The rhetoric of the minimum wage

[WriterDom]

If you want to lie the failure of ethanol on anyone's doorstep talk to the Iowa corn caucus. Brazil seems to be getting along just fine using ethanol made from sugar cane rather than the complex sugars found in corn ( the processing costs for corn is many times higher). In fact, Brazil expects to be fully independent of foreign oil imports this year.


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The Brazilan model might work in California. Since California has a larger economy than Brazil. But if you think ethanol is the answer to the US problem, then you need to put the bong down for a while.

 

[Drinking Cap]

What's interesting is that despite Ishmael's interest in promoting this issue as a left vs. right issue with those on the right opposing minimum wage increases and those on the left supporting them, ballot initiatives in 6 states(all of them being "red" states) raised minimum wages.

One of the most interesting defenses of raising the minimum wage I ever read came from Gregg Easterbrook, a conservative. What it boiled down to, in large part, was that if you believe in the minimum wage at all as an instrument of social justice then it's somewhat indefensible to oppose it rising at a pace that, at the very least, is linked to some sort of cost of living indicator. Several states already link the minimum wage to the CPI.

 

[Explaura]

What's interesting is that despite Ishmael's interest in promoting this issue as a left vs. right issue with those on the right opposing minimum wage increases and those on the left supporting them, ballot initiatives in 6 states(all of them being "red" states) raised minimum wages.

One of the most interesting defenses of raising the minimum wage I ever read came from Gregg Easterbrook, a conservative. What it boiled down to, in large part, was that if you believe in the minimum wage at all as an instrument of social justice then it's somewhat indefensible to oppose it rising at a pace that, at the very least, is linked to some sort of cost of living indicator. Several states already link the minimum wage to the CPI.

Not raising nominal minimum wages is the same as lowering real minimum wages.

Is that the issue?

I think if you don't raise minimum wages with the change in cost of living there is not much point in having one in the first place. If you have decided the wages you have determined are the minimum that people should have to live with, letting them alone and not adjusting them to inflation is hypocritical.

But knowing what is a good minimum is harder..

 

[unregistered]

 

[DavidJericho]

Brazil is an environmental disaster. But I guess if we want to use sugar cane we should just cut down the rest of the rain forest to grow it, and pollute the air to harvest and produce the ethanol.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

We should raise it to $20.00 per hour today in order to accelerate and illuminate for the terminally obtuse the long overdue lesson of what happens when government decides that economic freedom is evil everyone's labor is worth the same.

As usual, you go way over the top and right into ignorance.

 

[DavidJericho]

As usual, you go way over the top and right into ignorance.

So what, in your opinion, is a "living wage?"

 

[unregistered]

 

[Lancecastor]

So what, in your opinion, is a "living wage?"

The way I like to live takes about $200,000.00 per year, as I try not to be wasteful.

 

[ma_guy]

Not raising nominal minimum wages is the same as lowering real minimum wages.

Is that the issue?

I think if you don't raise minimum wages with the change in cost of living there is not much point in having one in the first place. If you have decided the wages you have determined are the minimum that people should have to live with, letting them alone and not adjusting them to inflation is hypocritical.

But knowing what is a good minimum is harder..

The problem, IMO, with this sort of thing is that, for example, if you link the minum wage to something like the CPI you create a closed loop. Any increase in the minimum wage raises the CPI which would trigger an increase in the minumum wage and you just continue in that loop.

IMO, we should be focusing on getting people to progress out of minumum wage jobs and into something better more than trying to keep them happy in the lowest wage jobs.

 

[kbate]

To solve the economic imbalance, all congress needs do is set a progressive income tax for 5 years.

$0 to poverty level - Zero tax.
Poverty level +1 to $50,000 - $10% of amount over poverty.
50001 to 100000 - 20% of amount over 50k.
100001 to 500,000 - 30% of amount over 100k.
500,001+ - 90% of amount over 500,000.

This will give the government approximately 6 trillion in new tax revenue, eliminate the deficit within 3 years fix social security at the same time and exempt the poorest from all taxation.

Let the evil rich who bankrupted the government with overpriced contracts over the last 40 years pay it back with punitive taxes. A person making 6 million will still keep 917000 after taxes, plenty to live on and still 30 times what a person making poverty level makes.

See - it's so simple.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

So what, in your opinion, is a "living wage?"

A person working forty hours a week, with no additional income, should be able to afford housing, food, utilities, transport, health care and a certain amount of recreation for themselves and their dependents.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

You are the epitome of ignorance UD.

C'mon, call me a commie. You know you want to moron.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Actually it was never intended to be a living wage, it was intended to be an entry level wage that would allow younger workers with few skills to gain on the job training and the motivation to move up the wage scale. Socialists and other misguided idealists have decided it has to be a "living wage" for a family of four.

In the meantime, they are expected to live in the gutter, or mom and dads house.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Why? They may need to have three of those jobs to accomplish that. People who have children when they don't have the capacity to feed and care for them need to go to jail instead of expecting society to pick up the tab for their irresponsibility.

We will institute the 120 hour work week immediately.

Your too stupid to be a commie.

I think that statement speaks for itself.

'Your' proving yours with every post. So you expect 120 hours per week at minimum wage to be able to afford basics.

You wonder why the conservatives are on the outs dip shit, go look in the mirror.

 

[unregistered]

 

[kbate]

$7.25 isn't enough - they should get $25.00 just to make them competitive with skilled labour in the shopping malls. It is unfair to expect a minimum wage worker to do without a widescreen plasma HD television - they deserve shopping equality.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

$7.25 isn't enough - they should get $25.00 just to make them competitive with skilled labour in the shopping malls. It is unfair to expect a minimum wage worker to do without a widescreen plasma HD television - they deserve shopping equality.

I see Vetteman dragged you right over the top too..

 

[Explaura]

The problem, IMO, with this sort of thing is that, for example, if you link the minum wage to something like the CPI you create a closed loop. Any increase in the minimum wage raises the CPI which would trigger an increase in the minumum wage and you just continue in that loop.

IMO, we should be focusing on getting people to progress out of minumum wage jobs and into something better more than trying to keep them happy in the lowest wage jobs.

Nah.. I don't think so. Because a lot of things affect the CPI more than a minimum wage change would. It is my opinion that changing the minimum wage wouldn't actually make as much of a difference as people think because of price elasticity..

In any case there is always a trend towards inflation with a growth economy and that is a reasonable and even a good thing!

 

[DavidJericho]

A person working forty hours a week, with no additional income, should be able to afford housing, food, utilities, transport, health care and a certain amount of recreation for themselves and their dependents.

How much is that? $10 per hour? The issue, as I see it, is not about the existance of a minimum wage, but where the wage should be set. You can say that vetteman was over the top suggesting the amount he did, just as he can say anything above $5 per hour is over the top. No one will ever agree on how much the government should mandate that an empoyer should pay for a particular worker.

 

[DavidJericho]

Actually it was never intended to be a living wage, it was intended to be an entry level wage that would allow younger workers with few skills to gain on the job training and the motivation to move up the wage scale. Socialists and other misguided idealists have decided it has to be a "living wage" for a family of four.

No, it was intended to prevent exploitation of labor, just like the child labor laws were intended to prevent exploitation of children.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

How much is that? $10 per hour? The issue, as I see it, is not about the existance of a minimum wage, but where the wage should be set. You can say that vetteman was over the top suggesting the amount he did, just as he can anything about $5 per hour is over the top. No one will ever agree on how much the government should mandate that an empoyer should pay for a particular worker.

Oh but the issue IS about the existance of the minimum wage. Some here, Ishmael for one, advocate abolishing it entirely. I'd lay odds that Vetteman would too.

I mean hell, those dumb ass burger flippers should have to work 120 hours a week to afford basic necessities, so long as he's not one of those burger flippers why should he care? He might have to pay a 2 cents more for his Whopper if they raise the wages they pay those workers by $1.00 an hour.