The New Scarlet Letter?

[R. Richard]

I understand the age gap thing. I think I was trying to allude to the fact that in such cases where the age gap was determined more than enough to charge statutory rape that the actual charge should be akin to a sex offense. I mean, if we're going to label some able to decide past age 'X' and label the others of consensual age 'Y' then there should be some distinction in the charge, no?

No, there is no distinction in the charges! If charges are brought, they are sex offense charges plain and simple. However, in many cases charges are never brought. It is often the case that the parents of the "victim" do not want charges brought because the filing of the charges would label their daughter as a "loose woman," regardless of the outcome of a trial.

The problem can get pretty complex. However, a 21-year-old man with a 14-year-old girl is statutory rape. Even if the girl "consents," the stupid son-of-a-bitch ought to have enough sense to realize the "15 will get you 20" also applies to 14. However, if they charged with statutory rape every 18-year-old boy who had sex with a 16-year-old girl, there wouldn't be enough prisons to hold the horny bastards.

I have seen 16-year-old girls who would turn on any normal man [as long as she doesn't tallk to him.] I have never seen a 6-year-old girl who would turn on a normal man.

 

[minsue]

No, there is no distinction in the charges! If charges are brought, they are sex offense charges plain and simple.

That's simply not true in every state, R. In AZ, the only offenders listed on the registration are of the upper "levels" of offenses and even then only those considered at an "intermediate" or "high" risk level of reoffending. An 18 yr old having consensual sex with a 16 yr old would certainly NOT fall into that category and would not be listed.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

In legislatures around the country "grown ups" are gradually undertaking the process of cleaning up the statutes to narrow the sex-registries down to just those individuals that a reasonable person would agree are a threat. The process is slow and there are reverses as some new politicized crime-du-jour gets added to the list, but in general the trend is moving in a rational direction.

 

[nyte_byrd]

I agree that there needs to be a registry for offenders, but only to an extent. It doesn't serve any purpose that I can see for them to list all sex offenses at a seemingly equal level. I just personally don't care to know about statuatory cases between 18-yr-old boy and his 16-yr-old girlfriend, or an old man who's been arrested several times for getting drunk and taking a leak behind the WalMart, and I'm not sure it would worry me to hear that the 30-yr-old guy down the street once slept with a 17-yr-old who blatantly lied about her age. Shit happens. Let them serve their time/pay their fines and get on with their lives. If they're going to list and label everybody who's ever done anything bad, then they may as well go whole-hog and tell us if the girl across the street ever ran a crack house, if the guy on the corner used to break into houses when nobody was home, etc., etc. The whole thing would get out of hand and unmanagable in no time, and they're really not giving out info that will benefit anybody.
However, if "Mr. X" next door has a long-standing history of playing more than just board games with little kids in his basement, I want to know. We live in a very friendly neighborhood, and I think parents have a right to to know if there's someone nearby that we need to closely monitor our kids with.
Again, I'm not talking about shunning every man who's ever poked the wrong gal or whipped his wank out in public. But if he's a true child molester then I have no pity for him being labeled and treated differently. He's done something that will affect that child for its entire life, so why feel sorry if he gets treated differently for the rest of his?

 

[3113]

Why am I under fire to find a new fucking fix? What is it with all the bleeding hearts around here wanting to fight for these poor souls without putting safeguards in place for their past victims and potential future victims? I'm not a lawmaker.

I'm sorry if you feel you're under fire, but you're not under fire from me. You keep saying, "These guys are bad and somethings should be done." And I agree. Totally and utterly. Something should be done.

What I don't agree about is that what's being done is working. And you're really off the mark if you think I'm bleeding heart about this. YOU do NOT think they should be locked up for life.

I do. If there was a resonable way to give them a productive life stranded on some island, I'd certainly consider it.

I'm more of a hard ass about this than you are. Because we can't solve the problem by letting them (and here I mean the repeate and uncurable pedophiles and rapists) out on the streets among the citizens. It's not working.

But before we even consider my suggestion, I want to make sure we separate those who can't help themselves, who have hurt before and will hurt again from those who are being slandered,from those who just exposed themselves or solitited a prostitute or had sex with a 14 year old who insisted she was 18, from those who have malicious wives, etc. etc. etc.

I don't know how I came across in that post, but from my end, I've no emotional stake in this at all--except for those who are getting screwed by registry and that includes the people it's suppose to protect that it isn't protecting.

 

[Belegon]

There needs to be a limiting of how this is applied.

Do I strike anyone here as a danger to their children?

In November 1987, I was working for a dept. store and we had a new seasonal employee. She worked the morning shift like I did...I knew she was out of high school. I knew where she had gone to high school. I never asked her age before I started dating her. I knew she was under 21 (I was 22) but out of high school, because she talked about graduating and she worked during school hours. Eventually she told me she was only 18. Her birthday was in July.

So, after we've been going out a couple months she spent a night at my place. The next day we drive her home. She still lives with her parents, not that unusual for an 18-19 year old.

Her father, who had been worried (remember, no cell phones back then) is waiting. After his daughter goes to get changed he "invites" me into the living room and "asks" me where the hell I have been all night with his *17* year old daughter.

You could have knocked me over by breathing hard on my chest.

Luckily, when he saw my reaction and realized his daughter had lied to me, the situation calmed rapidly. I ended up being with this young lady for another 3 1/2 years and damn near married her.

22 on 17 qualifies as Statuatory Rape. Do I belong on a registry?

In 1992 that same girl was raped by a guy in the backseat of a car while his girlfriend drove them around. The guy and girl got off because the prosecution didn't want to go to trial because my ex was working as a stripper. This despite the presence of bruises and the medical evidence because she was smart enough to go to the police before cleaning up.

Those two were never actually charged despite the fact that they were seen together, photographed using her ATM card and there was massive physical evidence. Because the prosecutor didn't think he could win the case because she left work in their company and she worked as a dancer.

So I could have gone on the registry and they would not have.

Violent rape. Rape through intimidation or threat. Predatory action on an actual child. So many things make my blood boil in this area. But the laws as they stand need some redefining.

edit: I am not against registries in general. I agree with the AZ situation described by Min. I sure as HELL am on L & V's side concerning the situation of my children's safety. But I don't think Stat Rape of a person who can reasonably appear as being of age and in which both parties are consenting should be this kind of crime.

 

[Captain Midnight]

May a victim speak?

I haven't told anybody on Lit yet ... but I was molested as a child. Several times. Once when I was ten, by other ten-year-olds. The others at age fourteen, by a close acquaintance.

It's something you never really get over. All my life, I was haunted by the thought that I had "asked for it" simply by existing and being a "pretty boy." To this day, I almost completely avoid men -- ANY men -- because of the fear that one of them will do it to me again.

I also have known some female sexual-assault victims, though I haven't known them at the time of the assault. I heard of one person in particular whom I believe died as a result of the assault (not by murder, but as a consequence of what happened).

I live in fear that I will commit a sex crime myself. Perhaps for that reason, I can't condone the harsh measures given out to sex criminals, at least the ones who don't rape or otherwise assault their victims. I wouldn't fancy being thrown in prison and raped, or worse, after being a victim.

I don't know how many victims of sexual abuse become sex criminals. I doubt if anyone could guess. You might argue that victims of violent crime might (or might not) become violent offenders themselves, or victims of theft might steal as a result.

Oddly, I am a political and social conservative, pleased to warn parents (in newspaper reviews of movies) about things that might traumatize the kids. I'd vote against gay marriage or abortion (no, the two aren't linked, but both have much to do with children). I'd be upset about sexual affairs among teenagers, feeling those people don't understand how much sex means to the parties involved.

Oddly too, considering the circumstances, I shed my homophobia over time as I realized homosexuality had nothing to do with the crimes committed against me.
I haven't shed homophobia entirely -- I still feel gay sex isn't natural and that therefore only the people who are strongly attracted to one another should practice it (okay, same for hetero sex because of the emotional consequences).

I still fear assaults by men and figure I won't be assaulted by a woman. (Still believe that, and have a very hard time with these female teacher-male student sex cases. If I feel a grandstanding prosecutor is trying to win the approval of the public by body-slamming a person who didn't commit a crime, that prosecutor goes into the same league as the Taliban, for exactly the same reasons. And I will do my dead-level best to get out of judging someone in such a case.)

I doubt if anyone will sympathize with me if I commit a sex crime. I don't want to commit a sex crime, and I hope I never do. But there are no guarantees in life. I don't want to commit a violent crime (non-sex-related), but I can be provoked. All I can do is hope and pray that I don't turn vigilante on a rapist-killer, or certain other people whom I detest.

The people who attacked me are not the people I detest. I can't do it. They will be judged elsewhere, sometime. I hope not after they commit other crimes. But I can't bring myself to hate them.

Thanks for listening.

 

[minsue]

 

[TheEarl]

I know someone who got a blowjob from a thirteen year old. He was twenty-one at the time.

That sounds awful, when put into stark empirical terms like that, but believe it or not, there are mitigating circumstances. This was back when I was working as a lifeguard at a local holiday park's swimming pool. There was a group of us, mostly young men, and we occasionally had girls coming up and talking to us, flirting and chatting about nothing at all. A few of them were young teens who were still young enough to be impressed by the lifeguard thing, but a few were high-teens or low twenties.

One guy fancied himself a bit of a lady-killer and he and I got into conversation with this girl. She was pretty enough, very curvy and claimed she was eighteen. Some of her immature attitudes made this a blatant lie, but it was obvious to any of us that she was over sixteen (the legal age in England) from the way she looked.

Our lady-killer made progress, and eventually ended up taking her back to his caravan.

He came in the next day, absolutely white as a sheet. The little cow had told him that she was thirteen immediately afterwards, just to laugh at his reaction.

The Earl

 

[sharpchick]

One of the problems is lack of uniformity and plain old common sense. Although most of what has been written so far is about pedophiles, it is much more common than you think for knee-jerk reactions by prosecutors and judges to make sexual predators out of people who are not.

This year, I am working in the juvenile detention system, trying to reform the abuses there. On our caseload we have eleven "sex offenders" who are mentally retarded, with IQs so low that under our state law, they are not capable of legally consenting to sex - in other words, if their "victims" had not been younger than they are (which is common among mentally retarded kids, because they shy away from making friends with kids their age with higher cognitive function than they have), these kids would have been considered victims themselves.

All the research and studies on kids with mental retardation show that the ones committing "sex offenses" most often have been victimized themselves - by someone they know and trust. . . someone they beleived when they were told that this act is the way you make friends and show people you love them. THey are acting out what has been done to them. Most of the ones who don't fall into that category were playing a 14 year old mentally retarded kid's version of doctor.

Then, upon adjudication (most frequently with a public defender who tells them, "You know you did it, plead guilty'), they are placed in correction facilities with cognitive therapy programs which they cannot possibility complete successfully - a lot of them cannot even read. Since they cannot complete the program, as adults they must register as sex offenders and keep the registration current. Four of the eleven kids I am representing now will be adult level 3 offenders when they age out of the juvenile system.

 

[nyte_byrd]

There needs to be a limiting of how this is applied.

Do I strike anyone here as a danger to their children?

In November 1987, I was working for a dept. store and we had a new seasonal employee. She worked the morning shift like I did...I knew she was out of high school. I knew where she had gone to high school. I never asked her age before I started dating her. I knew she was under 21 (I was 22) but out of high school, because she talked about graduating and she worked during school hours. Eventually she told me she was only 18. Her birthday was in July.

So, after we've been going out a couple months she spent a night at my place. The next day we drive her home. She still lives with her parents, not that unusual for an 18-19 year old.

Her father, who had been worried (remember, no cell phones back then) is waiting. After his daughter goes to get changed he "invites" me into the living room and "asks" me where the hell I have been all night with his *17* year old daughter.

Luckily, when he saw my reaction and realized his daughter had lied to me, the situation calmed rapidly. I ended up being with this young lady for another 3 1/2 years and damn near married her.

22 on 17 qualifies as Statuatory Rape. Do I belong on a registry?

Nope, and that's exactly what I was talking about in my post. I would NOT hesitate to let my children near you, nor would there be any reason to ever act any differently around you as a neighbor. Your situation I see as *her* fault, and she should be ashamed for risking getting you into trouble like that. And, since it wasn't a forced/violent crime, nobody has a right to know your business.

As for the ones who actually did rape this girl, they are criminals and should definitely be on the registry. I would want to know that these are neighbors that it's probably not wise to be alone with (especially since they have the power of knowing they got away with it!) It doesn't matter what the girl involved did for a living either. Being a dancer doesn't mean being a free-for-all whore, and I hate it when people think that way.