The Walking Dead

[about_average]

Carl's age isn't a good time marker at all because the series is not one year to a year of ours.

Yeah, I know, but he's an in-your-face anachronism. They should have killed him off early on if they didn't want to use that timeline.

Remember fucking Glorfindel!

A friend of mine went to the second movie wearing a "Remember Glorfindel!" t-shirt.

Jackson fucked up so much (I'm a little surprised a book hasn't been written about it) but Farimir and replacing Glorfindel with Arwen are especially bad.
Jackson was too stupid to realize Glorfindel was one of the few elves who could stand up to the Black Riders, that's why he was out on the road. He chased them from the bridge over the River Hoarwell so Strider and the hobbits could pass safely. If it had actually been Arwen out there the Black Riders would have just killed her if she hadn't fled from them. She didn't have the ancestry to stand up to them.

My point at the moment was that Reci seemed to be chalking up Tolkien's goofs on him writing for love and not really thinking about what others would think.

What goofs? I can think of possibly only two and they are likely only "goofs" from lack of information.

Contrast that with Jackson's "goofs" which added absolutely nothing to the story other than more fight scenes, more screen time for some actors that added nothing to the story and more opportunity for special effects that added nothing to the story.

 

[Oh_That_Guy]

I get why Carol is a psychotic crazy bitch who will cut you over some tupperware but wow. Maybe she needs to talk it out or something.

 

[Recidiva]

I get why Carol is a psychotic crazy bitch who will cut you over some tupperware but wow. Maybe she needs to talk it out or something.

Never over Tupperware. She'd give that away if someone needed it. She's perfect.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah, I know, but he's an in-your-face anachronism. They should have killed him off early on if they didn't want to use that timeline.

A friend of mine went to the second movie wearing a "Remember Glorfindel!" t-shirt.

Jackson fucked up so much (I'm a little surprised a book hasn't been written about it) but Farimir and replacing Glorfindel with Arwen are especially bad.
Jackson was too stupid to realize Glorfindel was one of the few elves who could stand up to the Black Riders, that's why he was out on the road. He chased them from the bridge over the River Hoarwell so Strider and the hobbits could pass safely. If it had actually been Arwen out there the Black Riders would have just killed her if she hadn't fled from them. She didn't have the ancestry to stand up to them.

What goofs? I can think of possibly only two and they are likely only "goofs" from lack of information.

Contrast that with Jackson's "goofs" which added absolutely nothing to the story other than more fight scenes, more screen time for some actors that added nothing to the story and more opportunity for special effects that added nothing to the story.

Killing Carl would have been great, also a HUGE departure from the comics. And yes they have done a lot of big departures but. . .that's not so much a departure as a complete rewrite of everything after. And without a suitable replacement. (Though I agree.)

Oh I'm sure Jackson knew exactly why Glorfindel was there, but any character who has that kind of limited exposure shouldn't have been in the book and certainly doesn't belong in a 3 hour movie.

What goofs? We've been discussing the Goblin/Orc/Man-Orc/Uruk-Hai issue for a while. Now the more you did the more it's possible it's simply a lack of information provided or something he thought he implied heavily enough but clealry didn't.

They needed more fight scenes. But I can see some of the things people don't like. STill movie>books.

 

[about_average]

Oh I'm sure Jackson knew exactly why Glorfindel was there, but any character who has that kind of limited exposure shouldn't have been in the book and certainly doesn't belong in a 3 hour movie.

In the book Glorfindel had as much, if not more, exposure than Arwen, and certainly a more important role in the events. All Arwen did was marry Aragorn (completely irrelevant to the defeat of Sauron), Glorfindel prevented Frodo from being caught by the black riders, and so Sauron getting his ring back.

 

[Sean Renaud]

In the book Glorfindel had as much, if not more, exposure than Arwen, and certainly a more important role in the events. All Arwen did was marry Aragorn (completely irrelevant to the defeat of Sauron), Glorfindel prevented Frodo from being caught by the black riders, and so Sauron getting his ring back.

Arwen getting cut wasn't an option for the reason you mentioned. So basically Glorf is an extra with a name. No where near as bad as Tom Bombadill who even as goofy as the books get he doesn't really feel like part of the setting. It's like when Ichabod Crane decides to go help out Dr. Brennan on a case. Soemthing is wrong and we all know it.

He could have stuck with the Elves leaving. . .WHY DO WE EVEN HAVE ELVES? On that record I know Middle Earth doesn't have Skype or anything but how the fuck was Gimly unaware of what had happened in Moria?!

 

[about_average]

Arwen getting cut wasn't an option for the reason you mentioned.

She couldn't be cut because she served no role in the War of the Ring?
But in any case, she didn't have to be cut to have someone with the needed ancestry to actually stand up to the black riders, Glorfindel, and save Frodo. She could have still married Aragorn. Afterall, that's what she did in the book. In fact, she could have still been in all the other stupid as fuck scenes Jackson had with her so the Liv Tyler fans could swoon over her.

On that record I know Middle Earth doesn't have Skype or anything but how the fuck was Gimly unaware of what had happened in Moria?!

He strongly suspected, but he didn't know for sure because messengers quit coming from Moria to Erebor.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

1.) What's with all the red letter 'A's?
2.) Is Deanna somehow connected with the Wolves?

 

[Sean Renaud]

No, she couldn't be cut because Aragon's happy ending is kinda important. AT least to "traditional" story telling.

I forgot he suspected, I dont' know where precisely Gimli is supposed to be from though. It seems that all together Middle Earth isn't big enough for people who should be in the know not to be. I mean I get why nobody in the Shire knew much beyond their borders but Elrond wasn't meeting with random punks.

On the subject of the Walking Dead I'm not saying that beating your wife and child are acceptable ways to take out your frustration. I'm not saying that being drunk before the sun has gotten up is a good practice. I'm saying that maybe when you've only got one doctor that maybe he gets special treatment. Because you know. . .a person who was going to be a doctor but got distracted by sparkly things is not a doctor.

Also Morgan. We waited years for you to come back to us brother and. . .you're going to teach us a lesson we already know about not killing people when you have the chance. We don't need that lesson. What we need is you and Michonne to begin breeding an invincible army of Zulu Ninjas trained by Assassin's Creed Carol and sent forth to wreck everything that does not bow down to the only successful religion and government ever known to mankind. A Ricktatorship presided over by the holy one Daryl.

 

[MNGuy]

1.) What's with all the red letter 'A's?
2.) Is Deanna somehow connected with the Wolves?

Carol's cookie buddy kid was stamping red A's on Rick's group at a meet and greet.
Deanna is not connected to the Wolves, but there is a slim chance the people she exiled may have hooked up with them.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Carol's cookie buddy kid was stamping red A's on Rick's group at a meet and greet.
Deanna is not connected to the Wolves, but there is a slim chance the people she exiled may have hooked up with them.

That was a red 'A' on the stair rail in front of Rick's (?) place.

 

[MNGuy]

That was a red 'A' on the stair rail in front of Rick's (?) place.

A kid and his stamper are everywhere, but I do think it is foreshadowing something.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

A kid and his stamper are everywhere, but I do think it is foreshadowing something.

Foreshadowing the return of The Fonz, Zombie edition.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/88/96/f5/8896f500458dc4722f61fe048034c067.jpg

 

[about_average]

No, she couldn't be cut because Aragon's happy ending is kinda important. AT least to "traditional" story telling.

So the defeat of Sauron was only a happy ending because Aragorn got married?
That makes no sense whatsoever. There are plenty of movies with happy endings where a leading character doesn't get married. Not that he's any sort of role model, but even in Peter Jackson movies there are happy endings without a marriage.

But like I said, replacing a character who saved Bilbo with one who couldn't possibly have saved him doesn't mean Aragorn couldn't have married Arwen.
There was plenty of other Arwen bullshit in the movie that apparently was required for "story telling" and marriage.

 

[zipman]

He strongly suspected, but he didn't know for sure because messengers quit coming from Moria to Erebor.

I disagree. He urges them to take the Moria route and speaks of the hospitality they will be shown. Not something you would do if you had strong suspicions. Unless he had ulterior motives (use the company to find out about his kin) which seems out of character for him.

I don't think he knew at all.

 

[zipman]

That was a red 'A' on the stair rail in front of Rick's (?) place.

I thought it was in front of the Armory. Maybe it was a sign by an insider indicating that was a building to attack.

Not sure.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

I thought it was in front of the Armory. Maybe it was a sign by an insider indicating that was a building to attack.

Not sure.

All I know is I'm getting pretty tired of making up my own damn story.

 

[snugglestruggle]

I don't know how LOTR became part of TWD thread but it made me chuckle.

Oh I agree that there is no particularly good explanation for why these bodies seem to have caught fire. SHC is just the stupidest of the explanations we have available.

Writers are people. That aside the plot has to wait for us to get there before it can move. That's just how stories function and most stories have various degress of "why the hell didn't so and so do this that or the other a long time ago or why didn't this random thing randomly happen sooner" and the answer is the plot. It's again the same thing that allows Daryl to use walker heads as blunt weapons and not die. Oh and be surrounded beyond all hope of rescue and survive it.

Zombies ARE magic. But we are currently pretending they are science of some sort. Besides maybe her sword does glow just not for zombies! If I recall properly Glamdrig only glows for orcs (which Tolkien was notoriously unclear on what an orc is. He seems to use Orc, Goblin and occasionally Oruk-hai (however it's spelled) somewhat interchangibly. Especially orc and goblin. The Oruks were cross bred with humans and should have been distinct but. . .Tolkien kinda did what he wanted and I guess that's the advantage of being one of the originators of the modern fantasy. Nobody was around to tell you that's not how it works.

The Urk's were a creation of Saruman and there is no mention of them prior to The Two Towers. Crossing them with humans, using magic are the only 2 explanations since your average ORc is what 5'10?

Yes, you'd think that closing your palm around a zombie jaw and applying pressure would...be bad.

He was not unclear on what an orc was. Yrch were the corrupted forms of elves. Melkor is a bad guy. SOMEONE has not read the Silmarillion.

Oruks were not cross bred with humans. What the hell? It was just ... dark Saruman magic crap.

"A Wizard Did It"

Since Sean hasn't read the Silmarillion ( I bet he skipped the song of the Aniur) it's likely he doesn't know about The Valar, who Melkor was , their war in the first age. Captured Elves being twisted and ruined because Melkor could not create , only mock which is what the Orc's are a mockery of the Elves.

I'm hoping someone decides to make some films out of it as long as they follow it as canon. The Fall of Gondolin would be a kick ass film or The Tale of Turin Turambar. The whole Silmarillion could be turned into half dozen movies at least.

Daryl's like a phoenix!

Son I am disappoint. No. People who are me also know that goblins are the corrupted forms of dwarves. Stop listening to other people.

They are not interchangeable, they are the corrupted forms of Iluvatar's song because Melkor.

Goblins are not corrupted Dwarves, no where does Tolkien say that. The Origin of the Dwarves lies with Aule the Valar who made them. He is the Father of Dwarves. Iluvartar was angry with Aule for creating them before the Elves awoke (first born) but took pity on them and caused them to sleep until the elves awoke first.

Again this is where Tolkien gets a bit unreliable. And Jackson does a decent job most of the time (and frankly the movies>books anyway) but breeding with humans (or whatever the process is exactly. IT is a wizard's doing. He could very well have taken ten orcs and ten men and smooshed them around.) is that they could travel during the day without pain, they were taller (orcs are naturally shortish) and they were more intelligent and thus more capable of being organized and controlled.




Carl's age isn't a good time marker at all because the series is not one year to a year of ours. Once again we know for a fact that the mid point of season 3 (Lori's Death) is pretty much exactly 9 months from the start of the series since the baby is implied to be Shanes and outright stated that Lori didn't know for sure who's it was. I was rewatching just the season premiers and pieced together some more. The gap between S3 and S4 is difficult to pin down but seems to be just a matter of days as they are still reeling from the Governors attack. S4 ends with them captured by the Termites and S5 starts with their escape. Seeing how nobody seems to have gotten ate we're talking days not weeks. S5 ends with Reggie and. . . the doctor's death. S6 starts and they haven't put the bodies in the ground. Again we're talking days.

Carl isn't a good time marker, he's actually the thing that jarringly breaks the illusion. Which got the girl killed in S2 and on Lost got. . . I believe his name was Walt, littl eblack boy? Booted off the island. Because they were supposedly only there for three months.

The easy solution mind you (especially if you're willing to do a few flashbacks like they did to show Morgan coming intot he group) is simply to start an episode with "Five years later" replace the baby with a small girl (and either kill her, sync story time to real time or accept you'll need to do this dance again someday) and call it.

I don't think so, if you just read the first few chapters of the Silmarillion.... Jackson fucked up trying to explain the Urki with that mud scene. Should have just said Saruman learned much magic from Sauron and left it at that. You cant really explain it without going back to the past, Valinor, the exile of the Noldor.

Tolkien wasn't really "unreliable" - he genuinely didn't think anybody would give a damn about the details like this and likely didn't expect people to be arguing about it online 42 years after his death, and he'd probably tell us to relax and have a smoke.

Bad idea, Tolkien, we like arguing and I don't smoke!

I will grant to Jackson that he is a visual genius and I have been a huge fan since "The Frighteners"

However, he fucked up the story unforgivably.

By the time The Hobbit came around unforgivable had turned into "What the fuck, Tolkien is spinning in his grave and for once I'm glad he's dead so he doesn't have to see this shit storm."

You can have whatever you want on this subject and maybe Ghan-Buri-Ghan created the Uruk Hai out of used Solo cups from a frat party.

I get all the other crap he did wrong, which was a fucking lot.

He turned the Hobbits into idiots instead of competent and intuitive friends who were looking out for their chosen family out of love, not out of "Fuck, that shit chased us off the road but good."

I got cave troll and no Tom Bombadil.

Remember fucking Glorfindel! No? Because he wasn't there.

He disrespected Faramir and that alone...I mean really...

Tom Bombadil, the most intriguing character because mystery.

I don't know what definition of "love" you are using. Some people love to write, but a lot, a lot, many, professional authors can't sell what they love and they write what will sell.

The epic shit ton of fan fic is for fun and love. But they're not getting paid.

Han shot first, is all I know, and yes, he was clueless, mostly. Especially on the subject of Jedi, which makes no sense. "Light is light, except when we are judgey and it would look cool to whip around a room and slice shit up."

Comparatively yes, it is slapstick from the source. Radaghast on a bunny sleigh with bird poop on his hat is described otherwise...how? Do not say fucking awesome, do not say fucking awesome.

You don't even know most of the changes, admit it.

Because the road goes ever on and on, fucker.

Radagast was in the movie for filler material. Tolkien writes zero about him beyond what G said..

In the book Glorfindel had as much, if not more, exposure than Arwen, and certainly a more important role in the events. All Arwen did was marry Aragorn (completely irrelevant to the defeat of Sauron), Glorfindel prevented Frodo from being caught by the black riders, and so Sauron getting his ring back.

Since Elves are basically immortal, (it's implied in the Silmarillion) I have often wondered if Glorfindel in TFOTR (book)was the same Glorfindel that slew a Balrog in the retreat after the fall of Gondolin.

She couldn't be cut because she served no role in the War of the Ring?
But in any case, she didn't have to be cut to have someone with the needed ancestry to actually stand up to the black riders, Glorfindel, and save Frodo. She could have still married Aragorn. Afterall, that's what she did in the book. In fact, she could have still been in all the other stupid as fuck scenes Jackson had with her so the Liv Tyler fans could swoon over her.

He strongly suspected, but he didn't know for sure because messengers quit coming from Moria to Erebor.

Liv Tylers part was expanded otherwise she has no part in the film except as Aragorns GF and future wife. I agree about Gimli, not so sure how strongly he suspected it was due to Orcs.

No, she couldn't be cut because Aragon's happy ending is kinda important. AT least to "traditional" story telling.

I forgot he suspected, I dont' know where precisely Gimli is supposed to be from though. It seems that all together Middle Earth isn't big enough for people who should be in the know not to be. I mean I get why nobody in the Shire knew much beyond their borders but Elrond wasn't meeting with random punks.

On the subject of the Walking Dead I'm not saying that beating your wife and child are acceptable ways to take out your frustration. I'm not saying that being drunk before the sun has gotten up is a good practice. I'm saying that maybe when you've only got one doctor that maybe he gets special treatment. Because you know. . .a person who was going to be a doctor but got distracted by sparkly things is not a doctor.

Also Morgan. We waited years for you to come back to us brother and. . .you're going to teach us a lesson we already know about not killing people when you have the chance. We don't need that lesson. What we need is you and Michonne to begin breeding an invincible army of Zulu Ninjas trained by Assassin's Creed Carol and sent forth to wreck everything that does not bow down to the only successful religion and government ever known to mankind. A Ricktatorship presided over by the holy one Daryl.

Gimli was Gloins son (Gloin was one of the dwarves that went with Thorin to reclaim the lonely mountain in the Hobbit).

 

[Fata Morgana]

Fuck those midget bastards and their hairy toes, let's get back to Daryl's knobcheese.

 

[about_average]

I disagree. He urges them to take the Moria route and speaks of the hospitality they will be shown. Not something you would do if you had strong suspicions. Unless he had ulterior motives (use the company to find out about his kin) which seems out of character for him.

That was just Jackson deciding (again) he knew better than Tolkien. In fact it was Gandalf who wanted to take the Moria route and Gimli said he'd go to if Gandalf would lead them there.

Tom Bombadil, the most intriguing character because mystery.

Not that Bombadil was critical to the story (but I think very intriguing and actually had a point in the story), but the occurrences on the Barrow Downs were. It was the first place Frodo learned/developed his courage, in not leaving Sam, Merry and Pippin as he first thought to do. Also, the sword Merry got there was crucial in killing the Witch King.

Radagast was in the movie for filler material. Tolkien writes zero about him beyond what G said..

He probably added him in the Hobbit because he got so much grief for leaving him out of TLoR which then required the ridiculous moth scene.

Since Elves are basically immortal, (it's implied in the Silmarillion) I have often wondered if Glorfindel in TFOTR (book)was the same Glorfindel that slew a Balrog in the retreat after the fall of Gondolin.

Tolkien anguished over this some and ultimately decided they were the same, since Elves could be "reincarnated".

Liv Tylers part was expanded otherwise she has no part in the film except as Aragorns GF and future wife.

You mean just like Tolkien wrote it?
I'm just not a person who thinks every story has to have a "love story" sub plot.

 

[about_average]

Well, I sure didn't see last night's main event coming.

 

[Libsam]

Last night's episode was all about consequences.

And please, if you guys ever see me getting eaten by a zombie, please, don't just stand there and watch, put a fucking bullet in my head. sheesh!!

 

[MNGuy]

Last night's episode was all about consequences.

And please, if you guys ever see me getting eaten by a zombie, please, don't just stand there and watch, put a fucking bullet in my head. sheesh!!

Save the last bullet for yourself, I don't know how ammo supply is at Alexandria, but Nicolas did it right, except for knocking Glenn to his apparent doom.

 

[about_average]

Last night's episode was all about consequences.

And please, if you guys ever see me getting eaten by a zombie, please, don't just stand there and watch, put a fucking bullet in my head. sheesh!!

Ha, yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Michonne could have run her sword through the guy hanging on the gate getting eaten, without any risk.
And for anyone I know who's turned in to a zombie, sorry, if more zombies are coming I'm not going to stand around reflecting on our relationship before putting a knife in your head and running like hell.

 

[Fata Morgana]

Fuck Me Reilly.