The new number one

[quietpoet]

It doesn't matter

what any of us think... The people with the power to change a system will do what they want without a lot of consideration to those who aren't in their circle. This is the truth of virtually ALL poetry sites. I have seen a lot of constructive criticism over the past few weeks, and the only change was unilateral, 20 votes. You can never change the subjectivity of poetry; you can never change the ego of the poet. Unless you can find a the miracle cure for that, you will never have a system that is completely valid and fair to all contributors.

However, having said that, if you eliminate the voting aspect completely, and concentrate on developing friends and sharing what we have in common, we CAN have a great site that encourages us to learn and practice. Isn't that what it is all about?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

what any of us think... The people with the power to change a system will do what they want without a lot of consideration to those who aren't in their circle. This is the truth of virtually ALL poetry sites. I have seen a lot of constructive criticism over the past few weeks, and the only change was unilateral, 20 votes.

I'm sorry, but - again - what are you talking about? lol

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Maybe if we had something like this as a basis to back up our comments, voting and commenting would turn into a worthwhile exercise for all parties.

I think those are good guidelines to get a person started. Thanks for posting it, Wild. There are a few more ideas I will borough from the SDC and post that thread for focused critique.

 

[CharleyH]

I'm sorry, but - again - what are you talking about? lol

I am guilty, I know so .... to redirect this thread back to the original matter at hand - this is not ABOUT VOTES it IS about a poem.

Can you post Neo's poem again, please. Lauren?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Can you post Neo's poem again, please. Lauren?

There. I'd love to see what you - and the rest of us - have to say.

 

[twelveoone]

neo, so no misunderstandings, what you wrote, I realize was not intended to be a "great poem", I write enough doggeral (here I am refering to my work only) to know intent and the audience. What was done was a pleasant piece for an audience, it was popular, nothing wrong with that.

 

[CharleyH]

There. I'd love to see what you - and the rest of us - have to say.

Sasebo I remember you

OK - a visual poem cannot be separated in my mind from the words, which makes it multi-layered) so I will take it as such. But I need to break it into parts first and talk out loud before I can hope to piece it as a whole.

Immediately, I am, in the first line, lead to believe 2 things: the first is how the author is being sarcastic. How can anyone NOT forget? The second is the setting up of a dichotomy. Here we have a city within a city ... a city that made the call to attack Pearl Harbour, a city that was itself destroyed by a nuclear bomb, and yet is now a military base for both Japanese and American. Violent and yet peaceful.

in Saki

perhaps not to the poet to go with the further choices, but every choice conscious or not means something to me. And in this I am picky. There are many meanings for saki and since the visuals point to something peaceful and sensual, in opposition to the first line, and since the city is duality ... although maybe a reference to the greater city of Nagasaki, and yet since it is not used as a proper noun with a capital, I need to take it to mean a 'thing', not a name, and in the way it is written I can only see it being a ref to Nagasaki and also though I feel a leaning toward the drink in this case ... it would be spelled wrong, so I need to lean to what is here - saki - part city.

The superimposed nude woman in the background has an effect. As does the tree in this respect. The woman is full - full breasted, the branches are barren. Again a dichotomy, but one that meets visually for the mere fact that they appear juxtaposed. The words take precedence though ... they are the third layer overlaying the images, joining the two.

Drenched

There is duality to the term. At first I think sensually, particularly with the font style used and set apart from the rather regimented (aside from S) first line and all of its connotations. Drenched could also be sarcastic at this point, since it could also be in response to the fire shower rained upon Nagasaki in WW2. If people misintepret saki t mean sake? It takes on even greater significance, and I think the poet plays with us here.

Although, that almost seems too brilliant to me ... From duality to duality ... in saki maybe drunk .... and yet ....

blind to

in conjunction with ....

glowing ginzas

both sexually used as a coin perhaps to buy - in essence a whore of cities bought and sold, but not, I also see in context the duality, I think it ... another city destroyed and re-built as well. I am reminded of the two visual images here. The duality.

Plum trees

another transition, and a major one in the middle of the poem. It is the only different font that breaks the poem. It breaks it because of its difference,and also from the two opposing fonts that are not the same - one regimented - the other flowing. This choice jagged, and yet appears as a Japanese lettering. The switch is cultural based - not erotic.

with sugar flowers
blooming sex

It brings to mind those sugar plums dancing in christmas heads, but sugar flowers - being the delicate artistry from Japanese culture culinary and artistically, or otherwise.

and a sweet girl
named Setsu

Hm. Setsu - I do not know the word, but I am lead to believe it relates to Sasebo because it is the only word that has an s capitalised like the beginning. I am lead to believe it goes back to that - whether I know the word or not. I would have liked a more definitive thing here. Perhaps it is a Japanese word? As it is written, I can only guess it a proper name of a woman/ or city untouched by the ravages of this way or that, war/or peace - but is a place in the middle, maybe a final transition into what the poet believes is the place where lovers meet? Perhaps a place before Sasebo and Nagasaki to live as one within eachother, or where Americans and Japanese do? Or where there was harmony before the bomb.

I do believe it is something heavenly to the poet, and I do believe that the purpose of the words over two opposite images, the unique transitions in the poem? Belies a truth, more political than sensual.

In these ways I love the poem. I am left open ended by the poet from my POV, and this is never a bad thing to me - it simply forces me to look for an answer within myself, and my interpretation.

Thanks, Lauren - for pointing the poem out. Also thanks Neo, for allowing us to go on about it from each of our unique POVs.





Sensual? Sure - under a guise of something else because of choice words in my opinion ad in conjunction with the fonts and images.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

what any of us think... The people with the power to change a system will do what they want without a lot of consideration to those who aren't in their circle. This is the truth of virtually ALL poetry sites. I have seen a lot of constructive criticism over the past few weeks, and the only change was unilateral, 20 votes. You can never change the subjectivity of poetry; you can never change the ego of the poet. Unless you can find a the miracle cure for that, you will never have a system that is completely valid and fair to all contributors.

However, having said that, if you eliminate the voting aspect completely, and concentrate on developing friends and sharing what we have in common, we CAN have a great site that encourages us to learn and practice. Isn't that what it is all about?

quote = Lauren
I'm sorry, but - again - what are you talking about? lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I find humor in this cause I understand quiet poet, yet I don';t understand Lauren,

you want to low vote poems on the top 100 list and rearrange it till what, you have a poem on the top list. How much reconstructing are we talking about here. Ten thousand plus poems here at lit and you don't think the top one hundred should be 4. something or better.

this is putting more of a dierect finger on voting yet you say you took your voting off so what does it matter to you? Now that you can't recieve votes revote others? where is the logic with this? as quiet poet was saying ...is that it is not about the numbers in ratings but the number of poets you share poetry with.


If your wanting to restructure Lits reader input what guidelines or article will you dictate to make this so? I have had little time to read and vote as I had in the past, so I should start reading again and be the balance of the low and continue to vote high or not vote at all. Each of us have our own way of voting and I can say that if a poem is good why cant it have ten 5 votes? Because yours does not? or you truely feel that the top poem at lit should have a 4.0 rating so that poets know that there is a harsh voting system here. like I said I dont see it, as QP said, it is not the ratings but the freinds we make and share poetry with that counts. my 2 cents...

 

[CharleyH]

neo, so no misunderstandings, what you wrote, I realize was not intended to be a "great poem", I write enough doggeral (here I am refering to my work only) to know intent and the audience. What was done was a pleasant piece for an audience, it was popular, nothing wrong with that.

The problem friend is ... you see, but don't look. Not meant to be derogatory, just an observation.

 

[CharleyH]

quote = Lauren
I'm sorry, but - again - what are you talking about? lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I find humor in this cause I understand quiet poet, yet I don';t understand Lauren,

you want to low vote poems on the top 100 list and rearrange it till what, you have a poem on the top list. How much reconstructing are we talking about here. Ten thousand plus poems here at lit and you don't think the top one hundred should be 4. something or better.

this is putting more of a dierect finger on voting yet you say you took your voting off so what does it matter to you? Now that you can't recieve votes revote others? where is the logic with this? as quiet poet was saying ...is that it is not about the numbers in ratings but the number of poets you share poetry with.


If your wanting to restructure Lits reader input what guidelines or article will you dictate to make this so? I have had little time to read and vote as I had in the past, so I should start reading again and be the balance of the low and continue to vote high or not vote at all. Each of us have our own way of voting and I can say that if a poem is good why cant it have ten 5 votes? Because yours does not? or you truely feel that the top poem at lit should have a 4.0 rating so that poets know that there is a harsh voting system here. like I said I dont see it, as QP said, it is not the ratings but the freinds we make and share poetry with that counts. my 2 cents...

Not what she is talking about Art. Can't you let go? Read Neo's poem, and analyse? THIS IS what the thread is about. She is just telling you that she is trying to choose them in a certain way that favours few.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

okay, sorry charley

I wanted to read the thread and be objective when I heard that this was posted, a lot of posts in the beginning touched on reconstruction of the top list and I was curious why.

As you can see this thread touched on that subject. Have fun and enjoy your poetry disecting, nice job by the way ...<grin>

thanks
Art~

I'm not assuming that is the case for every poem, or even for most, 1201. But you know that happens. If you have issue with the word "friend", replace it with "fan", or "idolater", or "people truly thankful for the back patting they received". The result is the same: in many cases, it's not the poem being rated, it's the poet - or the person.


I agree with most of what you say here, and of course I agree with this as well. Sasebo is a good poem, but it is not the best on that list, nor is it Neo's best by a long shot. It's a perfect illustration of how dead and meaningless the top-rated list is, however. It is rated 4.90 after 21 votes because it is a non-offending, non-threatening competent illustrated poem. My only criteria were being posted for over 6 weeks, and having received a minimum of 20 votes. Not that long ago, there would be well more than 50 poems on the 100 top-rated meeting these standards. They are not as unrealistic as some believe.


Here's a challenge for you - and for anyone else who wants to accept it: go to the top list right now, read each of the 100 poems there, and vote on all of them. Vote on all of them, and vote truthfully, with the score you really think the poem deserves. If it is at all possible, don't even look at the author's name or at other people's comments.

All it takes is for one or two people to do that. And then visit the top list again and spot the differences.

 

[twelveoone]

*

****gone

 

[twelveoone]

The problem friend is ... you see, but don't look. Not meant to be derogatory, just an observation.

and you talk, and you talk...

 

[quietpoet]

Missed point

I was just talking about the system we have here, which is where the thread started. I can't live online so maybe I miss some of the middle. my interpretation of a topic is just that. As long as it is part of it, comments are welcome IMHO. My response, Lauren, to you, was self evident. The rulers make the rules. It had nothing to do with "Sasebo", which I think is a nice poem, with a nice picture. Is it perfect, a 5? I don't think so, but I haven't seen many poems that I would say are perfect, including ALL of mine. We have a lot of very good poets here, but the vast majority of poetry isn't about making money OR fighting, it is about sharing our thoughts.

Politics will kill the joy.

John

 

[CharleyH]

okay, sorry charley

I wanted to read the thread and be objective when I heard that this was posted, a lot of posts in the beginning touched on reconstruction of the top list and I was curious why.

As you can see this thread touched on that subject. Have fun and enjoy your poetry disecting, nice job by the way ...<grin>

thanks
Art~

Then you saw what you wanted, and not what was said. Sorry, Art. I saw her trying to be her, and how she was choosing a poem. Can we talk about the poem at hand? I gave my take. What is yours? Good or ill? Do you agree with my interpretation, or no? I am interested in 'your' opinion about Neo's poem, more than you guff with Lauren.

 

[CharleyH]

and you talk, and you talk...

And so do you, but you refuse to talk and talk on this thread about the subject at hand, except to BS?

So you have no thought? I was being nice. I could have pointed to your contadictions. I did not. Either get off your supposed "I am into critical analysis" ass and post something about the poem, or get off the thread? LOL

Is this direct enough?

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Then you saw what you wanted, and not what was said. Sorry, Art. I saw her trying to be her, and how she was choosing a poem. Can we talk about the poem at hand? I gave my take. What is yours? Good or ill? Do you agree with my interpretation, or no? I am interested in 'your' opinion about Neo's poem, more than you guff with Lauren.

Oh charley that is not a fair question, <grin>
(do I need to look up guff >>>is it kinky )<chcuckleboned>
play fair <bows humble> (~_~) it is no hidden secret...
neo is one of my favorite poets here at lit ~


his illustrations are unique matched by his well woven words
a gem of a poem by a very nice and talented poet. <bigrin>

 

[CharleyH]

Oh charley that is not a fair question, <grin>
(do I need to look up guff >>>is it kinky )<chcuckleboned>
play fair <bows humble> (~_~) it is no hidden secret...
neo is one of my favorite poets here at lit ~


his illustrations are unique matched by his well woven words
a gem of a poem by a very nice and talented poet. <bigrin>

It only matters, Art - your opinion. Do not be so afraid of it. Analyse, or criticise. People may agree, they may not ... but, oh the beauty of subjectivity and ideas! And being able to defend them.

And, I know you have more to say than that!

 

[BooMerengue]

I think maybe I'll leave here, too. But not for the reason one might think. I looked at the Top list and voted on some I had never seen before, and brought a really good poet down about a dozen notches and feel shitty for doing it. Wtf does it matter? I never look at my own votes, so why give a shit about someone elses? (I'm talking to myself here- no one else.)

Nope. I wanna leave cause A) I doubt I'll ever write anything as lovely as Neo's Illustrated poem, and B) I know I'll never write anything that will evoke such a critique as Charley just gave. Whew!! You just blew me out of my chair, girl. Nice job.

Maybe I'll just sit back and lurk awhile.

Yep.

Thats what I'll do.

Y'all carry on!

 

[CharleyH]

I think maybe I'll leave here, too. But not for the reason one might think. I looked at the Top list and voted on some I had never seen before, and brought a really good poet down about a dozen notches and feel shitty for doing it. Wtf does it matter? I never look at my own votes, so why give a shit about someone elses? (I'm talking to myself here- no one else.)

Nope. I wanna leave cause A) I doubt I'll ever write anything as lovely as Neo's Illustrated poem, and B) I know I'll never write anything that will evoke such a critique as Charley just gave. Whew!! You just blew me out of my chair, girl. Nice job.

Maybe I'll just sit back and lurk awhile.

Yep.

Thats what I'll do.

Y'all carry on!

First - you write as good as any of us.

Second: Its only my take :| and I love yours, and everyone else's. I think everyone does!

That was my first impression. It never means I am RIGHT! lol. I love your POV. I can read anything - even my own! LOL (and my own to detriment!)

what is your take? I am just me bound in my take, or opinion. Please if I beg?

 

[BooMerengue]

First - you write as good as any of us.

Second: Its only my take :| and I love yours, and everyone else's. I think everyone does!

That was my first impression. It never means I am RIGHT! lol. I love your POV. I can read anything - even my own! LOL (and my own to detriment!)

what is your take? I am just me bound. Please if I beg?

Honey? Are you serious? Neo doesn't want me anywhere near his poem! First of all, I didn't even see the nude in the background til you mentioned her and then I got my glasses and Tadaaa!! There she was!! (Remind me to tell you about Happy Scrotum someday!)

I liked it a lot on first view. Heres why. I thought it flowed nicely from thought to thought. No jerkiness common to poems fit in tight places. The color and texture made me feel peaceful even before I started to read. It made me think of a WW2 veteran looking back at a peaceful interlude. I thought maybe sasebo was a Japanese word for a park or a meadow. Anyway, I just liked it!


See?? [SIZE=-2]this is why I don't like to comment[/SIZE]

shoot me.

 

[CharleyH]

Honey? Are you serious? Neo doesn't want me anywhere near his poem! First of all, I didn't even see the nude in the background til you mentioned her and then I got my glasses and Tadaaa!! There she was!! (Remind me to tell you about Happy Scrotum someday!)

I liked it a lot on first view. Heres why. I thought it flowed nicely from thought to thought. No jerkiness common to poems fit in tight places. The color and texture made me feel peaceful even before I started to read. It made me think of a WW2 veteran looking back at a peaceful interlude. I thought maybe sasebo was a Japanese word for a park or a meadow. Anyway, I just liked it!


See?? [SIZE=-2]this is why I don't like to comment[/SIZE]

shoot me.

I think your take is beautiful. Can I further ask? What do you mean by "no jerkiness common to poems fit in tight places?"

 

[champagne1982]

charleyH and all;

Your commentary on neo's poem really inspired me to do a little more reading on Japanese history, reference Nagasaki and the word/name Setsu.

With a friend's help, I discovered this, forming another tie to the word 'saki'

Sadako Sasaki, a young Japanese girl, on the threshold of adolescence, developed leukemia in 1955, from the effects of radiation caused by the bombing of Hiroshima. While hospitalized, her closest friend reminded her of the Japanese legend that if she folded a thousand paper cranes, the gods might grant her wish to be well again. With hope and determination, Sadako began folding.

But, my googling didn't stop there! I went on to find a meaning for "setsu". It is the Japanese word for "doctrine", I believe. This is tightly tied into philosophy/zen/martial arts. The samurai had a school in Nagasaki, the atomic bomb destroyed it and the nuclear labs where the Japanese were developing their own nuclear device.

Ironic.

Another tie into Japanese culture is the westernisation of school girls through Anime and manga -- that silhouette is a wonderful illustration reminiscent of the forms used in hentai.

So many layers beyond the obvious 3 of woman, tree and poem.

Thank you, neo.

 

[BooMerengue]

I think your take is beautiful. Can I further ask? What do you mean by "no jerkiness common to poems fit in tight places?"

Honey? You can ask me anything you like. Just don't get pissed when I answer! lol

I meant that sometimes there isn't a lot of room on/in a photo to put some poems, so it looks to me sometimes that key words are left out and so the read isn't nise and smooth!

 

[CharleyH]

charleyH and all;

Your commentary on neo's poem really inspired me to do a little more reading on Japanese history, reference Nagasaki and the word/name Setsu.

With a friend's help, I discovered this, forming another tie to the word 'saki' But, my googling didn't stop there! I went on to find a meaning for "setsu". It is the Japanese word for "doctrine", I believe. This is tightly tied into philosophy/zen/martial arts. The samurai had a school in Nagasaki, the atomic bomb destroyed it and the nuclear labs where the Japanese were developing their own nuclear device.

Ironic.

Another tie into Japanese culture is the westernisation of school girls through Anime and manga -- that silhouette is a wonderful illustration reminiscent of the forms used in hentai.

So many layers beyond the obvious 3 of woman, tree and poem.

Thank you, neo.

I was trying Very cool, Carrie. What do you see in the poem?

I would love for Neo to tell us we were too deep. But this post confirms a dichotomy that I do see in the poem? I could not place the word though, or the end.

Does anyone see dichotomy? Hell, does anyone see what I do? LOL, Before Neo talks!