The Welfare State vs The Lazy-Ass Hippies (political? well, kinda)

[Liar]

I mean, look. I'm all for a little social support. If you can't reasonably work and earn your living, you should not be left to starve.

These people however, deserves to be tarred, feathered, hung up in a bungy string and dunked repeatedly in the nearest lake.

Thankfully, the courts and social services seems to agree with me. So maybe there's hope for the world. If Sweden, maybe the most welfare-friendly country in the world don't accept "I just don't wanna work" as an excuse to cash in welfare, I doubt anyone else will.

'Workshy' couple see benefits reduced

Published: 3rd August 2007 14:42 CET

A married couple in Kinda in the south east of Sweden have lost a court bid to retain their current level of welfare payments. For almost ten years the husband and wife pair have asserted their right to opt out of the rat race and live on a combination of state support and their own crops.

Ötergötland county court disagreed however, ruling that there were no health issues preventing the pair from taking up employment and that their benefits should therefore be reduced, Corren.se reports.

In a letter to the county court, the husband had argued for a reversal of the decision taken by local social services at the end of May to reduce the couple's benefits.

"Conventional work is out of the question for me - both in terms of my conscience and on an intellectual level - as it seems objectionable with regard to both my personal well-being and the well-being of society as a whole. Emotionally too it creates unbearable pain and dejection," he wrote.

The local council has tried on a number of occasions to convince the couple to reconsider their life choice - but to no avail.

The court based its decision on an interpretation of the Social Services Act, which stipulates that recipients of social welfare payments must actively seek work and accept any subsequent job offers.

The drop in income is likely to mean that the couple will no longer be able to afford the house they are currently renting in the countryside near Kinda, forcing them instead to move to a built-up area. But the married couple are loath to leave the countryside, arguing that they are unsuited to the "atmosphere" in town.

The pair have now pledged to take their case to the administrative court of appeal.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Nice one, Liar. I have to agree. People who cannot work need help. People who invent what appear to them to be high-flown-sounding reasons as to why work is too insufferable to their aesthetic ideals need a kick in the pants seat. Well, that or a landed estate. But without the latter, we're all faced with that same cruel choice that Nature hands out with inartistic repetitiousness: work or starve.

It's just a pity that they've evidently made this work for them for ten years.

 

[SeaCat]

Bah,

I so wish this would happen to my poor little unemployable niece. (Unemployable by choice I may add.)

Cat

 

[rgraham666]

Not going to comment. Brrrr.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Be nice if they could be given a 40 acre plot somewhere, whatever personal property they can carry, and allowed to salve their tender conciences and sensibilities by living completely off the land. Heck, I'd even stake them some seeds and basic tools. A couple years of near-starvation and backbreaking toil might change their outlook.

 

[R. Richard]

Be nice if they could be given a 40 acre plot somewhere, whatever personal property they can carry, and allowed to salve their tender conciences and sensibilities by living completely off the land. Heck, I'd even stake them some seeds and basic tools. A couple years of near-starvation and backbreaking toil might change their outlook.

Unfortunately, the 'backbreaking toil' would probably consist of begging along the nearest highway.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I mean, look. I'm all for a little social support. If you can't reasonably work and earn your living, you should not be left to starve.

These people however, deserves to be tarred, feathered, hung up in a bungy string and dunked repeatedly in the nearest lake.

Thankfully, the courts and social services seems to agree with me. So maybe there's hope for the world. If Sweden, maybe the most welfare-friendly country in the world don't accept "I just don't wanna work" as an excuse to cash in welfare, I doubt anyone else will.

Thank goodness. That would be TOO far to the left.

 

[amicus]

Heh, therein lies the future fate of Europe.

(Amicus snickers)

 

[oggbashan]

Locally, the reality seems to be the opposite - those too sick to work are harassed because they aren't actively seeking work.

The people who would like to work but can't vastly outnumber those who could work but won't - but the latter are much more visible and obnoxiously voluble.

Og

 

[impressive]

It's sometimes amazing what people believe they are entitled to.

 

[amicus]

What with the Russians planting a flag on the North Pole to claim oil reserves and then resuming long distant patrols observing US Naval operations in the Northern Regions, I wonder if a weakened NATO, and European resolve in general might just role over and go 'tits up' if the Russians are coming again?

Losing France, Spain and Italy, ah well, C'est La Vie, and the Low Countries, ah come see, come saw (or whatever that phrase is), but, geez, Ogg, are the Limey's really in that bad a shape?

That troubles me.

Amicus...

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Evidentally I've been living in the wrong country for ten years. I don't wanna work either!
But seriously.. that is nuts.

My friend's cousin is an example of milking the system. She is 26 years old, has two kids, and swears the only job she can get is as a waitress. (Well, no, she didn't go to school, but I worked at McD's for almost $10/hour.) Anyway, her mom died last year, and she had been living with her. The grandparents have let her continue to live there, rent-free. They provided her car for her. They fix the aforementioned car when it breaks. She calls them to borrow money when the mood strikes her. She gets food stamps. She has a babysitter through the state. She gets child suport.
You'd think she'd be concerned with herself and her children and save up what money she could.
Nope. She's constantly bugging my friend to go out clubbin' with her, or to go out to eat, or whatever the case may be.
I say if ya don't have enough money to buy food, ya sure as hell don't have enough to hit the clubs.
It's a rough existance.. called.. 'living within your means'.

 

[Guest]

Locally, the reality seems to be the opposite - those too sick to work are harassed because they aren't actively seeking work.

The people who would like to work but can't vastly outnumber those who could work but won't - but the latter are much more visible and obnoxiously voluble.

Og

Yes, I've seen this too.

This blatant abuse of the system winds up hurting those who need it the most.

 

[cloudy]

Yes, I've seen this too.

This blatant abuse of the system winds up hurting those who need it the most.

I agree, however, I've also seen that our system in the states isn't working, either.

I have a friend who is divorced, and has two school-age boys (young, tho). Her housing is paid for by HUD, but its not anything all that nice, just a trailer in a trailer park - livable, though. She gets about $320/mo in foodstamps to feed all three of them, and her only "income" is the $400/mo childsupport she receives. Thankfully, her ex is decent about paying it. Out of that, she has to pay her utility bills and anything needed by the household that isn't food.

If she goes to work while her kids are in school (they're still too young to leave by themselves), even at a low-paying part-time job, her HUD benefits don't get decreased - they're gone, and her foodstamps will get cut to the point that it's not worth the hassle of filling out the paperwork to receive them.

It doesn't pay her to work, and I don't blame her a bit. I wouldn't work, either, in her situation.

But, before we scream "abuse of the system," let's think if any of us could scrape by on what she does. I'm not sure I could, and it amazes me that she does.

 

[Lisa Denton]

I mean, look. I'm all for a little social support. If you can't reasonably work and earn your living, you should not be left to starve.

These people however, deserves to be tarred, feathered, hung up in a bungy string and dunked repeatedly in the nearest lake.

Thankfully, the courts and social services seems to agree with me. So maybe there's hope for the world. If Sweden, maybe the most welfare-friendly country in the world don't accept "I just don't wanna work" as an excuse to cash in welfare, I doubt anyone else will.

Quote:
'Workshy' couple see benefits reduced

Published: 3rd August 2007 14:42 CET


In a letter to the county court, the husband had argued for a reversal of the decision taken by local social services at the end of May to reduce the couple's benefits.

"Conventional work is out of the question for me - both in terms of my conscience and on an intellectual level - as it seems objectionable with regard to both my personal well-being and the well-being of society as a whole. Emotionally too it creates unbearable pain and dejection," he wrote.

Although I am not sure of how the system is run in Sweden I would assume its paid for with taxes, unless welfare money falls from the sky (?). Perhaps a letter in reply from those paying would be appropriate:

"Dear Bums,
Conventional welfare taxes is out of the question for me - both in terms of my conscience and on an intellectual level - as it seems objectionable with regard to both my personal well-being and the well-being of society as a whole. Emotionally too it creates unbearable pain and dejection. Get a job."

These people make the truly needy look bad. There are so many who just need a temporary hand up, not a hand out, and will work with pride to support themselves and families. With better care and oversight (not the 10 years wasted on this people) the system could have helped so many who would now be employed and paying taxes to help others who need a temporary hand up.

 

[amicus]

Wow, Sweetsubsarah, Cloudy and Lisa Denton, all in a row? OMG!


I know this is a totally alien thought to you, but can you imagine a time when there was no 'welfare' support for single mothers? When, 'child support' didn't exist, when there were no food stamps or AID or HUD or the thousands of other programs to support women who could not find a way to be wives and mothers within traditional boundaries?

How on earth did they survive?

It is called, 'family'.

If you lost a husband in a war, your family got you back on your feet.

Only in the past half century, following world war two, with the 'sexual revolution' and women's lib, has the family issue become a wide social issue.

So what the fuck, leave your hubby, fuck someone else, get child support, get food stamps, get housing, get babysitting, get taken care of by the welfare state, hey, you deserve it! Right?

Fuck the family, they don't understand any way, hey, I am a liberated woman, free choice, I can fuck anyone I want.

Yeah, sure...works for you.

Half the kids in America don't know who there father is. No big deal, right?

Women, given their freedom, for they sure as fuck did not earn it, have screwed the pooch, no doubt.

Now what?

Yeah, I know...so what...somebody needs to say you bitches are running around naked (the emperor has no clothes), sorry for the vernacular.

Finally see where the 'Feminine Mistake' comes from?

No?

Yeah, I know.

Shut up, Amicus....

 

[Guest]

No, but I remember where the Amicus Mistake came from.

Have a peachy day, ami.

 

[rgraham666]

Same thing happens with my disability, cloudy.

Every dollar I make in royalties results in fifty cents taken off my disability. The authorities then add $100 dolllars to it. So essentially, if I make more than $200 I'm in a fifty per cent tax bracket.

That's an improvement. Up until a year ago, seventy five cents would get taken off my disability, and no top up.

The person who put those rules in place also cut disability by 23% when he got into power and considered making homelessness a felony for a while.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Wow, Sweetsubsarah, Cloudy and Lisa Denton, all in a row? OMG!


I know this is a totally alien thought to you, but can you imagine a time when there was no 'welfare' support for single mothers? When, 'child support' didn't exist, when there were no food stamps or AID or HUD or the thousands of other programs to support women who could not find a way to be wives and mothers within traditional boundaries?

Amicus....

WTF thread did you mean to be postin in?

Maybe Liar started this thread to talk about a couple in sweden who didn't want to work. Why don't you start a thread and title it:
"Kill all them fuckin women"
and discuss things which bring you pleasure on that thread.

You used to merely attack me personally in passing, if you plan to go off topic on every thread to attack those who have what you will never get that is one thing, but if you start going off topic on every thread to attack me personally I might get a lil pissed.

Consider this a nice warning.

 

[Liar]

Same thing happens with my disability, cloudy.

Every dollar I make in royalties results in fifty cents taken off my disability. The authorities then add $100 dolllars to it. So essentially, if I make more than $200 I'm in a fifty per cent tax bracket.

Lovely, ain't it? I have the same problem with my student loans. All in all, they can't cover the cost of living, eating, books and the annual pair of shoes so I have something to walk to classes in. I'm about $100 short every month. So naturally, I have to find a part time income. I'm lucky to have a good one, writing articles. But whenever I happen to be too industrious, too hard working, the guvment decides to cut my grants by 50% of what I make. Before taxes. And this is not even money I get to keep. It's money I get to borrow. No wonder 4 out of 5 students work illegally instead.

And that's the rub, you have the same flawed logic in your system over there as we have here, and all it does is make losers out of those who want to do right for themselves and follow the rules while working themselves out of that dependency, and makes winners out of those that just want to abuse the system.

 

[jomar]

It's sometimes amazing what people believe they are entitled to.

My thoughts exactly. Entitlement issues.

 

[rgraham666]

It's what happens when you use a priori logic, Liar.

The basic idea is that anybody on any sort of public support is a never do well who deserves nothing, save the back of your hand.

So they set up a system to prove this true.

Oh well. No society based on religion, and our society is very religious about its economics, treats sinners well.

 

[xssve]

Heh, therein lies the future fate of Europe.

(Amicus snickers)

European workers have higher productivity rates than we do, even with the long vacations, Ours is among the lowest in the industrialized world, while Swedens has tied with Korea for the fastest productivity growth for the decade.

Yes, we had a good social support system before child welfare, it was called prostitution.

 

[amicus]

"...Consider this a nice warning...."

~~~

So, a warning, so whaddaya gonna do? Hiss and spit? Why not just put me on 'ignore' like most of the other left wing twats do?

You sure as hell don't have the intellectual equipment to enter into any kind of a discussion, take your panties and go home to daddy, little girl

Amicus...no quarter...

 

[Liar]

Oh, and by the way, speaking of Sweden and welfare... when in doubt, blame Ozzy.

On a serious note though, I suppose the guy actually has a documented psychological condition. Like other social addictions with elements of manic obsession (gambling being one common one), it can be crippling. But like the shrink in the article says... doesn't this fella need therapy instead of a get-out-of-work card?

Man gets sick benefits for heavy metal addiction

Published: 19th June 2007 15:12 CET

A Swedish heavy metal fan has had his musical preferences officially classified as a disability. The results of a psychological analysis enable the metal lover to supplement his income with state benefits.

Roger Tullgren, 42, from Hässleholm in southern Sweden has just started working part time as a dishwasher at a local restaurant.

Because heavy metal dominates so many aspects of his life, the Employment Service has agreed to pay part of Tullgren's salary. His new boss meanwhile has given him a special dispensation to play loud music at work.

"I have been trying for ten years to get this classified as a handicap," Tullgren told The Local.

"I spoke to three psychologists and they finally agreed that I needed this to avoid being discriminated against."

Roger Tullgren first developed an interest in heavy metal when his older brother came home with a Black Sabbath album in 1971.

Since then little else has mattered for the 42-year-old, who has long black hair, a collection of tattoos and wears skull and crossbones jewelry.

The ageing rocker claims to have attended almost three hundred shows last year, often skipping work in the process.

Eventually his last employer tired of his absences and Tullgren was left jobless and reliant on welfare handouts.

But his sessions with the occupational psychologists led to a solution of sorts: Tullgren signed a piece of paper on which his heavy metal lifestyle was classified as a disability, an assessment that entitles him to a wage supplement from the job centre.

"I signed a form saying: 'Roger feels compelled to show his heavy metal style. This puts him in a difficult situation on the labour market. Therefore he needs extra financial help'. So now I can turn up at a job interview dressed in my normal clothes and just hand the interviewers this piece of paper," he said.

The manager at his new workplace allows him to go to concerts as long as he makes up for lost time at a later point. He is also allowed to dress as he likes and listen to heavy metal while washing up.

"But not too loud when there are guests," he said.

The Local spoke to an occupational psychologist in Stockolm, who admitted to being baffled by the decision.

"I think it's extremely strange. Unless there is an underlying diagnosis it is absolutely unbelievable that the job centre would pay pay out.

"If somebody has a gambling addiction, we don't send them down to the racetrack. We try to cure the addiction, not encourage it," he said.

Henrietta Stein, deputy employment director for the Skåne region, is also puzzled by the move; "an interest in music" is not usually sufficient to qualify for wage benefits.

"Certain cases are confidential but in general there is always a medical reason that is well-documented," she said.

Tullgren currently plays bass and guitar in two rock bands and says that he tends to get a lot of positive reactions for daring to be himself.

"Some might say that I should grow up and learn to listen to other types of music but I can't. Heavy metal is my lifestyle," he said.