The woes of training a neophyte.

[Laoghaire]

I've always trained experienced subs. I took it upon myself to train someone who absolutely has no clue as to what it means to be submissive. Biggest mistake of my life! I'm very tempted to ask another Domme to take care of him. It aggravates me even more when I have to explain *everything* to him, and I mean EVERYTHING. He's somewhat willing to purchase the toys, more or less inclined to be punished/humiliated publicly. He's fucking hopeless.

So my question is how do you break/train a neophyte without losing your mind over it? I've broken many subs before but this one's just hopeless and I've no patience.

 

[s'lara]

i personally don't believe that people walk out of the womb experienced in BDSM. There is a transitional period for all of us from novice to experienced.

Lao, i am going to go out on a limb and say that you most likely didn't obtain your knowledge on how to train submissive's without initially being a novice. Therefore, you yourself were once a neophyte. i am sure that is easily forgotten in the frustration of dealing with a neophyte from the perspective of one who has gained some experience. But, you gained such experience from a starting point of nil.

As to the submissive you described, it may be a situation where a) the sub in question is sensing your frustration and impatience and therefore resents your training tactics, b) this person may not want to be trained to be "submissive" and would rather bottom. i don't believe you can train someone to have the submissive trait. Either they are submissive willingly or they are not; c) the unwillingness to engage in public humiliation, etc. may simply indicate that they are not ready for these kinds of acts despite your "training."

i may not have the full story, but it sounds like you might want to pull back on the focus of creating a trained submissive and instead talk to the person and explore what seems to cause their reluctance to be controlled by you. It could simply be incompatibility. Either way, you might want to reassess whether you are the right person to guide this sub.

lara

 

[Laoghaire]

Thanx for your insight, Lara. You're right, I have forgotten what it was like being a neophyte myself. I should be more understanding of them but I figured out that I'm not one to train a beginner.

As for my sub, we've had a long discussion as to why he wanted me to be his domme and why he wanted to be a sub. His reponses were somewhat clear. He's fresh meat, 19, living with mom and dad. Has a few toys but can't really purchase them without raising his parents' suspicions. Won't be humiliated/punsihed for the same reasons. I have tried to be more creative in my ways of punishing him and yet, it all comes out wrong. He either can't do it or finds every excuse in the book to not do what is asked of him.

I seriously believe that I may not be the Domme for him and I am willing to let another Domme do his training. I do think however that he's not really ready to be sub. But he says otherwise.

 

[WriterDom]

It may have something to do with his age. I'm not so sure how mature the average 19 yr. old male is.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am not sure breaking subs is a healthy approach, but maybe it is just a different understanding than I have for the term. It certainly sounds as if it may be time for you to move on to another sub and he to find another Domme as the frustration seems to be counter productive to the desired outcome. Good luck.


Catalina

 

[SweetDommes]

It may have something to do with his age. I'm not so sure how mature the average 19 yr. old male is.

Since I happen to have a theory about the "19 year old male disease" (a combination of severe immaturity and just outright stupidity) I'd have to say ... not very.

We refused to take anyone under 21 for this reason (well ... that and closer to our age = greater chance of compatability).

 

[Laoghaire]

Alright, but who says a 21 year old is mature enough? It's a mere two years of difference. There are some pretty daft and immature 21 year olds as well. Other subs I've had were either around my age (mid thirties) or much older (40s-50s). My work is much more efficient with older and *experienced* subs. That's been my experience.

 

[Raeth]

It sounds like he really needs to change something before getting into this. It doesn't sound so much as a lack of experience, but more maturity and him being unwilling to make sacrifices for what he says he wants.

Doesn't sound like anything is going to change as long as he is living with Mom and Dad. Until he decides it's time to be his own person I can't see much hope for him.

 

[graceanne]

Well, I personally believe that, as a rule men are not cabable of making a commitment, or acting less than selfishly, before 28ish. I think before then that all they think about is sex. Robin Williams said that men have dicks and brains and only enough blood to work one at a time.

I also want to say that I know this is not always true. There are always exceptions to the rule. I have a cousin, 21, who's a great dad and husband.

 

[SweetDommes]

Alright, but who says a 21 year old is mature enough? It's a mere two years of difference. There are some pretty daft and immature 21 year olds as well. Other subs I've had were either around my age (mid thirties) or much older (40s-50s). My work is much more efficient with older and *experienced* subs. That's been my experience.

I said that was the cut off ... I didn't say we wanted subs that age - we were actually looking for older, and we got a 26 year old (my age, 2 years older than Holly) and a 36 year old (you can do the math yourself).

 

[ownedsubgal]

first, one cannot be trained to be a submissive. a submissive can be trained in certain skills, trained to mold to a certain Dominant's ways, etc...but as for being submissive that is something that must already be there in the first place. so it's possible that this young man may not even be a submissive, and could simply be someone with somewhat of an interest in bottoming. in that case he'd probably be better suited with a Top and not an actual Dominant.

 

[Laoghaire]

I agree with you Ownedsubgal. I don't think this one is submissive at all nor is he dominant in any way. I believe he's just curious and gets a kick out of being told what to do by someone ~he's told me as much. I personally can't deal with immaturity and daftness myself ~ It's not that much of a stretch from my real job which is teaching to high schoolers, I've no patience there either for stupidity.

 

[ChasingShadowsX]

Do you wear a red cat suit to class?

 

[Laoghaire]

Har har har.... I'm mostly in black.

 

[LadyAndrivete]

Deleted.

 

[NCShin]

It sounds like this is online...are you meeting with him IRL or is this an online thing?

 

[cremebrulee]

As for me

Sounds like a challenge to me. Sometimes (NOT always, this is not a pattern here by any means) I enjoy the naivete of one who thinks they are a sub or sub material. Sometimes the sheer joy of letting them know how wrong they are is worth it all. Guess it depends on where you're coming from. For LT I would prefer someone who know's their place for the better part, but sometimes I get a real kick out of someone like your boy who thinks he knows what he wants.

now there's some food for conversing

~Creme

 

[Xelebes]

It may have something to do with his age. I'm not so sure how mature the average 19 yr. old male is.

To give you all perspective, I am a 19 year old male. I have not pursued finding a domme yet because I am still thinking whether I belong here or not. I have no experience with sex whatsoever so I am currently not sure of anything really.

This could be the problem he is facing - he knows down deep that he wants to do this but there are barriers he must cross and with crossing barriers, must have something to hold on - a familiar face to look into, a guiding hand, a re-affirming voice to dispel all the worries and anxieties he is curently going through.

Take it slow, allow him to gain more trust in you.

That's all I can think of right now.

 

[ChasingShadowsX]

19 year olds can be very mature, depending on context.

P.S. Xelebes thats hardly prespective, you're an individual not a majority, most 19 year olds have had sex and know what they like, although this is definately the time for them to push the boundaries and try new things.

 

[PyroDemon]

Originally posted by ChasingShadowsX
19 year olds can be very mature, depending on context.

P.S. Xelebes thats hardly prespective, you're an individual not a majority, most 19 year olds have had sex and know what they like, although this is definately the time for them to push the boundaries and try new things.

Usually 19 year olds only seem mature to other 19 year olds. Maturity is not so much an age issue people. I have met a few 20 year olds that were much more mature than a lot of 40 year olds I know. And you will be amazed how many 19 year olds have no sexual experience what so ever. Male or female. In todays world of too many unwanted babies, too many STD's, and the HIV and AIDS scare alot of young people are flat out scared to have sex and experience is just something they do not get.
Any new sub or Dom/me for that matter is going to be a challenge hopefully. I don't care if they are 18 or 80. Experience level is not always relevent to the challenge anyone faces. Personally, the challenge is what makes it exciting. No two students will learn the same so why should it be different with a D/s relationship? Not everyone is compatible with everyone. If you find you simply do not want the challenge, that they are not for real and just playing, or they are not to your liking then communicate this and no one will be dissapointed. The one big word everyone needs to use is " COMMUNICATION".

 

[LadyAndrivete]

The one big word everyone needs to use is " COMMUNICATION".

Well said.

 

[catalina_francisco]

To give you all perspective, I am a 19 year old male. I have not pursued finding a domme yet because I am still thinking whether I belong here or not. I have no experience with sex whatsoever so I am currently not sure of anything really.

This could be the problem he is facing - he knows down deep that he wants to do this but there are barriers he must cross and with crossing barriers, must have something to hold on - a familiar face to look into, a guiding hand, a re-affirming voice to dispel all the worries and anxieties he is curently going through.

Take it slow, allow him to gain more trust in you.

That's all I can think of right now.

IMHO I think your perspective offers maturity, responsibility, and wisdom. It becomes very difficult to submit if the feedback or feeling you get back from the Dominant is full of angst and frustration. It does everything but encourage trust and often sets off warning bells about safety. Despite the fantasy that a submissive will submit just because that is who they are, there is a lot more involved...for one thing, it is also the responsibility of the Dominant to connect in a way with that submissive to make them feel safe in submitting.

It is not one sided...if it were, where would be the challenge, the submission, and the control or dominance...all elements must exist to provide the perfect blend. And there are times when two people are just going to set off each other's triggers....sometimes it can be worked through, sometimes not. Either way I tend to think it is not usually reason for one or both to feel resentment, just recognise the connection is not right and respectfully move on.

Catalina

 

[BlueSugar]

I remember being 18...19 years old.

I remember sex and love and knowing what I wanted, and what I was interested in. I remember the sex/relationship that I wanted - and the sex/relationship I was getting.

I know because of my upbringing and fucked up life experiences and my need for knowledge of anything that interested me (espically sex and deviency from the vanilla) - I was a bit more mature then the rest of my friends, which was a bit alienating - thus the concentration on my self and who I was.

I remember being scared and unsure, and trying to find the right person. I remember I wanted to be a submissive, but didn't know what that truely meant. Or what I wanted out of anyone.

I think maybe hes having trouble because hes trying to get over the stigma that submissives are females?
Or maybe you're moving too fast for him. Start over, or go slower. Super simple, treat him as if he is a virgin to the whole bdsm experience, like you personally opened the door and BAM there it is, his eyes big as saucers in wonderment and awe.

Give one task at a time, maybe ask him to keep a journal of his feelings. Take time out and talk about progress. And what direction to go in next.
Be very specific... down to where to keep his eyes and what direction to face etc...

I have no idea what he is up to, or how you train, but my idea about what I've read so far... is that you've taken advantage of having trained subs before and all these little things were already taken care of. Now all these little things are adding up and driving you crazy.
Now instead of slightly training a sub to your liking, you have this perfectly new lump of clay to mold into something beautiful.

 

[Netzach]

I never did anything sexual with anyone till I was 18 and I lost my hetero cherry at 19. looka me now, ma.

I was, by all descriptions around me, very mature for 19, but very sure that I was unsure about a lot of things.

Personally I think there are those who are better at training and those who are better at owning. I enjoy the process of figuring out where someone fits in, whether that's somewhere on the sub, bottom, top or even Dom continuum, and I have what I think is almost endless patience and less investment in my sub being *extremely submissive* in orientation.

I am not consistent enough or insistant enough for a lot of people's idea of a good owner. That's ok, I have a pet who works for me and I liken owning this pet to owning a cat rather than a pup.

 

[Laoghaire]

I think maybe hes having trouble because hes trying to get over the stigma that submissives are females?
Or maybe you're moving too fast for him. Start over, or go slower. Super simple, treat him as if he is a virgin to the whole bdsm experience, like you personally opened the door and BAM there it is, his eyes big as saucers in wonderment and awe.

I did send him my list of requirements and he replied that he "understood" them. I did tell him that I would teach him all he needed to know and stuff and I tried mild humliation and he wouldn't do it. I gave him a list of toys I'd want him to get eventually and he came up with a list of excuses as to why he couldn't purchase them. I'm willing to start from scratch but the sub has to be willing to meet me halfway, ya know.

Give one task at a time, maybe ask him to keep a journal of his feelings. Take time out and talk about progress. And what direction to go in next.
Be very specific... down to where to keep his eyes and what direction to face etc...

That is an excellent idea. I shall ask that of my subs from now on. Thanx!

I have no idea what he is up to, or how you train, but my idea about what I've read so far... is that you've taken advantage of having trained subs before and all these little things were already taken care of. Now all these little things are adding up and driving you crazy.

You're absolutely right.

Now instead of slightly training a sub to your liking, you have this perfectly new lump of clay to mold into something beautiful.

And I've no patience... just my luck, huh?