The selfish Dominant

[AngelicAssassin]

... I would not call it selfishness. I would call it a self-regard, basically knowing myself and knowing the things I'm not willing to go without ... It's not about me anymore, it's about US ... if it's just about me it's about that empty ... It's honor. It's my word, it's my promise.

And yes, that promise includes the bit about doing stuff just because I'm the damn Top. That's the attractive part that's being signed on for.

Bestows the golden nailgun award with "not in your lifetime humble" thanks.

i'd do the "we're not worthy" thing, but i don't trust you THAT much. Here ... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/363868/god.gif ... consider him the sacrificial smiley.

And thanks again for the poignant insight.

Edited: ... to get rid of the frickin' red X

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello AngelicAssassin,

You really have some of the coolest smilies.

Especially for you.
http://www.smilies.nl/wavey.gif

http://www.smilies.nl/bounce/huepfenicon111.gifhttp://www.smilies.nl/bounce/huepfenicon111.gifhttp://www.smilies.nl/bounce/huepfenicon111.gifhttp://www.smilies.nl/bounce/huepfenicon111.gif

 

[ethereal~minx]

smilies!!!

i agree AngelicAssassin, Your smilies are great!
What else You got there???

alright, just teasing ~
Have a great weekend!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Pure the question you ask is an impossibility. If you are Dominant or sub or switch if engulfes your entire being. Catalina would try of course but she just could not comply which such a command.

It can be compared with the Pope saying, you are a good catholic, homosexuality is an illness and I order you from now on to be cured. You are "straight" ( I wonder who thought up this word anyway) and going to behave heterosexual from now on.

Would I give this order it would prove that I do not have her best interest in my mind, nor mine for that matter. I would say to any submissive who gets an order that is similar to this to step out of the relationship and look for another partner.

To temporarily step outside the behaviour patterns we need to be healhy individuals for the mental health of one of the partners, I consider to be normal and an essential part of the relationship.

I will put it even more clearer, would Catalina now or ever in the future decide that she simply could not be a submissive/slave anymore then I would break the relationship. Even being enormously in love with her, It would be a simple impossibility to live a vanilla life for me, as it is for Catalina. To clarify, she would no longer be the person I fell in love with, as nor would I be who she fell in love with if I wanted to step off the treadmill of our life.

Francisco.

It was put to Me like this, never ask someone to give more than they are able. If you do, there are always consequences.

 

[Netzach]

I was given this wonderful analogy by a fulltime slave I know:

You don't try and make a grilled cheese in a two slot toaster.

You'd be amazed how many overeager twits will try to do exactly that and wonder why they can't keep a slave. There are fundamentals about a person you just don't go trying to modify or else you are in for some sore disappointments.

I often find myself thinking "wow, sounds like he or she has a failure fetish."

 

[Soron]

My main concern is, and always has been the future of the relationship I'm in. I'm certainly guilty of being as selfish as the next Dominant as far as getting my pleasure. So, before we ever get started down the D/s trail I make sure my submissive knows what's going to be required of her. Simply, giving me whatever I want, whenever I want it.

I don't want, nor do I need her to grovel at my feet out of some sense of duty, or because she has a need to brush my ego. I want and need her to serve me because that is what's in her heart. With only one expectation, that I will love her and take care of her because I want to, and need to, not because she sucks my cock like a slut or brings me coffee in the morning. We're all willing to do things to get what we want. Long term, I want her to feel safe and loved under my control. I want a slave who is willing to do my bidding out of love and trust and respect, without the need of humiliation or some other form of discipline that makes no sense to me. But, hey, different strokes for different folks.

Selfish..you bet your ass I am.

 

[catalina_francisco]

One of the biggest challenges IMO is for the parties involved in a BDSM relationship to get what they want. Fear seems to often rule relationships in BDSM, fear of rejection, fear of being seen as too extreme or not extreme enough, fear of holding back or not holding back enough. We make great little rules on what a proper relationship should look like, we talk about communication and asking what the other party wants and changing our own needs and wants according to the wishes of the other party. Compromise is a word you constantly hear. I happen to have a very different view and as has been seen on the board, some of you agree with me. The idea to compromise your needs, to change your desires or try to, leads IMO to disappointment at the least and in a worst case scenario to total disaster.

As a Dominant you need to know what you want, what your needs are, and what you are looking for in a potential partner. Of course it can not be expected that you know this from day one, so I would advise anyone starting out as a Dominant or switch or sub to play the field, see what is out there and learn what you like and dislike. Compromising is in my view a path to be avoided, selfishness and self-knowledge is the way to go. Know your needs and make sure they are fulfilled, make sure that your partner knows your needs and that your partner knows fulfilling your needs will fulfill theirs.

In essence, if we look at the most basic of motivation for entering the lifestyle, it is pure selfishness we have needs and those needs need to be answered. To compromise, to forget about your own needs is to forget why you want to be in the relationship in the first place. Most of us have been in vanilla relationships and have found out that those relationships can not fulfill us. Do not make the same mistake in your BDSM relationships. Be proud of being selfish and let your needs be answered by answering the needs of your partner(s). Of course this is all only my opinion.

Francisco.

 

[Peter2002]

A philosphy to live by

So many of the posts her but especially the last several above seem to be saying much the same thing, but -- as is appropriate -- from unique and individual points of view.

It's not, as has been said, about compromise. It is about obedience.

The wise dom tempers his or her ability to command, to order, to instruct, to demand with a sense of enlightened self interest -- as was suggested many, many posts earlier.

That self interest not compromise, it rooted in a sense of the do-able: what a slave or sub can achieve. And that becomes a starting point for stretching her horizons be they physical, sexual, emtional, or psycological.

As she learns to grow her bond begomes stronger.

 

[Netzach]

I disagree with a complete lack of compromise.

I find myself a very flexible person. Because I want to be. I find this affords me a great deal of power within the relationship, because I am almost always seeking out the things that actually *matter* and I'm not as hung up on what those might be.

Of course there are areas that are more than mere details. I could not handle life with someone who wasn't into painplay, as an example. That's a no-compromise area.

I think Dominants have to do ourselves the same favor as submissives, in a way, and separate hard requirements from soft requirements in our own minds. There are ideas I have, things I like, that I can manage to live without, and there are those I can't/

 

[Ebonyfire]

I think Dominants have to do ourselves the same favor as submissives, in a way, and separate hard requirements from soft requirements in our own minds. There are ideas I have, things I like, that I can manage to live without, and there are those I can't/

It is a matter of style. I do not think the above is necessary. I am in charge, and so I see no reason to demand other than what I deem important. If a sub cannot deal with that, they can move on.

 

[Pure]

Here's what I don't understand, Francisco. 1) Your latest tome mentions uncompromising selfishness, though we know you also believe in treating a slave or sub well-- perhaps, my analogy, as one would treat a thoroughbred race horse. Presumably such treatment is rationalized as in one's long range self interest.

2)However, in other threads, one in particular, you are on record as saying that the dom/me had better adhere to a higher standard of morality--I believe you used the word--in sexual matters because of the high stakes, dangers, etc. You, iirc, rejected the view I proposed that the dom/me needs no more ethical 'backbone' than does any other adult, and needs no more caution than some players with other forms of sexuality.

In particular, you are on record as opposing a third party's involvement in an adulterous situation, iirc, because of psychic injury to the person who's getting cuckolded. This sounds quite altruistic, esp. since you labelled my view [don't worry about the cuckholded stranger; that issue of cheating is for his partner to decide] as amoral, selfish, weak, low, illadvised, etc.

Note: I suppose you may say that morality is appropriate re third parties, whereas selfishness is appropriate with a submissive mate. This is decidely odd, since for most people it's opposite; they're moral with a partner (say, no lying), and more selfish with strangers (to whome one sometimes lies).


3) However you are also on record as commenting on my picture of a 'moral' dom/me, one who considers the partner's needs, as inappropriately vanilla. I.e., not selfish enough, as per 1).

Of course these are tough issues and one can be expected to show some inconsistencies. So this is not a put down. I'm sure not all my postings are consistent.

The humble scribe.

PS, please forgive the lack of quotes to 'prove' the accuracy of my summaries of what you've said. If there is a mistake in a summary I trust you'll correct it without feeling too put out.

 

[Peter2002]

I disagree with a complete lack of compromise.

I find myself a very flexible person. Because I want to be. I find this affords me a great deal of power within the relationship, because I am almost always seeking out the things that actually *matter* and I'm not as hung up on what those might be.

Of course there are areas that are more than mere details. I could not handle life with someone who wasn't into painplay, as an example. That's a no-compromise area.

I think Dominants have to do ourselves the same favor as submissives, in a way, and separate hard requirements from soft requirements in our own minds. There are ideas I have, things I like, that I can manage to live without, and there are those I can't/

In earlier posts I wrote about the importance of knowing your sub and her being able to trust.

Within that context, however, there does come that moment when she has to obey.

But I don't think that is necessarily at odds with what you've written here.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello Pure,

I do not in the least see your words as a put down, I know who is saying it. I am sure you have no ill will. I am not going to go back to a discussion we have already closed, however, to answer a couple of the points you have brought up again. As you might remember I did bring up the point of the selfish dominant in that same threat.

Being selfish, knowing what your needs are and finding a partner that has complementary needs is in my book not amoral nor has anything to do with keeping to certain standards. It is just common sense.

Selfishness is part of the complete set of characteristics a Dominant needs to have to become successful and fulfilled. Of course this is just my view. Honour and honesty are as much part of the dominant skill set as selfishness is. I am concentrating on selfishness to make a point, it is often forgotten that being selfish, taking care of own needs is as important and maybe even more so than any other of the characteristics that make a Dominant.

I do not think I have shown any inconsistencies in my posting, of course words are open to different interpretation from different persons. This is of course to be expected, to some yellow is a colour and to others it means a coward.

Francisco.

 

[Pure]

OK, Francisco, this dom--you, I suppose-- is principled but selfish; or selfish, but in some ways principled.

What's missing in this abstract characterization--which says, a bit of this, a bit of that-- is a description of something real, i.e., activities and relationship characteristics of actual 'cases' that would illustrate your position.

Consider an upright, patriarchal husband of 100 years ago, or at present in some "tradition-bound" countries, honest and upright in dealing with others, who takes his sexual satisfaction on his own terms, without much regard for the woman's sexual state. That's a very common 'selfish but principled' combination through the ages.

J.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello Pure,

I think self knowledge and self analysis is the best way to go here. Everyone should decide for themselves to which point my hypothesis touches them.

To dissect my life will lead to very little, and repeat a journey which I have already taken. This is journey everyone should take for themselves at some point.

Although it is good to reflect BDSM on to history and non BDSM related relationships, I rather concentrate on more direct examples. instead of continously relating to vanilla, GLBT, and obscurely related subjects, of which value to the discussion can be seen by some as limited and cryptic.

Of course again, this is just my point of view, and I realise others may differ as is their right.

Francisco.

 

[catalina_francisco]

bump