The Top's burden

[Marquis]

A question for the PYL's out there.

What do you do if your sub pisses you off? Not breaks the rules or taunts you to be more aggressive, but somehow makes you genuinely dislike them. Is it time to take a breather, or do you just work this into your play?

I fetishize fucking people I really don't like, and making people who like me not like me. I could use this opportunity to get off in that sense, but is that wrong?

I know what she wants is that love/abuse thing, but I have a feeling she'd take just the abuse. Am I wrong to give it to her?

 

[Netzach]

It's not my bag. It takes way too much effort and psychological warfare when I could be fucking someone I *do* like.

I like making people who like me wonder *why* the hell they like me some of the time.

 

[dolf]

*switches to top mode*

personally i think you have to be really careful...it's way too easy to go too far. in the moment when the adrenaline is rushing and your blood's flowing hot it's harder to have full self control...
it depends how far you have urges to go i guess *shrug* but once you go too far it can't be taken back.

lol, get the feeling i haven't helped much
xx

 

[ethereal~minx]

do you care about her?
or would the abuse just continue until you got bored and left?

I'd say the fantasy of fucking someone that doesn't like you & fucking people you don't like is cool, especially if you share that fetish with her. whether it's right or wrong is only for you to decide.

it's about personal integrity ...you're the one that has to look at yourself in the mirror.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Go play in the Cafe

Do you actually have a girlfriend to even cheat on?

 

[Marquis]

I find it funny that I have these feelings at all, because I certainly have no moral objection to casual sex with females I like purely in a sexual sense. However, I can't help but feel like the game is a little different when you add BDSM in, because it takes a lot of trust to sub to someone. I don't think I feel comfortable with someone I don't truly care for giving me that trust.

It's funny how I find that I can satisfy so many of my BDSM related urges better in the Vanilla world.

 

[Marquis]

Re: Go play in the Cafe

Do you actually have a girlfriend to even cheat on?

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Caitlynne]

*SNIP* I don't think I feel comfortable with someone I don't truly care for giving me that trust.

It's funny how I find that I can satisfy so many of my BDSM related urges better in the Vanilla world.

Woah! That was pretty profound.

~ cait

 

[Pure]

Marquis

//I don't think I feel comfortable with someone I don't truly care for giving me that trust.//

As to your original posting, and this later remark.

These are interesting questions. I don't really see the discomfort: If I may use an analogy, there are people on a bus or train with you all the time. You don't care about them. Yet they are, in generally assured youre not going to kill or maim them; surely that's how you feel. Ordinary folks deserve that, independent of your caring.

So, since you're one who stays outta jail, what's the problem 'mistreating' those you dislike, or whom you make dislike you?

It's funny how I find that I can satisfy so many of my BDSM related urges better in the Vanilla world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Cait: "Woah! That was pretty profound. "

I agree with her. As is coming in the 'curious' thread, there is a high degree of respectability and an obsessive amount of caring in what they want to call 'mainstream BDSm'. Following up on what you say, we shouldn't call it 'vanilla BDSM' since vanillas are often a lot more tolerant about a number of matters, including uncommitted sex.

 

[mstrnsvnt]

A question for the PYL's out there.

What do you do if your sub pisses you off? Not breaks the rules or taunts you to be more aggressive, but somehow makes you genuinely dislike them. Is it time to take a breather, or do you just work this into your play?

I fetishize fucking people I really don't like, and making people who like me not like me. I could use this opportunity to get off in that sense, but is that wrong?

I know what she wants is that love/abuse thing, but I have a feeling she'd take just the abuse. Am I wrong to give it to her?

I had a slave who was difficult. She was a very good slave 80% of the time but that other 20% she just would not give. I tried training alot of this behavior out of her but it didn't help that much. Her problem was that she got very emotional at times. She would get sad or angry at something I had not done to her, or taken away from her, for various reasons. Once she was in the funk she just wouldn't listen to me, our established lines of control broke down totaly.

When this first started happening I would punish her. Pain, humiliation or degradation. This helped to a point but it became her little game to make me do it because she enjoyed the above so much.

We then talked about it, setting various modes for us, this didn't help either. I cared about her, as she did me, but our relationship was master/slave only. She wanted more after a few months and I didn't. This may of added to the drama and her emotional episodes.

Finally I called it quits. She understood, at least she said she did, and we went our seperate ways.

I can't have a slave who does not listen. I also think a slave who commits errors or provikes a master to punish her because she likes that is unhealthy. The basis of the M/S relationship is corrupt at that point and the slave often controls the power. It is best to call it quits if discussing these issues and feelings doesn't help.

IMO, that is.

 

[Netzach]

80-20 is close, 90-10 is pretty good, actually, as I see it. I figure everyone's going to remain at least 10 percent a pain in the ass no matter what I do, because we're talking about humans.

 

[mstrnsvnt]

80-20 is close, 90-10 is pretty good, actually, as I see it. I figure everyone's going to remain at least 10 percent a pain in the ass no matter what I do, because we're talking about humans.

That may be true. IMO in relationship as complex as a master/slave one there is little room for being a pain in the ass. Setting various modes and discussing issues when the come up is fine but if a slave can't stop the pain in the ass behavior maybe they really aren't ready to be a slave.

Playful and occasional pain in the ass moments are ok, but when they become the norm and more importantly are done due to the slave wanting something (i.e. punishment, etc) it just corrupts the entire relationship.

 

[Netzach]

If I am in a serious relationship with someone and I see them morphing into something different and unpalatable, I would likely leave the relationship.

As for the question part of your question, what can your conscience tolerate? I pretty shamelessly trod ahead with a woman I knew had it more for me than I for her once and in the end....big fat not worth the guilt/aggravation/mess, I decided. And she was the Top!

 

[FungiUg]

I can't imagine fucking someone I don't actively like. And I can't imagine hurting someone who I know isn't getting off on the pain. That's all too much like rape and abuse to me.

I'm a believer in "what goes around comes around" and the variants on that pattern. There's enough fucked up in my life without me actively adding to the fucked up quotient. The one thing I can (mostly) control is my own behaivour, so that's the principle I work on.

I can accept annoyances, upsets, pain-in-the-arse moments and occasional fuck-ups. We're all human, and I am (or do) those things at times as well. So that's just part of life.

But what makes putting up with those things worthwhile is knowing I like or care for or love the person the rest of the time. Without that... what's the point?

 

[Marquis]

Marquis

//I don't think I feel comfortable with someone I don't truly care for giving me that trust.//

As to your original posting, and this later remark.

These are interesting questions. I don't really see the discomfort: If I may use an analogy, there are people on a bus or train with you all the time. You don't care about them. Yet they are, in generally assured youre not going to kill or maim them; surely that's how you feel. Ordinary folks deserve that, independent of your caring.

So, since you're one who stays outta jail, what's the problem 'mistreating' those you dislike, or whom you make dislike you?

It's funny how I find that I can satisfy so many of my BDSM related urges better in the Vanilla world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Cait: "Woah! That was pretty profound. "

I agree with her. As is coming in the 'curious' thread, there is a high degree of respectability and an obsessive amount of caring in what they want to call 'mainstream BDSm'. Following up on what you say, we shouldn't call it 'vanilla BDSM' since vanillas are often a lot more tolerant about a number of matters, including uncommitted sex.

I have read numerous threads on this board about how to tell a REAL Dom from a Snert, someone just looking to manipulate a sub for sex. I don't think I've ever gotten involved in one of these discussions, but I've never been totally clear on the difference. However, I do have some respect for the proper, SSC way to do BDSM and would consider being a REAL Dom to a sub of sufficient quality.

I'm probably not being clear here, but I have a lot of conflicting feelings going on. Maybe I'm just feeling guilty about using what I know about BDSM to take advantage of a girl who might deserve better. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself in a submissive position, and if a girl is going to consciously submit to me I want her to feel positive about making that decision. I couldn't care less about the girls who inevitably submit to me because they like my car or my cologne, but something about this person making the knowing choice makes it feel different for me.

I'll try to collect my thoughts and respond better.

 

[bytor2112]

A question for the PYL's out there.

What do you do if your sub pisses you off? Not breaks the rules or taunts you to be more aggressive, but somehow makes you genuinely dislike them. Is it time to take a breather, or do you just work this into your play?

I fetishize fucking people I really don't like, and making people who like me not like me. I could use this opportunity to get off in that sense, but is that wrong?

I know what she wants is that love/abuse thing, but I have a feeling she'd take just the abuse. Am I wrong to give it to her?

if you care at all about her, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU ABUSE HER????

and don't say because she wants that, because NO ONE wants to be abused unless they are mentally unstable in some way shape or form..

 

[mstrnsvnt]

Re: Re: The Top's burden

if you care at all about her, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU ABUSE HER????

and don't say because she wants that, because NO ONE wants to be abused unless they are mentally unstable in some way shape or form..

But how do you define abuse? To many some practices withing a master/slave relationship are abusive, physically or mentally. I think I got your point but where is the line. No blanket statement works here. It is all what the couple have decided upon in advance.

 

[bytor2112]

Re: Re: Re: The Top's burden

But how do you define abuse? To many some practices withing a master/slave relationship are abusive, physically or mentally. I think I got your point but where is the line. No blanket statement works here. It is all what the couple have decided upon in advance.

my point is that there should be NO ABUSE whatsoever in a relationship...if one or the other "needs" it then get that person help, not more abuse...

whether or not the folks here will ever admit it, any type of "need" for abuse is directly atrributable to soem type of abuse in their life when they were younger..and it is harmful..

 

[mstrnsvnt]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Top's burden

my point is that there should be NO ABUSE whatsoever in a relationship...if one or the other "needs" it then get that person help, not more abuse...

whether or not the folks here will ever admit it, any type of "need" for abuse is directly atrributable to soem type of abuse in their life when they were younger..and it is harmful..

I don't follow you...

I've engaged in both mental and physcial abuse with a sub. From mind games and humliation to whips and endurance bondage. All various forms of abuse by most terms, even in the BDSM world. I and, my sub at the time, both had wonderful childhoods, no issues what-so-ever. Maybe she of i "needed" it. We are both attracted to the BDSM world, I suppose we need and want it. BDSM means different things to different people but "abuse" does happen in it. be it accept between partners physical or mental abuse to abuse of power or control (which I agree can go in bad directions).

 

[Netzach]

I have read numerous threads on this board about how to tell a REAL Dom from a Snert, someone just looking to manipulate a sub for sex. I don't think I've ever gotten involved in one of these discussions, but I've never been totally clear on the difference. However, I do have some respect for the proper, SSC way to do BDSM and would consider being a REAL Dom to a sub of sufficient quality.

I'm probably not being clear here, but I have a lot of conflicting feelings going on. Maybe I'm just feeling guilty about using what I know about BDSM to take advantage of a girl who might deserve better. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself in a submissive position, and if a girl is going to consciously submit to me I want her to feel positive about making that decision. I couldn't care less about the girls who inevitably submit to me because they like my car or my cologne, but something about this person making the knowing choice makes it feel different for me.

I'll try to collect my thoughts and respond better.

This is really cool, and I find it really mature. It doesn't mean it can't be rough, edgy, or hard. I actuallly *enjoy* the process of entanglement that SM + care about the person can create, I think it can actually deepen and strengthen the potency of your scene. A serious decision to submit or bottom out on the fringes is a serious decision. Respect for that decision is actually a complicated but worthwhile thing.

 

[Marquis]

Aww, thanks Netz.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[mstrnsvnt]

mstrnsvnt Bytor is our local troll. Feel free to ignore him. There is no point in trying to communicate with him on the subject of BDSM.

Thank you for the advice, I didn't know that, thoug I did see a few "troll" like post in my reading. Now I know.