The Safety Net at Work

[4est_4est_Gump]

At least 259 times in the first six months of legalized recreational marijuana in Colorado, beneficiaries used their electronic-benefit transfer (EBT) cards to access public assistance at weed retailers and dispensaries, withdrawing a total of $23,608.53 in Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) cash, NRO’s examination found.

In 2012, the latest fiscal year available, Colorado used $124 million in TANF money from the federal government, according to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. Withdrawals at marijuana establishments represented only a tiny fraction of the more than 500,000 total EBT transactions that have occurred since recreational weed became legal in Colorado on January 1. And it’s impossible to determine how much of that welfare money actually was used to buy pot, given that cash benefits are fungible and some of these establishments also sell groceries.

...

Last session, some Colorado legislators attempted to pass a bill banning TANF withdrawals at marijuana establishments, but Democrats blocked it. The state’s Republicans did succeed, however, in passing a budget amendment that would preclude such use. Because of a legislative technicality, however, the amendment “doesn’t have the power and teeth behind it that a statute does,” says Colorado Springs representative Dan Nordberg, one of the key proponents of the ban. Republican lawmakers plan to re-introduce stronger legislation next session.

Jillian Kay Melchior, NRO

 

[RobDownSouth]

Straight cut-and-paste.

He's not even trying anymore, folks.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Magic H8 Ball™ sez:
Sputter! Sputter!
#Derp!Derp!
::nods::

 

[RobDownSouth]

Magic H8 Ball™ sez:
Sputter! Sputter!
#Derp!Derp!
::nods::

Weaksauce.
:nods:

 

[about_average]

Aside from the fact that that's 0.05%, and that likely a lot more is withdrawn from ATM's to use for other things not permitted, I notice the article only says the cards were used to "access public assistance ". It doesn't distinguish between access at the register (where, I'm pretty sure, the amount withdrawn is limited to eligible items) and withdrawals from an ATM.

But even if it was 100% from ATM's, that's what happens when you allow ATM withdrawals.
I'm sure a lot more is lost to bank fees than people buying marijuana (a number of large banks charge $3 for every EBT ATM withdrawal).

IMO, EBT cards should only be allowed to be used at the register.

The upshot is, this has nothing to do with drugs. Just another item on the list of things not permitted. Where's the outrage over EBT use at places that sell hot foods?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It is an insignificant level of fraud...



... what are you gonna do? There's always going to be waste in a government program.

 

[about_average]

... what are you gonna do? There's always going to be waste in a government program.

As well as nearly any private enterprise.

Why bitch about a miniscule scenario? Why not address the much larger issue of EBT cards being able to be used at an ATM?
Because there are still people who cannot accept that marijuana is legal (as it should be) and look for any opportunity to point and say, "I told you so!".

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

As well as nearly any private enterprise.

Why bitch about a miniscule scenario? Why not address the much larger issue of EBT cards being able to be used at an ATM?
Because there are still people who cannot accept that marijuana is legal (as it should be) and look for any opportunity to point and say, "I told you so!".

Well, I thought that honestly, with your level of outrage, that you had already devoted a thread or two to the topic...



... but I find it interesting how your mind works. Belittle my "outrage" before correcting me and introducing me to a more PC outrage.

 

[about_average]

Well, I thought that honestly, with your level of outrage, that you had already devoted a thread or two to the topic, but I find it interesting how your mind works. Belittle my "outrage" before correcting me and introducing me to a more PC outrage.

What "level of outrage" would that be?
Just because I think something is wrong, doesn't mean that the only way to validate it is to start several threads.
I've mentioned before that ATM use is wrong, people don't care. Should I keep harping on it?
But that doesn't mean I won't point out when some agenda is bitching about some selective abuse of the system, assuming the OP actually is even abuse. They have no way of knowing, other than guilt by association. They don't even know if the EBT user was buying pot. They could just have easily have been there with a friend who was.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

about_average
This message is hidden because about_average is on your ignore list.

Sorry, you decided that you would rather have fun with Throb than to have a conversation with 'normal' people.

Enjoy. Mazel tov...

 

[about_average]

about_average
This message is hidden because about_average is on your ignore list.

Sorry, you decided that you would rather have fun with Throb than to have a conversation with 'normal' people.

Enjoy. Mazel tov...

Seems like someone supposedly as clever as you would just use greasemonkey.

"Normal" people don't move the goalposts every time the fallacy of their arguments are pointed out to them.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Throb needs friends.



Hope you have kids...

 

[Que]

This is nothing new or related to legalization.

Any drug dealer will tell you that the beginning of the month is when their customers have cash. The money spent on drugs for the last 40 years has in part, indirectly or now directly, come from the four trillion dollars we have spent on The Great Society.

 

[CandiCame]

I don't understand the OP. It made it very clear that they weren't buying weed because you can't with TANF, BUT then said that they were withdrawing at bodegas. Does that mean that they were withdrawing at the register or that there was an ATM in the building or what? It's confusing, the way that it's written. But you would have to either be desperate or a dumbass to get your TANF money off an ATM, those things beat the shit out of you with fees. So, assuming that they're getting it from the register... so? How is that fraud?

 

[about_average]

I don't understand the OP. It made it very clear that they weren't buying weed because you can't with TANF, BUT then said that they were withdrawing at bodegas. Does that mean that they were withdrawing at the register or that there was an ATM in the building or what? It's confusing, the way that it's written. But you would have to either be desperate or a dumbass to get your TANF money off an ATM, those things beat the shit out of you with fees. So, assuming that they're getting it from the register... so? How is that fraud?

The article just said the EBT cards were used at places that sell pot, but didn't specify at the register or at an ATM. But many of those places also sell food so it's entirely plausible that the people:
1. Bought pot and food, used the EBT at the register for the food portion and cash for the pot portion
2. Went to the store with a friend who was buying pot and decided to buy some food while there
3. Went to the store and bought food and paid with an EBT at the register
4. Got cash from an ATM and bought food
5. Got cash from an ATM and bought pot
6. Got cash from an ATM and bought pot and food
There's no way to know which it was based on the available information. I doubt there's any way to know, period.

 

[CandiCame]

This is nothing new or related to legalization.

Any drug dealer will tell you that the beginning of the month is when their customers have cash. The money spent on drugs for the last 40 years has in part, indirectly or now directly, come from the four trillion dollars we have spent on The Great Society.

Your big booms are

1: All of September
2: the 1st and the 15th
3: Thursdays for some reason
4: Holidays

It follows exactly the same path as a restaurant so its actually good buisness sense to run it like you're running a restaurant. With staggering customers and everything, because on a busy Thursday night you're gonna have an assload of customers and they're ALL gonna want to smoke with you, and some of them (IE Professors) want to not be seen by some of them (IE Students) so you have to think about that shit. Most of your real money comes in from the professionals who buy steady, every Thursday, and not the poser party kids who are probably just gonna buy for a party and then not be seen nor heard from again, so you prioritize your returning clients, again, normally college professors and white collar folk who have money coming in and can spend $200-$400 a month on weed.

I was super good friends with my best dealer ever until he passed away recently, but I never really sold. I did hang out with him while he sold a lot. And an assload of other dealers, and you have to treat this shit like a business because it is, and because if you fuck up and someone shoplifts from you, you can't go to the cops.

Not sure what that has to do with EBT fraud since they can refill anywhere from the 1st to the 10th based on your Social Security Number. The vast majority of your weed money comes from white collar folks; poor folk can't buy ounces at a time and you'll sell to them, but you don't have a folder for them- which is not actually a folder but I've NEVER met a drug dealer who didn't call it that. It's just a bag or a box or something. I guess folder sounds more business-y?

 

[CandiCame]

The article just said the EBT cards were used at places that sell pot, but didn't specify at the register or at an ATM. But many of those places also sell food so it's entirely plausible that the people:
1. Bought pot and food, used the EBT at the register for the food portion and cash for the pot portion
2. Went to the store with a friend who was buying pot and decided to buy some food while there
3. Went to the store and bought food and paid with an EBT at the register
4. Got cash from an ATM and bought food
5. Got cash from an ATM and bought pot
6. Got cash from an ATM and bought pot and food
There's no way to know which it was based on the available information. I doubt there's any way to know, period.

How is that fraud and why do we care? Is more what I was asking.

 

[about_average]

How is that fraud and why do we care? Is more what I was asking.

Well, using EBT money for recreational pot would be fraud. Just like using EBT money to buy a hot meal.

 

[CandiCame]

Well, using EBT money for recreational pot would be fraud. Just like using EBT money to buy a hot meal.

TANF and EBT are two different things, they just both come on the same card. You can't withdraw EBT as cash. you have to buy food with it. TANF is extra money to help you get through the month, normally because you have a foster child or because you have a child that you're trying to adopt through TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families). It's the government paying you for deciding to take care of that child. They don't regulate, as far as I know, how you spend that money because it's essentially a paycheck. But you can lose it if you're, say, not clothing the kid so that you can buy drugs, but that's for the social worker to decide. If you have all the kid's needs met and then you want to spend that cash on a pack of smokes, there's not a law saying that you can't. The OP says that they tried to pass a law like that and it was immediately shot down.

Edit: TANF Also, if it's a family member it's called Kinship instead of TANF but it's the same thing.

 

[CandiCame]

That lack of regulation, btw. Fucking horrible. There are tons of kids in foster care who aren't being taken care of because their foster "parents" take that money and buy stupid shit, so the social worker takes them out of the home, puts them in a different home, and the cycle repeats until you turn 18. It's fucked up. But it's not fraud. And I, personally don't give a shit if they're buying weed or four wheelers, that's not what we need to be focusing on. They took that money as payment to TAKE CARE OF THE KID. So they need to take care of the fucking kid. Ethically.

 

[about_average]

Ok, I wasn't sure what all went on the cards. Last time I dealt with anyone receiving it was in the 80's and it was still those tear out coupon books.
If you can by cigs, then there's no difference buying pot, except nicotine is more addictive than crack.

 

[CandiCame]

I've said for years that that shit needs to be regulated, but not the way that law wants t do it. Saying WHERE you can withdraw money is just annoying. But if you make it similar to the Canadian system that would be awesome. You can only buy certain things like bill-pays, shampoo, kids clothes, etc. But that kind of regulation has been shot down several times because they would have to change all the bar codes for literally EVERYTHING, like they did with food with EBT first went digital, and that's apparently really expensive and annoying? But that's what you would have to do, not just, "You can't scan the card at this location" because... that's fucking stupid? Which is probably why it was shot down. Go big or go home. Either regulate or don't. Don't force people to walk down to the gas station down the street and then come back. Because that does nothing.

But again, you're just a bad person, you're not committing fraud. You would have been, had that law passed, but it didn't so... yeah. Not fraud.

 

[about_average]

I'm not sure you'd have to change all the bar codes, unless I'm missing something.
Most, if not all, POS systems require the retailer to enter the items in to the system. At that time they could add a code indicating if it was a permitted item or not. It wouldn't be 100% accurate, but would be better than it is now I guess.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

This is nothing new or related to legalization.

Any drug dealer will tell you that the beginning of the month is when their customers have cash. The money spent on drugs for the last 40 years has in part, indirectly or now directly, come from the four trillion dollars we have spent on The Great Society.

Strip clubs too...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I've said for years that that shit needs to be regulated, but not the way that law wants t do it. Saying WHERE you can withdraw money is just annoying. But if you make it similar to the Canadian system that would be awesome. You can only buy certain things like bill-pays, shampoo, kids clothes, etc. But that kind of regulation has been shot down several times because they would have to change all the bar codes for literally EVERYTHING, like they did with food with EBT first went digital, and that's apparently really expensive and annoying? But that's what you would have to do, not just, "You can't scan the card at this location" because... that's fucking stupid? Which is probably why it was shot down. Go big or go home. Either regulate or don't. Don't force people to walk down to the gas station down the street and then come back. Because that does nothing.

But again, you're just a bad person, you're not committing fraud. You would have been, had that law passed, but it didn't so... yeah. Not fraud.

Go back to stamps and make it illegal to give any change back at the POS.

They say they went to the EBT card to save money, which they never do, but it was really just to make the monies given to potential voters more fungible and useful.