is that medication is sometimes not just *an* answer. Sometimes it's *the* answer.

 

[angela146]

I just re-read your earlier post and realized that this has been going on for a month.

Has she seen an ob-gyn? Has she gone on or gone off birth control recently? or changed the dose recently?

Might she be pregnant?

All of the above can affect mood and cause depression.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Angela, I'm so glad that Wellbutrin has worked for you! In my experience, it doesn't seem to do crap, so it's good to hear that it helps people - more than one psych has tried it on me, and I just don't get anything from it. You're right about the libido effect, though. One person I know tried it and he was so horny all the time it drove both him and his wife nuts! (I know... I should dream of such problems! )

I've sort of steered away from talking about the sexual side-effects of some of these meds, just because it's very close to Joe's experience and I really don't want to say anything that will interfere with trying to get some sort of treatment. I also don't wish to deny Joe's feelings about a lack of intimate contact. If that's been a strong part of the relationship before, I can absolutely see where it would be the most apparent and difficult thing to deal with. Losing that sort of mutual affirmation on a libidinal level must be difficult.

As Doc M has said, depression is a leading cause of death in young people. I wish I had numbers to cite, but it's also a leading cause of divorce when one or the other has untreated depression. I don't envy Joe one bit, trying to deal with this illness in the context of a relationship. I know it fucked up my marriage for years before we finally split up, and like Joe, my ex was one to avoid doctor visits, and that rubbed off on me too. I still, after 8+ years of treatment, have mixed feelings about the medical attention, even though depression has been a significant life= and job-impairment.

English Lady has some good advice for partners, from her own experience, but I know she is really an unusually fine complement to someone with depressive tendencies. I hope that she gets enough out of it to justify what she puts into it - I dare say that the depressive temperment has much to offer, even though it is undoubtedly difficult to deal with.

 

[Noor]

The worst part of depression is that it comes back. Again again and again. It haunts you for life. Like you're branded, and it will claim you no matter what you do, where you are, who you're with.

Sex? In the larger scale of the "nothingness" depression brings, sex has no meaning, except for the temporary distraction of release.

Very true, and sometimes, sad to say other people have no meaning either, there is nothing that can not be sacrificed, everyone is expendable.

 

[AchtungNight]

Good luck whatever happens, man.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Failure.

So, I tried being very helpful and interactive. Ultimately, this is not being recieved well--I don't think. Its so hard to tell what's "really appreciates it, but can't show it" and "couldn't care less".

I mentioned that I'd talked to some people that know much more about it than I do, and that I'd gotten much advice--and the largest part of it all the same. That I am better equipped to help and take some of the pressures off, and that I understand and am here to listen.

This was not enthusiastically recieved (and, before people get in a bunch about "its not about enthusiasm"... I wasn't expecting cartwheels, but hoping for maybe a sincere form of gratitude or acknowledgement of intention).

This is highly frustrating... the entirely irrational side of me (and I do have one) is screaming "she doesn't care, the relationships over, she wants things you can't give, she's waiting for you to get the hint that you're neither wanted nor needed".

The rational side of me says "...and that's precisely what depressed people exude, this is all very textbook".

Goddamn it all.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I'm so sorry, Joe. I know how special 'My Girl' is to you and has been for a long time. I don't have much experience with depression, except that half the people I knew in SF were on one med or another. I do know that you're right about this, though:

The rational side of me says "...and that's precisely what depressed people exude, this is all very textbook".

I'm glad you're posting about this as depression takes a huge toll on you as well as her, though in different ways. I believe as EL does; you will get through this together. I wish you both the best.

 

[English Lady]

Not failure, Flannel, not by a long shot.

You're learning, which is always a good thing.

You've offered support and although she might not be showing appreciation, I am sure she does appreiciate it.

I know just how frustrating it is, my husband does the same, less regularly now, but he would be like that alot when we first met and his depression was worse. It's so very frustrating and it hurts, too. You wonder what you can do to make them better, wonder if it's osmething you've said or done, and your heart aches as you try and put it right. Unfortunately, you can't put it right, right now she just can't give you the response you want, but from my experince, I know she needs all the reassurance you can give her.

Don't give up, don't stop trying. This is going to take time and you're doing all the right things, love. You're doing well.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Not failure, Flannel, not by a long shot.

You're learning, which is always a good thing.

You've offered support and although she might not be showing appreciation, I am sure she does appreiciate it.

I know just how frustrating it is, my husband does the same, less regularly now, but he would be like that alot when we first met and his depression was worse. It's so very frustrating and it hurts, too. You wonder what you can do to make them better, wonder if it's osmething you've said or done, and your heart aches as you try and put it right. Unfortunately, you can't put it right, right now she just can't give you the response you want, but from my experince, I know she needs all the reassurance you can give her.

Don't give up, don't stop trying. This is going to take time and you're doing all the right things, love. You're doing well.

The truth is, I feel selfish. These, I think, are going to be a few moments of candid--pretense aside.

I feel guilty for wanting to save myself the pain (what a trite damn term that is) of feeling both useless and entirely unloved. I'm not an uncommon guy, I've had my heart broken just like anyone else--and I'm not above feeling protective of myself. Some of us, who've gone through a bad one, never really get over the need for self-preservation.

Each day that goes by joyless screams loudly to me that this is going to end. History aside, you're unwanted and unneeded. I feel guilty for blaming her for her insensitivity. I feel guilty for thinking I should get out before I get hurt by this.

I know I won't. I know.

But... I'll be fucked if I don't go through some evenings where I wonder if walking away would shake things up a bit, or if walking away isn't just what I'm supposed to do. Its hard to remind one's self every day that "its the depression talking/not-talking" and ignore that you're only making things harder and nobody tells you they love you anymore.

My friends--though they think highly of me--know things about me that most here probably glean over the years... I'm usually calm, mostly rational, rarely extreme, and not prone to emotional outpouring. But, what they always knew--for going on eight years--is that My Girl's the most imporant person in the whole world to me.

My only real weakness, aside from vanity.

And one gets paranoid about their weaknesses, when their weaknesses start softening up.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Alright, go ahead and spit on me and kick me and hiss and call me names, I'm going to say it anyway:

No one is required to sacrifice their own lifelong happiness for another adult. You are always free to leave and no person has the right to condemn you for that, and there is no need to condemn yourself.

Obviously a benevolent person won't bail at the first painful challenge, and will hang in there for a long time in the hope that he or she can help the other person, and the hope that the problem can be gotten under control (notwithstanding the truth of what Nirvana and others have said, that it never goes away completely.)

But at the end of the day, it is the individual's choice, and assuming you have made an honest effort and given all you can afford to without sacrificing your own lifelong happiness, you are free to go without guilt or shame (but with sadness.)

 

[joeys-game]

The worst thing about depression?
1)..living with it.

2)..watching someone else suffer through it.

 

[jushorny]

The truth is, I feel selfish. These, I think, are going to be a few moments of candid--pretense aside.

I feel guilty for wanting to save myself the pain (what a trite damn term that is) of feeling both useless and entirely unloved. I'm not an uncommon guy, I've had my heart broken just like anyone else--and I'm not above feeling protective of myself. Some of us, who've gone through a bad one, never really get over the need for self-preservation.

Each day that goes by joyless screams loudly to me that this is going to end. History aside, you're unwanted and unneeded. I feel guilty for blaming her for her insensitivity. I feel guilty for thinking I should get out before I get hurt by this.

I know I won't. I know.

But... I'll be fucked if I don't go through some evenings where I wonder if walking away would shake things up a bit, or if walking away isn't just what I'm supposed to do. Its hard to remind one's self every day that "its the depression talking/not-talking" and ignore that you're only making things harder and nobody tells you they love you anymore.

My friends--though they think highly of me--know things about me that most here probably glean over the years... I'm usually calm, mostly rational, rarely extreme, and not prone to emotional outpouring. But, what they always knew--for going on eight years--is that My Girl's the most imporant person in the whole world to me.

My only real weakness, aside from vanity.

And one gets paranoid about their weaknesses, when their weaknesses start softening up.

That's a powerful post Joe. I'd venture to say those that have experienced depsrssion might view it as arrogant or self serving. While those that have been on your side of depression will understand completely.

I don't have advice nor opinion to add tonight. Except to say, if it helps to continue posting, then you should do just that. More advice, caring, maybe help, can be found here.

 

[Huckleman2000]

The truth is, I feel selfish. These, I think, are going to be a few moments of candid--pretense aside.

I feel guilty for wanting to save myself the pain (what a trite damn term that is) of feeling both useless and entirely unloved. I'm not an uncommon guy, I've had my heart broken just like anyone else--and I'm not above feeling protective of myself. Some of us, who've gone through a bad one, never really get over the need for self-preservation.
...
But... I'll be fucked if I don't go through some evenings where I wonder if walking away would shake things up a bit, or if walking away isn't just what I'm supposed to do. Its hard to remind one's self every day that "its the depression talking/not-talking" and ignore that you're only making things harder and nobody tells you they love you anymore.

My friends--though they think highly of me--know things about me that most here probably glean over the years... I'm usually calm, mostly rational, rarely extreme, and not prone to emotional outpouring. But, what they always knew--for going on eight years--is that My Girl's the most imporant person in the whole world to me.
....
And one gets paranoid about their weaknesses, when their weaknesses start softening up.

I hate to keep saying it, but if it's gone on for over a month, it's probably not going to get any better for a long time unless Your Girl gets some sort of regular, ongoing treatment. There's Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) which has been proven to be as effective as pills, and even more so in conjuction with them. But that isn't a technique that one learns in a session or two, and applying it has a learning curve as well. If she wants to go the DIY route, "Feeling Good" by David Burns and "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman are both good CBT books.

I don't know about leaving her, that's something only you can decide. I wouldn't expect that 'shaking things up' is going to make much of a difference, though. Depression is very inwardly-focused, and (at least in my own experience) bad events just make me want to hide under the covers, not take positive actions to deal with them.

Putting it into rational terms, though:
1) It's probably not going to get any better unless she gets treatment.
2) Once she starts getting treatment, it's probably going to be at least a month before there's noticable improvement.
3) There's very little that you can do that will have much effect, at least in the short term. Being supportive and all that is important, but there are times when even being touched by someone else is painful, and so you're not going to get much in return. (see #1)

There are some "tips" on this page, halfway down the page

 

[English Lady]

The truth is, I feel selfish. These, I think, are going to be a few moments of candid--pretense aside.

I feel guilty for wanting to save myself the pain (what a trite damn term that is) of feeling both useless and entirely unloved. I'm not an uncommon guy, I've had my heart broken just like anyone else--and I'm not above feeling protective of myself. Some of us, who've gone through a bad one, never really get over the need for self-preservation.

Each day that goes by joyless screams loudly to me that this is going to end. History aside, you're unwanted and unneeded. I feel guilty for blaming her for her insensitivity. I feel guilty for thinking I should get out before I get hurt by this.

I know I won't. I know.

But... I'll be fucked if I don't go through some evenings where I wonder if walking away would shake things up a bit, or if walking away isn't just what I'm supposed to do. Its hard to remind one's self every day that "its the depression talking/not-talking" and ignore that you're only making things harder and nobody tells you they love you anymore.

My friends--though they think highly of me--know things about me that most here probably glean over the years... I'm usually calm, mostly rational, rarely extreme, and not prone to emotional outpouring. But, what they always knew--for going on eight years--is that My Girl's the most imporant person in the whole world to me.

My only real weakness, aside from vanity.

And one gets paranoid about their weaknesses, when their weaknesses start softening up.

Flannel,

I know how you feel. I've been there, done that.

My husband and I had been together a year or so, living together for a couple of months, when he had his first really bad dose of manic depression. One minute he was as high and happy as could be, and the next, he was low. He called me names, accused me of some nasty things and I got to the point where I just snapped.

"I'm going." I announced. picked up my toothbrush, a few clothes and headed for the door. I'd had enough, I loved him, wanted to help, but right that moment I couldn't hack it any more. I opened the front door, and, in a small, soft voice behind me, hubby said.

"You're really going to leave?" I look round and tears are in his eyes, my eyes and I say "If you continue to shout at me like that, yes." and he repeats, virtually the same thing "You really want to leave?"

"Of course not." I replied, shutting the door, and we hugged, and talked and got over the first explosive episode of his depression.

How many times have I been selfish and just wanted to bail? Over the 8 years we've been together, I'd reckon your looking at 10 or more times at least. I remember some vividly - the day he locked himself in the bathroom and cut his wrists, the tie he told me he was in love with another woman, the time he accused me of meeting other men behind his back...etc...etc. All these times, he was just pushing me away. He didn't believe he deserved my love and he didn't want me to go through things with him, he didn't want to keep hurting and upsetting me, his depression drove him to it.

And you know, loves kept us together, and I 've kept with him and vice versa -but I have thought, many times in the past ,that i could just get out, I could save myself all the heartache and just leave. I've been close to doing it too.


Now, I'm not painting myself as a saint here, I know I could have and would hae left at several points. However, the love between hubby and I stopped me everytime. I knew it was worth going through hell for.

And it's hell, Flannel. It is. It's not going to magically get better, and some days you're going to find it extra tough. I know, blimey, I think anyone who's read your posts know, just how much you love "My girl." and that love is going to be thoroughly tested right now.

I wish, oh how I wish I could tell you "It's all going to be alright." I wish I could tell you the magic words to make it all better, I really, deeply, truly wish I could. The sad and harsh truth, is that these magic words don't exsist.

You're going to have alot of thinking to do, and alot of decisions to make. I'll not condemn you for any decision you make, and as Roxanne said, you can make the decision to go, if you really want to. I know, as you do, that you won't go without good cause - but it is an option, and no one would hold it against you.


Do all you can to get her to a professional, Flannel. She needs some help,wether she thinks she does or not. Also, know you're not going through this alone, and know you can always,always count on my support

PS you're not useless, or unloved. You're doing your best, and thats all that can be asked of you, I kow you're making a difference. I also know you're loved, completely convinced of that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Joe, in my experience, all the sympathy in the world won't help a depressive. Medication might- and untreated depression can kill.

Some years ago, a good friend came over to tell me that her boyfriend was becomeing distant. She was savvy enough to recognise the signs of depression, and did all the offering of support kinds of things, but his actions became so hurtful thta she was ready to break off the relationship.

Then one day she called me and told me that the man was in hospital. After a week of not picking up his phone or calling her back, sh went over to his apartment. Although his car was there, he didn't answer the door. His landlord and she called to police, who forced the door- to find him sitting on his bed. He hadn't done much more than get up to pee for four days, and the dog hadn't been walked...

The hospital put him on wellbutrin, and he began to improve to a point where the sympathy she was offering actually meant something to him.