The Prophet Muhammad Was A Demon-possessed Pedophile, Says Church Leader

[KinkyKat]

The prophet Muhammad was a
"demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a
9-year-old girl", according to Southern Baptist pastor Rev. Jerry Vines.

Do you agree? Do you believe these comments were untimely, if not unwise? Do you have another point of view?

Read the entire story at: http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stories/061302dnmetsbcmuslims.d5f78.html

 

[Moi]

If there's one topic I'd trust a clergyman's opinion on, it's pedophilia...

 

[bluespoke]

If there's one topic I'd trust a clergyman's opinion on, it's pedophilia...

Especially if the church said he was innocent!

 

[KinkyKat]

A friend of mine thinks it's a carefully conceived plot to take the heat off of the Catholic Bishops meeting here in Dallas this week. LOL

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Do you agree?

With is statement? I don't know the facts - I don't think he does either. While Muhammed may have thought he was demon posessed, that didn't actually make him demon posessed even if you believe in such things. If Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old girl, he possibly was a pedophile (even that does not make a person a pedophile, but it certainly would be a strong indicator) - while if he had an arranged marriage with a 9 year old girl and then waited until she hit puberty to have sex with her, then that is/was the way things were/are done in some cultures.

For all we know Adam and Eve were pedophiles - there is no mention of their ages in the Bible.

Do you believe these comments were untimely, if not unwise?

Clearly they were both, and just as clearly they were meant to incense, but mostly they were meant to garner attention to someone who says hurtful, possibly untrue things just for personal gain. This was clearly not a Christian action.

 

[JazzManJim]

A friend of mine thinks it's a carefully conceived plot to take the heat off of the Catholic Bishops meeting here in Dallas this week. LOL

YOu can tell him that's bunk.

If there's one thing the Southern Baptists are agreed on it's not taking the heat off of the Catholic Church.

But as for the factual part of his comment, Mohammed was married to a nine-year old. He consummated that marriage while she was the same age. That's a historical thing and the supporting evidence isn't terribly hard to find. She was one of his several wives (polygamy being a fairly acceptable practice in several parts of the world at the time).

As for the demon-possessed part, well who can really say? I don't think that Mohammed historically showed any signs of demon possession, nor did it appear to be a concern either of his followers or contemporary Christians. So I pretty much discount that.

As for the Pastor's comments, I think they're pretty misguided. I've been there when some pastors have made some pretty outrageous statements in the heat of a sermon and they've later had to apologize for them from the pulpit. It wouldn't surprise me if this man had to back off the "demon possessed" part of that at some point very soon.

The most telling part of his statement that's getting less press because of the Mohammed statements was that Islam, as a religion, not only fosters terrorism but encourages it. I can't actually dispute that statement, though I'd prefer it not be true. Unfortunately, the evidence is strong that Fundamental Islam is not only a common thread running through virtually every terrorist action int he last ten years or so, but also is at the forefront of the majority of repressive and brutal governmental regimes. I do wish that weren't true, but everything I've seen indicates it to be so.

Of course there are going to be inevitable comparisons with Christianity. There are differences and perhaps there's a good thread topic there (and I won't address the differences here. They're fairly obvious, to my thinking.). The chief one is that Christianty as a "murder motive" has been used by a governmental leader (as in the instance of the Crusades, for isntance) and rarely preached directly from the pulpit. Fundamental Islam (and there's a disctinction between the Fundamental sect and the mainstream sect) advocates violence directly from the mullahs as well as governmental leaders. That's an important distinction to me.

 

[SINthysist]

The demanded apologies and the ones willing to do it for someone exercising free speech smacks of holier-than-thouism...

This is thick irony indeed against the background of open Western Christian/Judio hatred expressed in the civil, temperate, enlightened Muslim world. It seems to me the Dallas paper wishes as badly as our enemies to take down faith in America.

 

[KinkyKat]

This is thick irony indeed against the background of open Western Christian/Judio hatred expressed in the civil, temperate, enlightened Muslim world.

Couldn't agree more with you on that statement.

While I might characterize the pastor's remarks as "unfortunate" considering attempts to distinguish garden variety Muslims from the hardcore militant types, it pales in comparison to the hatred spewed daily from much of the Arab world against Christians, Jews, and other so-called "infidels".

 

[SINthysist]

If right-wing Christian fanatics decided to start bombing muslims, abortion clinics, Jews, whatever, we would shut them down in a heartbeat because that's what civilized countries do. Furthermore we would raise vast quantities of money for the families of the victims of the bombings and very publicly denounce those responsible.

Uncivilized countries throw street parties, exhort themselves to greater deeds, and have fund-raisers for the families OF the bombers...

 

[miles]

If right-wing Christian fanatics decided to start bombing muslims, abortion clinics, Jews, whatever, we would shut them down in a heartbeat because that's what civilized countries do.

Personally, I'm more concerned with left-wing fanatics. They get more sympathy.

 

[SINthysist]

Of course they're allowed to do whatever...

They perform all the "trendy" anarchist acts.

 

[sexyguy2]

It's too bad the media focused on this issue(which cannot be proved or disproved) instead of the more violent aspects of fundamentalist Islam.

 

[crystalhunting]

Couldn't agree more with you on that statement.

While I might characterize the pastor's remarks as "unfortunate" considering attempts to distinguish garden variety Muslims from the hardcore militant types, it pales in comparison to the hatred spewed daily from much of the Arab world against Christians, Jews, and other so-called "infidels".

Do you even know the word for infidel? It's "Kafir"..and as for the hatred spewed out at Christians and Hebrews...you know..not all Arabs are Muslims,Some are Christian,ever been to Lebanon? Some are Baha'as,and some Hebrews families have lived in the arab world for many generations,and therefore are Hebrew Arabs.


So now..in addition to being of a belief system that encourages violence against all who believe otherwise...I am also party to child molesters

At the rate it's going,I exspect that eventually all Muslims of American desent,or of recent immigration will be expelled,deported etc.




CH

 

[Laurel]

Yeah, I've always felt the best way to promote religious tolerant is to be hatefully intolerant of other religions. Accusing entire faiths of being moral criminals is sure a kind & Christian thing to do.

 

[SINthysist]

Yes, it takes a very generous caring person to side with thier enemies and point fingers at thier friends...

 

[SINthysist]

We have one remark from one preacher vs.

http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55321,00.html

You apologists for a group of people who have made Mein Kampf a number one best seller in thier part of the world are myoptic at best.

 

[phrodeau]

Originally posted by crystalhunting (edited)

So now..in addition to being of a belief system that encourages violence against all who believe otherwise...I am also party to child molesters

CH

Not to worry. Christians support the belief in human sacrifice and practice symbolic cannibalism.

 

[Ishmael]

The 'good' pastor makes the mistake of judging the past by todays more's.

He is trying to 'lead' his flock in a direction I don't think we need to go. We've identified an enemy, and that enemy is not an entire religion. It is a radical sub-sect of a religion. Just as Christians have radical sub-sects. As do those that practice the Jewish religion, or Hindu, or whatever.

I think the saddest part of this is that the press actually thought this was news worthy and gave the man his 15 minutes.

Ishmael

 

[SINthysist]

Ditto

 

[SINthysist]

Why Islam Attracts Criminals
NewsMax.com Wires
Saturday, June 15, 2002
WASHINGTON – What exactly is it that makes people such as suspected "dirty bomber" Abdullah al Muhajir turn to Islamic extremism? According to sociologists of religion and theologians, it is the search for security and structure in their lives.
Al Muhajir, a Puerto Rican born in New York as Jose Padilla, is under arrest for allegedly plotting to detonate a "dirty" nuclear device somewhere in the United States. He is thought to be in league with the al-Qaeda terrorist organization, which nicknamed him the "The Immigrant."

Ironically, this moniker fits into the typology of converts to Islam that Monika Wohlrab-Sahr, a German sociologist of religion, has developed after field studies in the United States and her own country.

Muslim Criminals: Largest Body of Converts in U.S.

Padilla converted to Islam while in jail. He therefore belongs to the largest body of converts in the United States. According to National Association of Muslim Chaplains, between 10 and 20 percent of the 1.5 million criminals in American penitentiaries identify themselves as Muslim.

Most are black men, some Hispanic. More than 30,000 blacks embrace this faith behind bars every year.

Wohlrab-Sahr, who teaches at the University of Leipzig and has spent a research year at Berkeley, has labeled one group of converts "symbolic emigrants." These are people who feel stigmatized or alienated by their own culture, she explained in a telephone interview.

"They emigrate culturally, often without leaving their country," she continued. Thus from the perspective of Islam, they would be religious immigrants. If this applies to al Muhajir, his al-Qaeda nickname would indeed be appropriate.

Perhaps John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban" raised in upper-crust, liberal Marin County, Calif., could be classified that way too, although the Leipzig professor entered the caveat that she would have to study both cases before making an assessment.

'Tolerance'!

Even Torquato Cardilli, the Italian ambassador to Saudi Arabia who became a Muslim last fall, may be called a symbolic immigrant who found the new culture he took on more welcoming than his own. He praised its "dignity, hospitality, tolerance, kindness and relaxation."

But al Muhajir might also come under another rubric Wohlrab termed "methodization of life conduct." It includes people whose lives had gone into a tailspin and require discipline and structure.

'Simplistic Clarity'

"The simplistic clarity of some aspects of this religion appeals to certain elements in society, " agreed Hillel Fradkin, a Jewish specialist on Islam and president of Ethics and Public Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

In a similar vain, Boston University sociologist Peter L. Berger told UPI, "There are indeed many people who are susceptible for the claims of religious certainty offered by Islam and other groups defining themselves as absolute."

Trying to Link Christians to Muslim Terrorists

Berger named Mormonism as one of these groups. Leipzig's Wohlrab added Protestant fundamentalist Christian denominations to this category.

A third category of converts identified by Wohlrab seems less significant in evaluating the al Muhajir and Walker cases: the type she called "implementation of honor" in the realm of sexual and gender relations and morality.

Women, and some men, confused "by the course of changing gender arrangements" rank among this particular group of nominal "Christians" and others embracing Islam.

Surprisingly, theological considerations rarely play a major part in most conversions, even though most converts say they did. "The Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity is often mentioned," Wohlrab said, "but you would have to be a theological virtuoso to change your religion for this reason.

"More likely, they come up with this as an afterthought, when the deed is done and they have received some instruction in their new faith. But in general, people don't switch from Christianity to Islam as a result of their in-depth study of systematic theology."

Gone Slumming

Some did, of course, especially in the past. There were English eccentrics such as Sir Archibald Hamilton, a relative of the British royal family, who died in 1939.

At a stretch, the most educated man in German history, poet Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, might have been considered a closet Muslim, though that's highly unlikely.

A German Islamic group called Weimar, after the German town where Goethe worked as a grand duke's cabinet minister, claims the illustrious wordsmith might have converted because he mentioned the prophet Muhammad in his poetry and organized readings of the Koran in his sovereign's palace.

But Goethe connoisseurs retort that, given his concupiscent lifestyle, the poet wouldn't have lasted long as a Muslim. On the other hand, studying the Koran, Arabic literature and language were not uncommon pursuits by the educated classes of Goethe's highly cultured era.

But there exists a list of prominent and theologically learned converts. It includes an African Lutheran archbishop, a Methodist minister, a Coptic priest, a Russian Orthodox archpriest and a Pentecostal elder.

However, by and large statements by converts about their former and their present beliefs tend to prove Wohlrab's theory that these were merely afterthoughts.

For example, Ali Selman Benoist, a French physician who left Catholicism for Islam, posted this statement on the Internet: One "point which moved me away from Christianity was the absolute silence which it maintains regarding bodily cleanliness."

Failure of Christian Clergy?

Clearly, he has never read the Old Testament, which to Christians is as much Holy Scripture as the New Testament. Sighed Johannes Richter, a Leipzig theologian, "The church has but itself to blame if people are moving away from their own faith traditions.

"Many of our clergy have failed to explain these traditions well. So people become fascinated by an alien religion. But that's all right. It means that we have to double our efforts to succeed on the religious marketplace."

Confidently, Richter this former regional bishop, added, "If we do it right we have nothing to fear; we are competitive."

Copyright 2002 by United Press International.

All rights reserved.

 

[SINthysist]

Yo Az...