The 'stimulus' isn't going to work, and why.

[TurdFergeson]

Oh, good idea! What about the casino’s on Indian reservations?

They get taxed, at least in Wisconsin:

"Terms of the old compact had the Ho-Chunk paying the state a six percent tax of its take. Under the new compact, the Ho-Chunk will make payments of five percent if net earnings are below $350 million and 5.5 percent if earnings exceed $350 million. The reduced percentage means a loss of millions of dollars to the state. By contrast, the Potawatomi pay 6.5 percent of winnings."

http://blogs.newberlinnow.com/conse...in-taxpayers-lose-in-ho-chunk-settlement.aspx

Not as much as everyone else, true, but they do pay taxes. In fact tax revenues are the usual main incentive for counties or communities to allow them to build new casinos.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You cut the taxes on everyone, and capital gains.

Ain't gonna help.

In the case of the Obama 'stimulus', even the CBO acknowledges that only 50% or so of that money is going to actually reach the economy . . .

Every single dollar government spends immediately winds up in the hands of somebody other than the government. How does it not "reach the economy"? Even food stamps "reach the economy," as anybody who owns a grocery store in a poor neighborhood will tell you.

 

[KingOrfeo]

And get rid of fiat currency!

The whole world has been using "fiat currency" since the early 20th Century at least. What would you replace it with? Gold won't serve, it's too inflexible; it was abandoned for a reason.

 

[TurdFergeson]

The whole world has been using "fiat currency" since the early 20th Century at least. What would you replace it with? Gold won't serve, it's too inflexible; it was abandoned for a reason.

Bi-metals, gold and silver.

I disagree it was "replaced for a *good* reason"...that reason was the consolidation of economic power.

BTW, fiat currency didn't work for Rome. They used it longer than the world has currently used it and it failed.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Bi-metals, gold and silver.

How is that any better?

Political disputes over the relative value of gold and silver for currency purposes tore America apart for decades. See Free Silver. William Jennings Bryan was no economist.

I disagree it was "replaced for a *good* reason"...that reason was the consolidation of economic power.

How does "fiat currency" consolidate economic power, and in whose hands?

BTW, fiat currency didn't work for Rome. They used it longer than the world has currently used it and it failed.

Rome always used metallic currency, they merely debased its precious-metal content in the later Empire.

 

[TurdFergeson]

How does "fiat currency" consolidate economic power, and in whose hands?

Hmmm...maybe the people who print the money, which is intrisically worthless?

BTW, fiat currency didn't work for Rome. They used it longer than the world has currently used it and it failed.

 

[TurdFergeson]

"The history of fiat money, to put it kindly, has been one of failure. In fact, EVERY fiat currency since the Romans first began the practice in the first century has ended in devaluation and eventual collapse, of not only the currency, but of the economy that housed the fiat currency as well.

Why would it be different here in the U.S.? Well, in actuality, it hasn’t been. "

http://www.dailyreckoning.com/fiat-currency/

It's never worked before, and it's been tried several times in different nations throughout history.

But now is somehow different?

 

[TurdFergeson]

Let's look at money supply vs. dollar value over the past almost 50 years since Bretton Woods:


http://ivo.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/money-supply-vs-dollar.jpg

It's failing. Look at what is happening.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

Hmmm...maybe the people who print the money, which is intrisically worthless?

Then you won't mind giving me all of yours. I'll PM you my address.

If you can spend it or invest it, it's worth something. Gold has no more "intrinsic" value than paper, not until you make it into jewelry or dental work. The "intrinsic" value of all money is what people agree it's worth.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild

https://os8thsoth.wikispaces.com/file/view/jackson_bank.jpg

Andrew Jackson was right.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild

*sigh* Crackpot hard-currency theories and suspicion of the "international bankers" are not inherently linked to antisemitism, but somehow there always seems to be a lot of overlap . . .

 

[KingOrfeo]

https://os8thsoth.wikispaces.com/file/view/jackson_bank.jpg

Andrew Jackson was right.

Historians agree Andrew Jackson was the most intellectually incompetent president America ever had (before Reagan). His veto of the Second Bank of the United States set America's economic development back decades.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[TurdFergeson]

Then you won't mind giving me all of yours. I'll PM you my address.

If you can spend it or invest it, it's worth something. Gold has no more "intrinsic" value than paper, not until you make it into jewelry or dental work. The "intrinsic" value of all money is what people agree it's worth.

And it's being universally agreed upon that it is worth less and less.

Devaluation of currency is the final phase of every fiat system in history. But you think this time around will somehow be different, even though massive devaluation has happened and is continuing?

The Euro is backed with gold...look at what it's doing to our dollar:

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/currency/2002_07DollarEuroGraphic600pxw.jpg

"When the Euro was created in January of 1999, it represented the culmination of years of planning. Further, it was backed by 15% gold – backing in the sense that the gold set aside as backing wouldn't be available for trading Euro's for gold. Rather, the gold would be held in reserve (not sold) and would be marked to the market value of free-trading gold on a quarterly basis."

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_00/hickel021400.html

OK...it's not tecnically "backed" by gold, but even this type of gold support has allowed it to trash our dollar.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Don't be a knee jerk dunce, there is tremendous power in the ability to inflate the currency.

A power generally used by government only as a last resort. Inflating the currency is good for debtors, bad for creditors. The people with the power are generally creditors. The whole point of Bryan's Free Silver movement was to inflate the currency -- good (at least in the short run) for farmers, bad for bankers. Rothschild was a banker.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Historians agree Andrew Jackson was the most intellectually incompetent president America ever had (before Reagan). His veto of the Second Bank of the United States set America's economic development back decades.

Baloney...the Whigs that formed to counter Jackson's dissolving the 2nd Bank never could catch on..they were just a copy of the earlier Federalists.

"In today's discourse in American politics, the Whig Party is usually mentioned in the context of a political party losing its followers and reason for being, often exemplified by the phrase "going the way of the Whigs."

 

[KingOrfeo]

And it's being universally agreed upon that it is worth less and less.

Which is preferable to the far more likely alternative.

 

[unregistered]

 

[TurdFergeson]

Also, Jackson comes in always in the top 10 Presidents according to aggregates of several polls:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents

KO...usually you seem to be fairly accurate in your statements, but this one about Jackson was way off the mark.

MOST historians seem to think VERY highly of Jackson's Presidncy, minus one sore spot: The Indian Removal Act.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Baloney...the Whigs that formed to counter Jackson's dissolving the 2nd Bank never could catch on..they were just a copy of the earlier Federalists.

"In today's discourse in American politics, the Whig Party is usually mentioned in the context of a political party losing its followers and reason for being, often exemplified by the phrase "going the way of the Whigs."

The Whigs were a successful party in their day, ultimately breaking up over the issue of slavery, not banking; and the anti-slavery faction formed the most important seed of the Republican Party. Not a bad run. And in hindsight their platform -- protective tariffs and internal improvements -- was just exactly what America needed at the time.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Rankings by Liberals and Conservatives
Rank Liberals (n=190) Conservatives (n=50)
1 Lincoln ..... Lincoln
2 Franklin Roosevelt ..... Washington
3 Washington ...... Franklin Roosevelt
4 Jefferson ...... Jefferson
5 Theodore Roosevelt ...... Theodore Roosevelt
6 Wilson ....... Jackson
7 Jackson ...... Truman
8 Truman ....... Wilson
9 Lyndon Johnson ...... Eisenhower
10 John Adams ........ John Adams

The whig party was formed by the urban elites who opposed Jackson dissolving the 2nd Bank of the US due to massive bank corruption.

The general population supported Jackson, and the vast majority of historians rank Jackson in the top 10 best ever US Presidents.

"Why The United States Bank Was Closed"

President Andrew Jackson
July 10, 1832
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/writings/bank/jackson.htm

 

[TurdFergeson]

Also interesting that the same Whig party who organized originally to oppose Jackson dissolving the Central Bank eventually lost all influence and self-destructed after they wanted to expand slavery. Coincidence?

They liked the corrupt central bank and they liked slavery. Hmmmm...

 

[Ishmael]

*chuckle* This is rich. Turd and the king having a deep conversation about things that have absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Ishmael