The New Scarlet Letter?

[impressive]

I was reading an editorial this morning about sex offender registries (and their unanticipated effects on property values), and it occurred to me that these crimes are the only ones for which those convicted can "do their time" and still never again be free.

Is that as it should be? At what point do we trust? Ever?

Even murderers aren't as hobbled by their pasts, and many sex offenders aren't even guilty of violent crimes. Would not a violent crime registry be more equitable and better serve the public interest?

Thoughts?

 

[rgraham666]

Most human beings need something to hate. Sex offender is currently a popular one.

And most people are not comfortable with the idea of innocent until proven guilty. Especially when applied to 'those people'.

Seriously, I think sex offender registries are an outgrowth of one of North America's chief communal neuroses, the belief that we can bring everything under control. Once everybody is marked, catalogued and put in their place, life will be perfect and wonderful forever. Crime will end, the sun will shine, and we'll all be rich.

 

[cantdog]

Thanks, Rob.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Sex offenders, especially those who target underage kids, are a special class of criminal. They simply cannot be compared to any other type. I've known both offenders and offended. There is a certain similarity between those who molest underage kids and alcoholics. While I'm sure there are exception to the rule, one never becomes a "recovered" alcoholic or child molester. The only chance is that the person can, somehow, avoid temptation.

These registers bother me, a lot. It's a program that can be abused, such as a case here in Texas where a 19 year old boy was listed for having sex with his 16 year old girlfried. But in this age of easy travel and communication, they may be unavoidable.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Guest]

I was reading an editorial this morning about sex offender registries (and their unanticipated effects on property values), and it occurred to me that these crimes are the only ones for which those convicted can "do their time" and still never again be free.

Is that as it should be? At what point do we trust? Ever?

Even murderers aren't as hobbled by their pasts, and many sex offenders aren't even guilty of violent crimes. Would not a violent crime registry be more equitable and better serve the public interest?

Thoughts?

I don't think we can ever trust them, as Rumple said.

If they are true pedophiles, they will not "recover" and children will never be safe from them. If they have opportunity . . .

That said, it is probably criminal to have them on a registry to allow them to be tormented by the general population after they've served their time.

And THAT being said, because I have young children, I would prefer knowing if they moved in next door.

I need more coffee.

 

[Pure]

interesting questions.

one needs to look at re offense rates, and iirc, at least one category of murderer, 'the crime of passion,' may not be that likely.

i agree pedophilia is like an addicition, but i don't see a methodone solution being proposed-- let them have the pics, but stay away from the real life kids.

'registry for the violent'--seems like that's happening, as the prisions get full, and states exchange info; national crime databases, etc.
seems like it could be a 'registry for the non white young males' however.

here's a thought: the sex offender registry externalizes the threat.
whereas, iirc, most kids run into molestation [or abuse] from: teachers, coaches, step-parents, uncles, grand dad, and their own parents. now, too, the casual 'internet' troller could be almost anyone (male).

i would like to see the comparative odds of a kid having an unlawful encounter with a 'registered sex offender' vs. 'uncle joe.' i believe it's somewhat like the rape problem: one like to think the 'rapists' lurk in the bushes, whereas they're more commonly acquaintances, neighbors, etc.

i agree the 'tough on crime' agenda is not addressing issues of prevention; it's giving rise to warehousing, and a whole industry (somewhat privatized) of prison related companies and personnel.

here's one last thought: there are attempts to catalog the millions of 'undocumented persons', and it's claimed that they might be terrorists. OTOH, we know the 9-11 folks got their visas, opened bank accounts and some were listed in the phone directory. Some of the British terrorists were homegrown and so will some be, for the US, it's only a matter of time (Lindh). i think cataloguing 'illegals' may become a pastime.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Yes, Rob, I think you're right. It's about fear and control.

I have small children, and I don't believe the sex offender registry should exist.

Part of the problem I have with it is that even if someone has an offense like statutory rape (an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old here in the state of MI) they can end up on a sex offenders list for the rest of their lives. There are wayyyyyyy too many horrible and devastating false abuse allegations nowadays, with the cult of fear about this issue, esp in nasty divorce cases. The problem, also, is that you do not have to be accused of a felony to be put on a "list." There have been people, desperate just to see their children once a week with the supervision of Child Protective Services who took them away in the first place at just the hint of the allegation, agreeing to jump through all their hoops, including counseling, etc.... only to later find out that by agreeing to follow CPS' plan, they effectively admitted their guilt when they, in fact, did nothing wrong, and now the court has a right to put them on a sex offender list. For the rest of their lives.

For the same reason I'm not in favor of the death penalty (the possibility of killing an innocent person) I'm not in favor of a list identifying "offenders."

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Boy's body found, sex offender arrested


BALTIMORE - An 11-year-old boy missing since last week was found slain early Monday on a golf course near his home, and a twice-convicted child sex offender was arrested in his death, police said.

An autopsy was being performed on the body of Irvin Harris to establish the cause of death.

Hours after finding the body, police arrested Melvin Jones Jr., 52, inside a downtown fast food restaurant after they got an anonymous tip that he was there. He was charged Monday night with first-degree murder and other crimes, according to Nicole Monroe, a police spokeswoman.

Col. Fred Bealefeld, the department's chief of detectives, described Jones as the Harris family's friend and said there was "every indication" that Irvin's mother knew about Jones' 2002 conviction for having sex with a teenage boy.

"I'm blaming myself right now," Irvin's mother, Shanda Harris, told WBAL-TV. "By trusting Melvin, now my son is gone."

Jones pleaded guilty to child sexual abuse in 1989 and served about seven months in prison, said Joseph Sviatko, a spokesman for the Baltimore state's attorney's office. He pleaded guilty in 2002 to a sex offense involving a 15-year-old boy and was sentenced to a year in prison, Sviatko said.

The victim in the 2002 case met Jones when he was walking home from school, and the two had sex several times over a period of about 18 months, according to court documents. Jones told police while being questioned "that he was a pedophile who needed help," the court documents state.Jones registered as a sex offender after his 2002 conviction and was on probation, Sviatko said.

Irvin was last seen by his family Friday around noon, when he left for his summer job at a nearby grocery store, Moses said. His body was found before daybreak in a densely wooded section of the Clifton Park Golf Course, out of the sight of golfers.

 

[BlackShanglan]

The only sex offender I have known personally asked the police to lock him away. He was aware that he could not control himself and that he would reoffend if given the opportunity. Unfortunately, they could not arrest him until he offended again.

While I agree that some crimes are listed as registry offenses that ideally should not be, I also think that some people require a level of intervention that extends to "as many people as possible helping to keep children out of this person's life." Like Rumple, I do believe that there are some people who can never safely be left with children, regardless of how much prison time they may have served. In some, it is an uncontrollable compulsion; at the moment, the only solutions we have are permanent custodial care or public efforts to keep children out of their lives.

 

[Antfarmer77]

Maybe a "3 strikes and you're out" rule, especially for pedo's.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

statistically, true pedophiles (like the extreme ones mentioned here) are actually rare--it's just such a heinous crime, that it gets much more news attention (both actual and paid attention to.) Using a sex offender list to identify a TRUE pedophile is like trying to use a haystack to illuminate a needle. And like Shang said, most pedophiles know, and most WANT help (and I won't get into the "can they be helped" discussion again...) I think you dilute the power of something like a sexual offender registry by listing people who have commited crimes like statutory rape, etc. And they're not going to stop using it that way, because of the cult of fear we have about this particular crime...

 

[Liar]

Who exactly are put on those sex offender lists?

Pedophiles and flat out rapists, no contest. Even though the implications for those who wouldn't do it again are unfair, I can see the arguments for it.

But how about other sex offences? Which are included?

Pubic exposure? That could be me, an as harmless guy as they come, who takes an emergency leak in the park after a bar hopping night and gets spotted by an over zealous cop.

Statuatory rape? That could be me, an as harmless guy as they come, having sex with my legally-too-young girlfriend. (Back when I was young enough to hang around w teens, of course. These days that would be...um...slightly creepy.) In fact, I'd just have to forget what US state I was in, if I was 18 and she was, say, 16. Come think of it, that was exactly the case with my first gf. So if we'd been together in the states and not here I'd be a sex offender.

Sexual harassment? Is that grounds for being on the list? IMO a worse act than boinking a legally out-of-bounds, but otherwise consenting teen.

Prostitution and/or soliciting prostitution? Will a john be put on the list if caught? Will the seller too? Both are doing something illegal that has to do with sex.

Sodomy? Hey, it IS still illegal in some states, is it not? So doing it would be a sex crime. Right?

 

[cloudy]

Sodomy? Hey, it IS still illegal in some states, is it not? So doing it would be a sex crime. Right?

Not anymore, thank goodness. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that sodomy laws are unconstitutional on June 26, 2003.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Who exactly are put on those sex offender lists?

Pedophiles and flat out rapists, no contest. Even though the implications for those who wouldn't do it again are unfair, I can see the arguments for it.

But how about other sex offences? Which are included?

Pubic exposure? That could be me, an as harmless guy as they come, who takes an emergency leak in the park after a bar hopping night and gets spotted by an over zealous cop.

Statuatory rape? That could be me, an as harmless guy as they come, having sex with my legally-too-young girlfriend. (Back when I was young enough to hang around w teens, of course. These days that would be...um...slightly creepy.) In fact, I'd just have to forget what US state I was in, if I was 18 and she was, say, 16. Come think of it, that was exactly the case with my first gf. So if we'd been together in the states and not here I'd be a sex offender.

Sexual harassment? Is that grounds for being on the list? IMO a worse act than boinking a legally out-of-bounds, but otherwise consenting teen.

Prostitution and/or soliciting prostitution? Will a john be put on the list if caught? Will the seller too? Both are doing something illegal that has to do with sex.

Sodomy? Hey, it IS still illegal in some states, is it not? So doing it would be a sex crime. Right?

It varies from state to state, but honestly... usually anything considered a sex crime gets you put on a list. From obscene phone calls to the rape of an infant.

Here's an article about a 12 year old in Kansas put on the sex offender list for... playing doctor.

Interesting stats:

While often considered highly dangerous by the public once released from prison, sex offenders have a relatively low recidivism rate. Most sex offenders have between a 3 and 13% chance of reoffense. More specifically, the rate for new sex crimes is 13.7%, the rate for child molestation is 12.7%, the rate for child molestation within families is 8.4%, and the rate for rape 18.9%.

and

Illinois has a bill currently to ban or revoke sex offenders' right to vote....

also

Iowa in the most militant state:

The State of Iowa has passed some of the toughest sex offender legislation in the United States. Under Iowa Code 692A, sex offenders are banned from living within 2,000 feet of schools and day cares [1], which essentially bans sex offenders from living in most cities and towns. In Does I, II & III v. Miller, a federal judge from the southern district of Iowa held that the 2,000 foot rule was unconstitutional and violated an offender's right to substantive due process of the law and overturned the law citing its retroactive sanctions on sex offenders and their families (violating the ex post facto clause of the Constitution). A year later, that ruling was reversed by the Iowa Court of Appeals, following the violent Jetsetta Gage child murder case. The Court of Appeals said the statute was legal in the name of public safety. After the residency restrictions went into effect, the number of sex offender registrants with unconfirmed whereabouts increased 400%. Other sex offenders adjudicated for not registering or for living within restricted areas usually remain in the Iowa penal system for the entirety of their ten years on the registry.

Iowa law also requires children and teens who have been adjudicated delinquent juveniles for sex crimes to register as sex offenders.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

i would like to see the comparative odds of a kid having an unlawful encounter with a 'registered sex offender' vs. 'uncle joe.' i believe it's somewhat like the rape problem: one like to think the 'rapists' lurk in the bushes, whereas they're more commonly acquaintances, neighbors, etc.

Victimization of juveniles usually takes place within families (34%) and among friends (59%). Juveniles are rarely victimized by strangers (7%)

Victimization of adults generally occurs among acquaintances (61%) and family members (12%). Victimization by strangers is far less common (27%).

Half (44%) of men imprisoned for a sex crime victimized their own child, stepchild or other family member. Rarely (7%) was the victim a stranger.

The vast majority (84%) of sexual assaults on children below age 12 occur in a residence.


Child molester rearrest rate for new sex crime against a child: 3.3%
All sex offender rearrest rate for new sex crime against a child: 2.2%
All sex offenders rearrest rate for any kind of offense: 43%
All offenders rearrest rate for any kind of offense: 68%

Source

 

[cinnamonstick]

I work at a facility that houses sex offenders and "true" pedophiles are not rare there at all. The ones are there are supposed to be the worst of the worst. Their crimes are truly horrible. But talking to these guys many seem normal and nice actually which is truly frightening. I worry should some of them get out how long it would be before them reoffend. Many there do not see that there is a problem with what they do. They have terrible coping skills and if they are stress I see them going back to their old habits.
None of the men where I work are guys that just had a GF a few years younger. They are hardcore offenders. Maybe I am too close to see the big picture because of my job. I do know one guy who is on the registery and has one year left to the ten years he needs to be registered, and I will be happy for him when he gets off. I truly beleive he committed his crime. Which was henious....a break in and rape of a woman when he was 18. But is he a danger to society? not that I can see. He is a different person than he was back then. And I do see that the registery makes him feel like leper.
In general I do not feel sorry for the people on the list. No minors should be on there but any adult on there should have know better. People need to take a bit more personal resposibility for their actions

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I work at a facility that houses sex offenders and "true" pedophiles are not rare there at all.

I imagine not.

I meant in the general population.

 

[3113]

The problem, as Liar pointed out, is that individual States get to define what a sex offender is and the restrictions of being on that list.

And the problem there is that they CAN put the 19 year old who had sex with his willing 15 year old girlfriend on that list even if there's no way in HELL he belongs in the same category as the pedophile raping little kids. In this way the list become more of a "black list" than a real list designed to protect the public. It becomes a way, as Selena pointed out, to threaten and punish just about anyone you want to threaten and punish, whether they deserve it or not. And it's way too open to abuses.

There really needs to be a National law that defines offenders who deserve to be put on the list as those proven to be hard core pedophiles and rapists and the laws governing them.

And if you're going to do this, then facilities must be arranged for them as well as, well, AA meetings as it were. Because if you keep a group of men (and it's pretty much all men) stigmatized--no one hiring them, few places to live, etc. then you give them no reason to obey the law and their restrictions. Life outside prison has to be better than inside, or why not break the law? Branding the beggars and throwing them out of the city gates doesn't make them go away. Either kill them or give them employment and a place to stay where they can live and do no harm.

Putting it another way, if your'e going to make them into lepers, you might as well create a leper colony.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Well they had to come from somewhere in the general population. I don't believe that simply because they are not a large portion of the population that they should be treated any less carefully. I'm for reform of the registry to exclude things like statutory cases, but I believe it serves a very definite purpose. Add violent criminals to it, if you like, but if property value is what we're concerned about it's only going to get worse with a more comprehensive registry.

I have a strong internal hang up with exactly what 'doing their time' really is. I realize we set a certain period of time for them to be locked away, but just as there are loopholes that allow non-violent/non-pedophile people to be registered, so too are there loopholes that allow actual pedophiles to receive reduced sentences, early probations, etc. Additionally, what of their victims? Should I feel pity for a registered sex-offender that actually did the crime because no one wants to be his/her neighbor? Sorry. I don't think the victims are ever finished 'doing their time' for the trauma they suffer at the hands of a criminal. Therefore, I'm not likely to have real hard feelings for those responsible.

All of this said, however, I am not blind to the fact that because the registry is ever growing and folks do not want to share community space with criminals, the problem of where they can exist is quickly exceeding current limits. So what's the answer? I don't know. It seems unlikely that an actual community for such registered persons would ever come to be, but it's about the only thing I can think of at the moment. A little like a nudist colony or a retirement community ... except reserved for those persons registered as dangerous.

 

[R. Richard]

Apparently, this was the pedophile's first violent crime.

Boy Found Slain On Golf Course; Pedophile Charged
Suspect Convicted Twice Before

BALTIMORE -- An 11-year-old boy missing since Friday was found slain early Monday on the grounds of a city golf course near his home, and a twice-convicted child sex offender was arrested in his death.

An autopsy was being performed on the body of Irvin Harris.

"The body had suffered a level of decomposition," Detective Donny Moses, a police spokesman, said. "Everything points to the fact that he was actually killed on Friday."

The suspect, Melvin Jones Jr., 52, was arrested Monday afternoon inside a downtown fast food restaurant after police got an anonymous tip that he was there. He was taken into custody without incident, and police expected to charge him with first-degree murder, Moses said. He was charged late Monday with first-degree murder and other charges, according to Nicole Monroe, a police spokeswoman. Bail had not been set late Monday.

Jones' most recent conviction, for a third-degree sex offense, came in 2002, and he told police during questioning "that he was a pedophile who needed help," according to court documents.

Col. Fred Bealefeld, the police department's chief of detectives, described Jones as the family's friend and said there was "every indication" that Irvin's mother knew about Jones' 2002 conviction.

"I'm blaming myself right now," Irvin's mother, Shanda Harris, told WBAL-TV. "By trusting Melvin, now my son is gone."

Jones has a lengthy record dating to 1970, when he was charged with rape, said Joseph Sviatko, a spokesman for the city state's attorney's office. The state declined to prosecute that case, but Jones pleaded guilty in January 2002 to a third-degree sex offense and was sentenced to 10 years in prison, with all but one year suspended. The victim in that case was a 15-year-old boy, Sviatko said.

The victim in the 2002 case met Jones when he was walking home from school, and the two had sex several times over a period of about 18 months, according to court documents.

Jones pleaded guilty to child sexual abuse in 1989 and served just over seven months in prison, Sviatko said. He was also convicted of indecent exposure in 1994, harassment in 1989 and battery in 1988.

In addition to the rape charge, two other charges against Jones were dismissed from court: a second-degree sex offense in 2000 and a third-degree sex offense in 1989.

Jones registered as a sex offender after his 2002 conviction and remains on active probation, Sviatko said. There were no indications he had violated his probation before his arrest.

Detectives found the boy's body around 3:30 a.m. Monday in a densely wooded area on the grounds of Clifton Park Golf Course, out of the sight of golfers, Moses said.

Irvin was last seen by his family Friday around noon, when he left to walk to a nearby grocery store, Moses said.

The legislature this year approved a new law that made sweeping changes to the way child sex offenders are punished in Maryland. The law imposes mandatory minimum sentences for those convicted of the most serious sex crimes against children 13 or under. That aspect of the law would not have applied to Jones.

But the law also requires people convicted of sex crimes against children to check in with the state several times a year and submit DNA samples and annual photographs. Failure to report constitutes a felony.

President George W. Bush signed a law last week that requires child molesters to be listed on a national Internet database and face a felony charge for failing to update their whereabouts.

"Any type of tracking of offenders is important not only as a deterrent to keep an offender from committing a crime, but obviously you can track an offender when they're released back into the community and know whether that person is where he or she needs to be," said Stacie Rumenap, executive director of Stop Child Predators, a Washington-based group that has pushed for such bills in all 50 states.

 

[rgraham666]

As a person suffering from mental illness, and knowing how little people know about mental illness, and knowing people's ability to group disparate charateristics together, I'll say a sex offender's registry scares the living shit out of me.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

As a person suffering from mental illness, and knowing how little people know about mental illness, and knowing people's ability to group disparate charateristics together, I'll say a sex offender's registry scares the living shit out of me.

domino effect...?

pedophilia is the "scary thing dujour"... it could be anything, next, you're right... and 3113's idea of a leper colony for sex offenders is just as scary to me... one more step...

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think the breakdown of family/friend/stranger assault is a bit of a red herring, actually. If the sex offender registries have one good purpose, it's to help families evaluate people who are passing from the "stranger" to "friend" category. To say that most assaults are committed by people known to the victim does not, to me, seem to say much about the validity of registries, other than possibly to confirm that it would be a good thing to know if one's neighbors or acquaintances have committed such a crime. It's not uncommon for offenders to seek out employment, community positions, or friendships with the specific intent of gaining access to children.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I think the breakdown of family/friend/stranger assault is a bit of a red herring, actually. If the sex offender registries have one good purpose, it's to help families evaluate people who are passing from the "stranger" to "friend" category. To say that most assaults are committed by people known to the victim does not, to me, seem to say much about the validity of registries, other than possibly to confirm that it would be a good thing to know if one's neighbors or acquaintances have committed such a crime. It's not uncommon for offenders to seek out employment, community positions, or friendships with the specific intent of gaining access to children.

and yet:

"Col. Fred Bealefeld, the police department's chief of detectives, described Jones as the family's friend and said there was "every indication" that Irvin's mother knew about Jones' 2002 conviction."

the irony...

 

[rgraham666]

domino effect...?

pedophilia is the "scary thing dujour"... it could be anything, next, you're right... and 3113's idea of a leper colony for sex offenders is just as scary to me... one more step...

Scary true story.

Here in Ontario, we were ruled by neo-cons for about a decade. One of their first acts was to cut welfare 23%. They also tightened the rules for disability pensions and stopped funding public housing. And they did away with rent control.

The result was a huge increase in homelessness. I was one of their number for a couple of months.

Homelessness became a 'problem'. The man in charge quit. And the provincial political party held a leadership convention.

One of the aspirants came up with the following solution for homelessness. The homeless were to wear 'special badges' so they could be spotted easily. There would be 'special constables' hired to round them up. And 'special camps' would be built where the homeless would be put to work so they could be contributers rather than a drain.

He didn't say but I suspect the uplifting motto "Work Makes You Free" would be above the gates of the 'special camps'.

He finished second. And he's now Canada's Finance Minister.