The NRA, Wayne LaPierre, & Hillary Clinton

[KingOrfeo]

Wayne LaPierre:

National Rifle Association (NRA) executive vice president Wayne LaPierre railed against the possibility of Hillary Clinton becoming president during his remarks at the group’s annual leadership forum in Nashville on Friday, Right Wing Watch reported.

“She will not bring a new dawn of promise and new opportunity,” LaPierre argued. “Hillary Rodham Clinton will bring a permanent darkness of deceit and despair, forced upon the American people to endure.”

Y'know, the NRA is not essentially a politically conservative or RW organization. A Communist (or a self-ID'd hippie pothead like BotanyBoy) can be just as good a member as any other. Does none of the membership object that LaPierre is going way, way beyond gun-rights politics here?

 

[HellBenttoo]

Wayne LaPierre:



Y'know, the NRA is not essentially a politically conservative or RW organization. A Communist (or a self-ID'd hippie pothead like BotanyBoy) can be just as good a member as any other. Does none of the membership object that LaPierre is going way, way beyond gun-rights politics here?

Yes, many of us object to the words and actions of LaPierre. That is why almost everyone I know, including myself, dropped our membership several years ago.

 

[RjThoughts]

Yes, many of us object to the words and actions of LaPierre. That is why almost everyone I know, including myself, dropped our membership several years ago.

George Bush, the older, dropped his membership as well. ALL of my cousins, even those in law enforcement, have dropped their memberships. The organization has overstepped their gun rights platform and have begun becoming a far right, even further right of all Lit conservatives, organization.

People should have been aware of this during the 2000 presidential elections when they began disseminating false information about Gore who was going to take away their guns.

 

[RjThoughts]

Also, NRA now stands for "Not Reality Aware"

 

[BotanyBoy]

Wayne LaPierre:
“She will not bring a new dawn of promise and new opportunity,” LaPierre argued. “Hillary Rodham Clinton will bring a permanent darkness of deceit and despair, forced upon the American people to endure.”

Well he got half of it right.....the other half is just speculatin'

 

[KingOrfeo]

The NRA was not always like this. It used to be all about marksmanship, sportsmanship, training, gun safety, and responsible use of firearms. It even endorsed gun-control legislation.

The NRA formed its Legislative Affairs Division to update members with facts and analysis of upcoming bills,[16] after the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) became the first federal gun-control law passed in the U.S.[17] The NRA supported the NFA along with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), which together created a system to federally license gun dealers and established restrictions on particular categories and classes of firearms.[18]

Until the middle 1970s, the NRA mainly focused on sportsmen, hunters and target shooters, and downplayed gun control issues. However, passage of the GCA galvanized a growing number of NRA gun rights activists, including Harlon Carter. In 1975, it began to focus more on politics and established its lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA), with Carter as director. The next year, its political action committee (PAC), the Political Victory Fund, was created in time for the 1976 elections.[19]:158 The 1977 annual convention was a defining moment for the organization and came to be known as "The Cincinnati Revolution."[20] Leadership planned to relocate NRA headquarters to Colorado and to build a $30 million recreational facility in New Mexico, but activists within the organization whose central concern was Second Amendment rights defeated the incumbents and elected Carter as executive director and Neal Knox as head of the NRA-ILA.[21][22]

 

[BotanyBoy]

It even endorsed gun-control legislation.

That was before the left completely lost it's shit and tried to fix a small cal handgun problem with rifle accessories bans and "gun free Derpz"

Lot's of dumber than all fuck legislation based upon ignorance and fear...not facts and rationally thought out solutions.

 

[KingOrfeo]

That was before the left completely lost it's shit and tried to fix a small cal handgun problem with rifle accessories bans and "gun free Derpz"

That is not what the Gun Control Act of 1968 (which provoked the backlash and the "Cincinnati Revolution") was about; it was about licensing firearms dealers, prohibiting mail-order sales (Lee Harvey Oswald got his rifle that way), and keeping guns out of the hands of violent criminals and mental defectives. All very reasonable measures, don't you think?

 

[BotanyBoy]

That is not what the Gun Control Act of 1968 (which provoked the backlash and the "Cincinnati Revolution") was about; it was about licensing firearms dealers, prohibiting mail-order sales (Lee Harvey Oswald got his rifle that way), and keeping guns out of the hands of violent criminals and mental defectives. All very reasonable measures, don't you think?

That's not when the LW stupid set NRA derp off and everyone went fuckin' stupid as fuck. Try 1994....as that is when the LvR gun control pissing contest as we understand it today really started.

And it is a partisan pissing contest...neither side has any real genuine interest in the matter beyond "sticking it" to the other team at this point.

 

[KingOrfeo]

That's not when the LW stupid set NRA derp off and everyone went fuckin' stupid as fuck. Try 1994....as that is when the LvR gun control pissing contest as we understand it today really started.

And it is a partisan pissing contest...neither side has any real genuine interest in the matter beyond "sticking it" to the other team at this point.

Do you really not believe the right cares about gun rights nor the left about gun crime?

 

[HellBenttoo]

I joined the NRA in 1975. We worked toward gun and hunter safety and actually, as an organization, supported common sense firearms legislation
Sometime in the 1980's or early 90's the group became more political, mirroring the rise of local "militia" groups.

Many of us fought for years to stay the course of gun safety and hunter education. Following the contentious election of LaPierre in 1990 or 1991 the NRA became a straight up lobbying organization. LaPierre was, and is, a Washington insider and lobbyist who has made his fortune on the backs of good intentioned people.

Four or five years after his election LaPierre issued a fundraising appeal in which he referred to federal law enforcement as "jack booted thugs". It became apparent to many of us that the NRA had lost any credibility it had ever had. We resigned en mass. Perhaps a failing on our part because the more radical elements declared victory. We are left with an ultra-right wing political lobby group.

 

[JackLuis]

I joined the NRA because it was mandatory at the club i joined, but after two years of nonstop begging from Wane and his bullshit, I left the NRA for good.

WLP is a prick and a would be terrorist, terrorizing the nincompoop right about the creeping socialism of most everything.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Four or five years after his election LaPierre issued a fundraising appeal in which he referred to federal law enforcement as "jack booted thugs". It became apparent to many of us that the NRA had lost any credibility it had ever had. We resigned en mass. Perhaps a failing on our part because the more radical elements declared victory. We are left with an ultra-right wing political lobby group.

And the really tragic thing is that the only other major national gun club remaining in America is even worse.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Do you really not believe the right cares about gun rights nor the left about gun crime?

Not anywhere NEAR as much as they care about sticking it to the other team....it's the only explanation for the hyped up bullshit lies and hysteria all the while doing everything they can to avoid legitimate solutions to their supposed problems. And yes it happens on both sides.

All either side can see is absolutes and they will do anything they politically can to get it....they don't give a FUCK if it's the right thing to do. Assault weapons ban? Guns in school? Weapon registration??

Fuckin' retards.....

 

[KingOrfeo]

Not anywhere NEAR as much as they care about sticking it to the other team....it's the only explanation for the hyped up bullshit lies and hysteria all the while doing everything they can to avoid legitimate solutions to their supposed problems. And yes it happens on both sides.

All either side can see is absolutes and they will do anything they politically can to get it....they don't give a FUCK if it's the right thing to do. Assault weapons ban? Guns in school? Weapon registration??

Fuckin' retards.....

Now, now, you're posing a false equivalence there. The left at least cares about facts and reality, the right does not.

Democrats, too, hold dear to their beliefs. It’s part of human nature to want to resist information that contradicts with the way we see the world. Psychologists call the practice confirmation bias, and define it as the tendency to interpret information in ways that support our preconceptions. And yet, we don’t all resist correction of our false beliefs to the same degree.

Indeed, there is research that suggests there is a vast difference between a liberal’s ability to accept a new take on the world than a conservative’s. To put it simply, part of what it means to be liberal is to be open-minded. That means liberals are open to information that might change a perception. In contrast, conservatives are defined as resisting change and as emotionally attaching more strongly to their beliefs. What we find with Tea Party politics, though, is a far more extremist version of Republican beliefs than we have ever seen before. Michael Grunwald of Time calls the new GOP an example of “reality-defying extremism and chronic obstructionism and borderline surrealism.”

 

[HellBenttoo]

Now, now, you're posing a false equivalence there. The left at least cares about facts and reality, the right does not.

I believe one of the problems that we encounter in these discussion is the assumption that conservative = Republican and liberal =Democrat. While the liberal may be more inclined to change his mind after discovering new facts I do not believe that the politically active Democrat will do the same. The liberal agenda is not the same as the Democrat party agenda.

The same holds true for the Republican party. In my opinion most people are neither fanatically Democrat or Republican but somewhere in the middle. But those of us who wish to blend aspects of liberalism and conservatism are not exciting enough to sell advertising so the media concentrates on the fanatics.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Now, now, you're posing a false equivalence there.

No I'm not.

The left does not give a fuck about the actual gun violence issue or they would not have spent 25 years railing for failed/irrelevant policy that they have. The reason they go after restrictions on weaponry used in no more than 1% of gun crimes? Moar gun free zones despite the GLARING and OVERWHELMING evidence of how fucking stupid the very concept is?

Because it PISSES the other side off....there is no other reason.

Get fucking real hacky mc partisan hack hack. If they gave a fuckin in the first place they would have never even considered any of the "gun control" policy they have in at least 23 years.

The partisan gun control debate is lost on both sides HORRIBLY, neither one gives a SHIT about the public interest with regard to gun control policy. It's a political pissing contest over votes and money...that's it.

I believe one of the problems that we encounter in these discussion is the assumption that conservative = Republican and liberal =Democrat. While the liberal may be more inclined to change his mind after discovering new facts I do not believe that the politically active Democrat will do the same. The liberal agenda is not the same as the Democrat party agenda.

The same holds true for the Republican party. In my opinion most people are neither fanatically Democrat or Republican but somewhere in the middle. But those of us who wish to blend aspects of liberalism and conservatism are not exciting enough to sell advertising so the media concentrates on the fanatics.

Which I think not only perpetuates but helps to grow the fanatic base further dividing the country....just my opinion....but when I was a kid I just didn't see as many senior citizens screaming at their TV's all day about that "God damn unamerican piece of shit democrat/republican!!" like I do today.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8b/52/ba/8b52ba328ac8a13e3982088256d425ad.jpg

 

[about_average]

There's also the American Rifle Association.
In the current debate our members are willing to discuss all solutions including but not limited to: Universal Background Checks, Mental Health Initiatives and Cultural Change.

I'm not an NRA member because of their extremism, their black and white entrenchment, even though they do some good stuff.
Same reason I never joined the ACLU, their insistence that "the people" in the bill of rights applies to individuals everywhere except the second amendment. Even thought they do good stuff too.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I think Bot you're mistaking not caring with lacking the relevant knowledge. If people really gave a shit about gun crime (and knew the facts) they would push hard for extremely strict gun control on handguns. And I'm not certain I'm against that for the record. But handguns are seen as "harmless" and for self defense. And with a few exceptions (I'm admittedly uncomfortable with the idea of people having .50 cal machine guns or Tommy Guns.) ignore rifles and shot guns. Hell I'd go as far as to make it mandatory that every American own a Semi-Auto rifle and a shot gun and go to the range every three years to qualify. Never can be too careful with all those commies around! And make you need a license.

But that's a combination of people lacking the required knowledge.

 

[RjThoughts]

Does anyone know if the NRA is a tax-free organization? IF they are, they're not allowed to spout political shit like Wayner does.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I think Bot you're mistaking not caring with lacking the relevant knowledge. If people really gave a shit about gun crime (and knew the facts) they would push hard for extremely strict gun control on handguns. And I'm not certain I'm against that for the record. But handguns are seen as "harmless" and for self defense. And with a few exceptions (I'm admittedly uncomfortable with the idea of people having .50 cal machine guns or Tommy Guns.) ignore rifles and shot guns. Hell I'd go as far as to make it mandatory that every American own a Semi-Auto rifle and a shot gun and go to the range every three years to qualify. Never can be too careful with all those commies around! And make you need a license.

But that's a combination of people lacking the required knowledge.

The leaders of the DNC god damn know better otherwise they wouldn't be pulling every emotional appeal they can to bullshit about the facts and get a lot of their stupid crammed back into law to give their constituents a warm fuzzy. A large part of which is watching the RW collectively lose their fucking shit.

And I still maintain if the left really cared they would have cared to go via the facts presented as they usually do but this is one of the strongest examples where they just SHITCAN reality for what sounds/feels good. They don't do it often...fare less than the RW no doubt but when it comes to guns my gawd the vast majority on the left just INSIST on stupid to the bitter fucking end. For some reason this particular brand of sensationalism just pushes collective willful ignorance on the left right up to 11.
http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/~aephraim/Goesto11/11.jpg

And the Right is too...moar gunz = less crime!! A well armed society is a polite society!! Really? Since when? Never..that's just as fucking stupid.

But it sends lefty to the FUCKING MOON!!! And gets the collective RW jollies off and indulges their evil state end of the world SHTF delusions even further.

I honestly don't see either side having a fuckin' shred of high ground on this particular argument...it's rife with misinformation from our leadership, hype by the news media to push it and a lot of emotions to keep it burning and both sides have used/manipulated all of these elements for political/economic gain/warfare against the other side to the detriment of the citizens welfare.

Cash is King....

 

[phrodeau]

Does anyone know if the NRA is a tax-free organization? IF they are, they're not allowed to spout political shit like Wayner does.

They spend millions on Congresspeople so they can be allowed to spout political shit and still be tax exempt.

 

[KingOrfeo]

But handguns are seen as "harmless" and for self defense.

I haven't seen any stats, but I daresay the vast majority of armed crimes are done with handguns; they're concealable.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I haven't seen any stats, but I daresay the vast majority of armed crimes are done with handguns; they're concealable.

Exactly. But nobody would ever talk about a handgun ban. Because they aren't perceived the same way as an AR-15. While Bot an I disagree on how useful all those "cosmetic" changes are to the weapon we can agree that the crimes commited with them are low. I honestly think if you gave everybody an AR and the right to carry them wherever they pleased all but the most hardcore would stop after the first few months just out of sheer annoyance.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I haven't seen any stats, but I daresay the vast majority of armed crimes are done with handguns; they're concealable.

That's the point.....

Exactly. But nobody would ever talk about a handgun ban. Because they aren't perceived the same way as an AR-15. While Bot an I disagree on how useful all those "cosmetic" changes are to the weapon we can agree that the crimes commited with them are low. I honestly think if you gave everybody an AR and the right to carry them wherever they pleased all but the most hardcore would stop after the first few months just out of sheer annoyance.

Not that we even disagree on that, I totally admit a more ergonomically adjustable weapon makes it more usable for a wider range of people over old school wooden rifle stocks/grips. What we disagree on is is that banning a class of weapon based upon that criteria prevents any gun crimes....I just don't see banning bayonet lugs and muzzle flashes stopping any gun crimes. It's JUST to piss off the RW/gun fans.