The Wanted Poster - A Rant

[lovecraft68]

I think I am going to stereotype here but I do believe it is true to a degree. If the audience is male I think they want the specifics of the woman breast size (if not cup things like full ample well endowed etc..) they want the woman described to a T and could give two shits about the guy except for penis size cause they want to think the girl is getting nailed a by a big one.

I think women on the other hand like to let the imagination roam and not have it all spelled out they like more subtle descriptions and forming their own visuals of the character.

Funny because before I posted on lit I sent a rough draft of my first story Almost Perfect to Paco Fear. he sent it back and was very good about telling me what he liked and what I did right but also gave me some pointers.

First and foremost? Do not mention breast size as in an actual measurement. I said "Allison" had 36c breasts. he said use other words that it varies woman to woman and blah blah blah and I think he was right better to just let the reader envision what they think "full" or "ample" would be.

 

[PennLady]

Umm, yes they are. What other motivation is there to post about it?

How about because we think it's an interesting thing to discuss? How after the initial statement, we then talk about how we approach this in our own writing, and why we don't care for it in many cases? Those are legit reasons to post it.

Don't be stupid by using this to say I don't want anyone to talk about writing on the AH. This thread isn't just talking about writing, it's trying to dictate what should be written.

That's your take, not mine. I'm not trying to dictate what anyone should write. If you see my saying as I don't care for it, or don't read it, as "dictating," well, then I'm not the one being stupid.

If it comes up in requested feedback, that's one thing. But to open up a thread on telling people what you don't like--you are trying to dictate to them what to write.

Look, the OP never said anything about a specific writer or story. Neither did I. I'm not trying to dictate to anyone, and I never would.

Don't be silly about this.

It would appear that unless I agree with you, you'll never think I'm anything else.

If I don't like a particular approach to writing on Lit., I'll just read something else. In most case there's a reading public for it, and it's not my "good" to tell them they can't read/write what they like.

And once more, with feeling, I never told anyone what to write or not.

 

[sr71plt]

How about because we think it's an interesting thing to discuss? How after the initial statement, we then talk about how we approach this in our own writing, and why we don't care for it in many cases? Those are legit reasons to post it.



That's your take, not mine. I'm not trying to dictate what anyone should write. If you see my saying as I don't care for it, or don't read it, as "dictating," well, then I'm not the one being stupid.



Look, the OP never said anything about a specific writer or story. Neither did I. I'm not trying to dictate to anyone, and I never would.



It would appear that unless I agree with you, you'll never think I'm anything else.



And once more, with feeling, I never told anyone what to write or not.

I may be wrong, but I don't think you posted the OP.

Some of your other comments just aren't point on the quote given. But, I don't see why you need to be responding like you were the one who posted the self-characterized rant.

Argue with yourself. A "rant" was posted. I don't see why I can't respond to it with my own "rant" to the "rant."

The fact is that this OP is about intolerance and not really understanding what issue the OP is attacking. It isn't about measurements--and it's not the measurements themselves that have meaning for the reader. They are only symbols to establish images, given in the way that resonates with particular types of readers. It's about what evokes the "turn-on" images. In some (Those that registered strong S in the Myers-Briggs), figures/measures are what translate to the "turn-on" image. What is happening here on this thread is the lack of tolerance and understanding of what connects with someone else.

I don't like stories where the author piles on words with two more syllables than they can handle, or where they just give me a slice of their day with no beginning, end, or story arc, or where they don't emotionally set up the fuck scene, or where they have to read me the fashion label on each piece of clothing as they take it off before having sex (three out of four of these are key elements of Chic Lit). But I don't initiate AH threads to inform everyone that I don't like these. Because, if I did, I would be telling everyone else how they should write--that I expect all stories to please me personally. It is gigantic volume site; it's fine with me if those who like to write/read these things also use the Web site. I don't feel the need to launch threads to tell them what I personally want to see posted here and what I don't. That's what this thread does.

You apparently don't get this. Or you don't agree. But I can give my opinion on it just as much as you can.

And this isn't discussing "writing." This is telling others who didn't ask for the advice what they should/shouldn't write. And we get the same rant every two weeks.

 

[PennLady]

I think I am going to stereotype here but I do believe it is true to a degree. If the audience is male I think they want the specifics of the woman breast size (if not cup things like full ample well endowed etc..) they want the woman described to a T and could give two shits about the guy except for penis size cause they want to think the girl is getting nailed a by a big one.

I think women on the other hand like to let the imagination roam and not have it all spelled out they like more subtle descriptions and forming their own visuals of the character.

I've discussed this stereotype with others and it would appear to have some general, very general, truth to it. I've heard from plenty of men who don't like the laundry lists. However, a friend of mine said that -- again, in general -- men prefer more graphic, visual descriptions, and women not so much. I can't say I mind in particular either way, it all depends on how it's presented, how true it is to the characters, etc.

 

[PennLady]

I may be wrong, but I don't think you posted the OP.

No, I didn't.

 

[estragon]

Umm, yes they are. What other motivation is there to post about it?

Don't be stupid by using this to say I don't want anyone to talk about writing on the AH. This thread isn't just talking about writing, it's trying to dictate what should be written.

If it comes up in requested feedback, that's one thing. But to open up a thread on telling people what you don't like--you are trying to dictate to them what to write.

Don't be silly about this.

I think estragon's entries on the feedback board about specific stories liked/not liked is fine. That's not what this thread on the AH is--it's an attempt to choke off writing/reading choices to meet estragon's personal tastes--and then yours as well, apparently.

If I don't like a particular approach to writing on Lit., I'll just read something else. In most case there's a reading public for it, and it's not my "good" to tell them they can't read/write what they like.

Estragon (and you) have your rant on this topic; I have mine.

I said it was a rant, and that you have been warned. If I want to rant, I will rant. I'm not telling anyone what to write or not to write. I am telling the world what I don't like. That is what a rant is. You, of course, (and I'm speaking to sr specifically and everyone else generally) have the same right. And I am certain that no one who writes Wanted Poster stories gives a raw red roaring rusty fuck what I think.

sr, in fairness, I do mention stories I liked or disliked elsewhere in the SF location, hopefully with specific reasons.

 

[sr71plt]

sr, in fairness, I do mention stories I liked or disliked elsewhere in the SF location, hopefully with specific reasons.

And, in fairness, if you look at my posts, you'll see that I posted that you did this and that I thought it was fine to do.

That said, you would not have posted your personal preferences if you didn't want to influence others to accede to them. You would, as I noted in my last post, have kept them to yourself as personal guidance for your own reading/writing--and just let others write/read as they pleased. I repeat that I think it is silly to pretend otherwise.

 

[PennLady]

And, in fairness, if you look at my posts, you'll see that I posted that you did this and that I thought it was fine to do.

That said, you would not have posted your personal preferences if you didn't want to influence others to accede to them. You would, as I noted in my last post, have kept them to yourself as personal guidance for your own reading/writing--and just let others write/read as they pleased. I repeat that I think it is silly to pretend otherwise.

I keep saying I won't do this but -- please. Why must he keep it to himself? Why can't he post it and see what others think? Why is it you think every time someone posts an opinion like this -- a general opinion -- that they are dictating or trying to influence? Sometimes a rant is just a rant.

Just because you ascribe a reason for someone posting doesn't mean you're right.

 

[estragon]

SA Penn Lady, thanks for the defense, but dinna' fash yersel', as they say in the Hielands. sr loves to pontificate, and I take no offense. As for my intentions, whatever I say, sr will interpret them as he likes. I see no point in arguing. As this Board is where writers talk about writing, and as I do post my stories on Lit (although none of them is as good as yours), I'll talk about writing. And sr can talk about whatever--as if anyone could stop him.

Oh yes, "A New Birth of Freedom Ch 2" is out for licensing approval. And I've just now submitted a fan fiction piece called "The Way It Should Have Been". Talk about temerity! First I try to write about Grand Master dweaver999's fabulous characters from his "Valerie" series (totally hot, totally believable, utterly brilliant). Next, I have the titanic testicles to try to write a different ending for a Dick Francis novel--he only wrote 35 best sellers that have sold over 60 million copies in 60 years. How do you spell "brazen impudence"? What the hell, shoot the puck--it might go in.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I keep thinking about writing a sexually explicit Damon Runyon story.

 

[stephen55]

I keep thinking about writing a sexually explicit Damon Runyon story.

"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's how the smart money bets."

Unless you're a dope, a real maroon like Benny the Newt. Benny was known for two things; his peanut brain and his elephant dick. Angel Cake had little use for the first but she had a certain penchant for the second. That's why she was here. She had followed Benny to the klutz's favorite saloon, The Naked Lady and she wasn't there for the show. The place was run by Jake "Seconds" Lafontaine and his nick referred to the room in the back where Jake separated dupes like Benny from their money. As well as dealing seconds to poker players, Jake had a nice little sideshow going playing the ponies and Angel Cake had a plan. If it didn't pan out she could always loose her clothes and get a job serving Jake's bathtub gin. All things considered, she was betting on plan A, not that she ever minded loosing her clothes.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Excellent, now you have to write it all in present tense, including the past actions...

 

[3113]

a reader who seeks out this type of story doesn’t want it to be hidden. He likes it that she’s like a sex phone operator, describing her girly parts in order to arouse him.

It may even support his illusion of immediacy that she ‘talks’ to him like people actually talk sometimes if asked to provide a quick description of themselves. (If not bra sizes, surely height and weight are often used.)

While most of us may find smut works better for us if it doesn’t show its hand quite so blatantly, there’s always been an audience for these flirty-confessional-naïve accounts, and so long as we don't start giving them literary awards, I’m not too bothered with where “too corny to work” begins for someone else.

I think you're spot on. The "wanted" or "sex ad" poster at the start of a story tends to set a tone indicating a made-to-order fantasy. And to be fair, this goes for romantic fantasies, too, where the heroine might describe herself as not being all that (I'm only 5'3" and barely a C-cup. I'm not all that pretty...) so as to fulfill the female reader's fantasy of someone like herself getting the sexy guy, rather than the 38-DD girl.

 

[3113]

That said, you would not have posted your personal preferences if you didn't want to influence others to accede to them. You would, as I noted in my last post, have kept them to yourself as personal guidance for your own reading/writing--and just let others write/read as they pleased.

However, such rants can lead to analysis that could be informative, rather than just to a chain reaction of more rants. Excepting the rants between the three of you on ranting about such things, many responses here are examining and analyzing the use of descriptive lists, in what kind of stories such lists might be beneficial or detrimental. Likewise which sorts of readers might want or not want such a list.

If a rant leads to such analysis, I think it can then be of benefit, as the thread eases off preaching a point of view and starts, instead to examine and inform. Yes?

 

[sr71plt]

However, such rants can lead to analysis that could be informative, rather than just to a chain reaction of more rants. Excepting the rants between the three of you on ranting about such things, many responses here are examining and analyzing the use of descriptive lists, in what kind of stories such lists might be beneficial or detrimental. Likewise which sorts of readers might want or not want such a list.

If a rant leads to such analysis, I think it can then be of benefit, as the thread eases off preaching a point of view and starts, instead to examine and inform. Yes?

Do you mean it can be taken from a statement of intolerance (the same one given every two weeks) to one of balance? Yes, I suppose it can. It could start off as a fresh discussion not based in intolerance to begin with, of course. This one didn't.

But then, since I apparently never discuss writing here . . .

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I like to think of it as balanced and based in common sense and reality.

No, and you know it. Erotic fiction works in the mind. I may get wet with a dark haired six-foot stud with a two foot schlong. So how are you going to suck me in with some graphic descrition of physical attributes of a blond midget with a six inch appendage? Leave me to fantasize and don't destroy my images with irrelevant bodily details. A lot of stories on Lit are written for the writer's pre-conceived views of what titillates him/her.

 

[sr71plt]

No, and you know it. Erotic fiction works in the mind. I may get wet with a dark haired six-foot stud with a two foot schlong. So how are you going to suck me in with some graphic descrition of physical attributes of a blond midget with a six inch appendage? Leave me to fantasize and don't destroy my images with irrelevant bodily details. A lot of stories on Lit are written for the writer's pre-conceived views of what titillates him/her.

As usual, you miss the point entirely. I agree completely with your second and last sentences, which is the reason why I'm objecting to this thread. What you have in the middle shows that you don't understand my point. This is a humongous site, catering to a whole range of interests and turn-ons. The stories the OP jabs weren't written for you or estagon. They were written for a range of other readers/writers whose minds are turned on by this approach.

I'm not trying to choke anything off here--the OP is attempting that--and apparently you expect it all to be written for you personally too.

Not that you're making any sort of effort to write and post anything yourself.

 

[stephen55]

Excellent, now you have to write it all in present tense, including the past actions...

I admit I can't remember ever reading a Damon Runyon story, and I haven't read a Dashiell Hammett story either.

I have seen Bogey play Sam Spade.

You won't need much of anybody's help. You're pretty good. As a matter of fact, you're very good. It's chiefly your eyes, I think, and the throb you get in your voice when you say, "Oh, be generous, Mr. Spade."

 

[PennLady]

However, such rants can lead to analysis that could be informative, rather than just to a chain reaction of more rants. Excepting the rants between the three of you on ranting about such things, many responses here are examining and analyzing the use of descriptive lists, in what kind of stories such lists might be beneficial or detrimental. Likewise which sorts of readers might want or not want such a list.

If a rant leads to such analysis, I think it can then be of benefit, as the thread eases off preaching a point of view and starts, instead to examine and inform. Yes?

Well, yes, I think that's the point. Despite accusations to the contrary, no one is trying to choke off any one kind of writing style. I don't care for laundry lists most of the time. However, at times they work, and are done well, and are appropriate to the character/story.

As a personal preference, as I said, I'm not big on them.

My apologies, I don't mean to rant about any particular thing. I was just discussing.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Well, yes, I think that's the point. Despite accusations to the contrary, no one is trying to choke off any one kind of writing style. I don't care for laundry lists most of the time. However, at times they work, and are done well, and are appropriate to the character/story.

As a personal preference, as I said, I'm not big on them.

My apologies, I don't mean to rant about any particular thing. I was just discussing.

TONGUE BATH SERVICE

NUMBER ITEM

______ Lips and Mouth (inside and out)

______ Neck (includes nape)

______ Breasts (nipples included for females)

______ Nipples (males only)

______ Thumb

______ Forefinger

______ Navel (outies extra)

______ Buttock Crack

______ Anus

______ Perineum

______ Scrotum

______ Penis (glans included; foreskin extra)

______ Labia Majora

______ Labia Minora

______ Clitoris (hood included)

______ Vaginal Vestibule

______ Inner Thigh (pairs)

______ Feet (both, complete)

______ Big Toe only

______ Sole or Instep