The rhetoric of the minimum wage

[Ishmael]

Yes...we call these people "Fortune 500 CEOs," who like to prance around acting like they hit a home run when most were born on third base.

Stuck in the intellectual ditch I see.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

Only to the benighted laboring under a post 1980 education.

*chuckle*

Ishmael

 

[OrcishBarbarian]

I've already acknowledged the technological changes. Is that the best you can do?

More than technological changes...philosophical changes. We do things differently now than we did them two and a quarter centuries ago.

As an incentive to increase shareholders value/earnings, CEO's are allowed to participate with stock options. The calue of those options are tied to the CEO's performance. You can call it a commision if you want. But it's NOT money. And it's NOT taxable until they divest. And those options are but a VERY small fractions of a percentage of the stock in circulation. Stock owned by individuals, Teachers Unions, Firefighter Unions, retirement funds both public and private. All of whom which benefited from the labors of this man/woman that certain individuals want to vilify.

When you see a CEO getting a big bonus you should be researching the stock to see how wise an investment it is, not bitching about the guy that made it possible for millions to share the wealth.

Ishmael

Okay...so they get nice artsy pieces of paper that are redeemable for cash rather than cash. The corporate elite are still paid a mint, no matter how you slice or dice it.

And that's okay...because of course life as we know it would come to a screeching halt and we'd all die if the rich weren't allowed to be super-rich. After all, Sweden is a starving Third World country now. But I'm not saying tax the hell out of the rich. I'm just saying let the WORKING poor make a little more money.

Why is that so offensive to you?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

We didn't get social retirement because capitalism was not working. We got it because FDR was a Marxist socialist who kept the depression running strong by keeping taxes at levels that drove investment capital into cash and hiding places rather than into the market where it could create jobs.

Wrong. People were afraid of banks, and that's why investment capital went under their beds. Banks were closing at a rate of hundreds per day until liberals enacted banking regulations. Your economy won't do shit when the banks can't remain solvent.

He preferred the concentration camp labour of the CCCs and the soup kitchens of the cities to allowing the market to recover. Without Hitler and Tojo to stir up a war, America would have gone the way of the Soviet Union - poverty for all but FDR's select.

And this ignorance, ladies and gentlemen, is why America always falters under Conservatism and prospers under liberalism.

The market collapsed because of laissez-faire.

See: the banks closing.

 

[kbate]

I'd still go with the person who actually earned the money they are in control of as being "smarter". Being given access to large sums of money is not the same as earning it.

Gates didn't earn it any more than she did. The Gates Foundation is a charity taking donations from around the world and the recipient of much of Warren Buffet's fortune. Other people earned the money in this foundation - just like other people earned the money Pelosi controls.

 

[marshalt]

Why give the unskilled douches raises? Why not give semi-unskilled douches a raise?

 

[Ishmael]

More than technological changes...philosophical changes. We do things differently now than we did them two and a quarter centuries ago.



Okay...so they get nice artsy pieces of paper that are redeemable for cash rather than cash. The corporate elite are still paid a mint, no matter how you slice or dice it.

And that's okay...because of course life as we know it would come to a screeching halt and we'd all die if the rich weren't allowed to be super-rich. After all, Sweden is a starving Third World country now. But I'm not saying tax the hell out of the rich. I'm just saying let the WORKING poor make a little more money.

Why is that so offensive to you?

Sweden? *chuckle*

What was the percentage increase in Swedish CEO compensation vs US CEO compensation from 1988 to 2003?

Ishmael

 

[Ham Murabi]

Arizona and Nevada are wrestling with similar minimum wage laws approved by the voters.
Going from memory:
Nevada has decided the law does not include piece work performed by the disabled, hence they will be able to keep their jobs.
Arizona has decided the law applies to everyone because the wording of the measure approved by the voters provides no wiggle room. Some of the disabled will lose their jobs.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

More than technological changes...philosophical changes. We do things differently now than we did them two and a quarter centuries ago.



Okay...so they get nice artsy pieces of paper that are redeemable for cash rather than cash. The corporate elite are still paid a mint, no matter how you slice or dice it.

And that's okay...because of course life as we know it would come to a screeching halt and we'd all die if the rich weren't allowed to be super-rich. After all, Sweden is a starving Third World country now. But I'm not saying tax the hell out of the rich. I'm just saying let the WORKING poor make a little more money.

Why is that so offensive to you?

You will never get Ishmael to give a straight answer to this question, notice the dodge in his post relpying to it. He won't answer the question, merely *chuckle* and pose another question to you. THEN, then when you try to guide him back to your original question YOU are changing the subject.

It is offensive to him because in his opinion anyone that is 'poor' is that way of their own volition. They are stupid, lazy, and worthless. All social programs should be stopped immediately and those who are too stupid, lazy, and worthless to support themselves should gather at their local churches and stand in line for daily handouts provided by the kindness of strangers.

His attitudes are the reason why the right wing morons are losing their asses now in the court of public opinion.

 

[Wok]

You will never get Ishmael to give a straight answer to this question, notice the dodge in his post relpying to it. He won't answer the question, merely *chuckle* and pose another question to you. THEN, then when you try to guide him back to your original question YOU are changing the subject.

It is offensive to him because in his opinion anyone that is 'poor' is that way of their own volition. They are stupid, lazy, and worthless. All social programs should be stopped immediately and those who are too stupid, lazy, and worthless to support themselves should gather at their local churches and stand in line for daily handouts provided by the kindness of strangers.

I am no economist, but heard somewhere a long time ago raising the minimum wage increases inflation. Is there any validity to this?

Edit: Never mind. I found a resource to help me understand.

 

[ksmybuttons]

There is a fundamental and inevitable conflict between the interests of corporations, to whom wages are a cost, and most human beings, to whom wages are a means of survival.

Now, if one works for a company like Wal-Mart, one can qualify for the earned income credit on taxes and get state subsidized health care and child care. Now who's paying?

Who are the richest family in America?

Who is subsidizing whom?

 

[Ishmael]

There is a fundamental and inevitable conflict between the interests of corporations, to whom wages are a cost, and most human beings, to whom wages are a means of survival.

Now, if one works for a company like Wal-Mart, one can qualify for the earned income credit on taxes and get state subsidized health care and child care. Now who's paying?

Who are the richest family in America?

Who is subsidizing whom?

Apparetntly you didn't read the link I provided from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Missourah passed a minimum wage law with so many provisions that I don't see anyone affected, but, hey, the Republicans did what politicians do, pass feel good legislation that at best assists an extreme minority and at worst can cause wage inflation...

And they kept their majorities in the House and Senate, which is good because the state economy is going gang-busters.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

One thing I have heard mentioned today is that many on the low end have been getting wage increases all along because of the increasing cost of benefit packages to the employer...

They just never see it.

Neal Boortz said today Bush has legislation on his desk to give illegals social security benefits on work here after 18 months plus their work in Mexico. Of course, Mexico doesn't have to reciprocate...

 

[Ishmael]

Simply put the Minimum Wage Law says:

If you are unable to produce goods and services for a prospective employer at the arbitrary level established by this Minimum Wage Law (insert present wage level here) it is unlawful for you to work in the United States of America.

There's a ton of people that would argue that point. They'll tell you the law effects the employer only. They don't understand the economic reality behind the bill(s).

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Doesn't Walmart get any props for leading the way on subsidizing the costs of medicines for the elderly?

 

[Ishmael]

Doesn't Walmart get any props for leading the way on subsidizing the costs of medicines for the elderly?

What do you think the book on that is?

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

I have no idea...

It seem right popular to bash Walmart, CEO's, etc., but one never hears criticism of those who use currency manipulation to destroy entire economies for their benefit. He's a hero because he funded the war against Bush.

 

[Ishmael]

I have no idea...

It seem right popular to bash Walmart, CEO's, etc., but one never hears criticism of those who use currency manipulation to destroy entire economies for their benefit. He's a hero because he funded the war against Bush.

Gulags are OK for the Politically Incorrect too.

Ishmael

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ishmael]

Difference is, I remember when a guy could have his windows cleaned and his oil checked while he was getting a tank of gas.

Among many other jobs that are no longer done.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

And his dad was semi-retired, handling the orders and running the cash register enjoying the fruits of his labor, and then the Left decided the State should receive the fruits of his labor to level the playing field.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I have no idea...

It seem right popular to bash Walmart, CEO's, etc., but one never hears criticism of those who use currency manipulation to destroy entire economies for their benefit. He's a hero because he funded the war against Bush.

You hear plenty of criticism of that by me. That's part of why I oppose free trade with China.

 

[Ishmael]

And his dad was semi-retired, handling the orders and running the cash register enjoying the fruits of his labor, and then the Left decided the State should receive the fruits of his labor to level the playing field.

Said it before, I'll say it again. It's a tax hike masquerading as 'helping the little guy.' The government is just pumping their payroll tax reciepts in flow. No one thinks about that though. Nor do they consider that the true cost of an employee to the employer is approx. 130% wage. If you are making $10/hr. the cost of your labor to the employer is $13/hr. When an employer makes a decision concerning the retention of, or increasing of, the labor force that decision is based on real cost, not the employees wage.

Walmart has already announced they're going to 'flex' time with their employees. Which is probably going to translate into less $$$ to take home even with the increase in the minimum wage. It will also tranlate into more part-timers who won't be covered under the benefit programs or the various state labor laws.

Ishmael