The New Monastics

[4est_4est_Gump]

...

In reaction to the growing globalization of the Roman Empire, elite corruption, the banality of bread-and-circuses, and the end of the agrarian Italian Republic, the Stoics opted out, choosing instead a reasoned detachment from contemporary life. Some, like the worldly court philosopher Seneca, seemed hypocritical; others, such as the later emperor Marcus Aurelius, lived a double life of imperial engagement and mental detachment.

Classical impassiveness established the foundations for the later monastic Christians, who in more dangerous times increasingly saw the world around them as incompatible with the world to come — and therefore they saw engagement as an impediment to their own Christian belief.

More and more Americans today are becoming Stoic dropouts. They are not illiberal, and certainly not reactionaries, racists, xenophobes, or homophobes. They’re simply exhausted by our frenzied culture.

They don’t like lectures from the privileged and the wealthy on the pitfalls of privilege and wealth. In response, they don’t hike out to monasteries, fall into fetal positions, or write Meditations. Instead, they have checked out mentally from American popular entertainment, sports, and the progressive cultural project in general.

...

Victor Davis Hanson

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/445934/print

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"When everything is politicized, everything is monotonous; nothing is interesting. There are only so many ways one can express existential hatred for Trump, turn the Aztecs into the Founding Fathers, or show disrespect for the National Anthem... So millions tune out and retreat to reading what was written before 1980, or to watching movies of a past age or seeking their own tribal ties of the mind."

 

[hashtag46]

Wow. Such a gem of an article and thread 4est, thanks.
Parts of it also resonate with many of my acquaintances' experiences.
Things are a bit different here because it's a different society. But the mood is similar: many people feel increasingly that they are asked to mould their thinking and behaviors to an artificial system of values and beliefs that are at odds with a healthy and fulfilling way of being. So just like many americans, a lot of them have become mentally disengaged from the overarching system.


__________________________________________________________________________________
I just extracted a few lines for my own future reference.


"1.In reaction to the growing globalization of the Roman Empire, elite corruption, the banality of bread-and-circuses, and the end of the agrarian Italian Republic,
- The Stoics opted out, choosing instead a reasoned detachment from contemporary life.
Some, like the worldly court philosopher Seneca, seemed hypocritical;
others, such as the later emperor Marcus Aurelius, lived a double life of imperial engagement and mental detachment.
- Classical impassiveness established the foundations for the later monastic Christians, who in more dangerous times increasingly saw the world around them as incompatible with the world to come - and therefore they saw engagement as an impediment to their own Christian belief.


2.More and more Americans today are becoming Stoic dropouts. They are not illiberal, and certainly not reactionaries, racists, xenophobes, or homophobes. They’re simply exhausted by our frenzied culture.
- They have checked out mentally from American popular entertainment, sports, and the progressive cultural project in general.

Millions tune out and retreat to reading what was written before 1980, or to watching movies of a past age or seeking their own tribal ties of the mind. 'Monasteries of the mind' are an effort to reconnect with the past and disengage psychologically from the present.
- They have mentally moved to mental mountaintops or inaccessible valleys, where they can live in the past or dream of the future, but certainly not dwell in the here and now."

 

[hashtag46]

"Assimilation is cultural appropriation. " (quote)

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I fit the description.

I went cold-turkey on the NFL this year and I simply refuse to listen to any new music that is not Country and I don't watch this crap they call movies. I'm more and more not watching any sports and instead watching Turner Classic Movies and recycling through my classic and Japanese DVD collection. Plus, as we all know, I do a lot of reading of the writings of dead people.

 

[hashtag46]

I think that what's uniting a lot of societies (besides the awarenness of the 0.01% ers and corporations and the propaganda and techniques of manipullation -- old news --)
-- is the increasing awareness that "the system" created a vacuum both in common sense and spirituality.

Not only that civic education is getting more and more indoctrinating, but it's also becoming increasingly shallow.

Until now, a lot of -normal- people tried to adapt to the things that were imposed on them. But now things have started to become too out of hand and people are disengaging in order to keep their health intact.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I truly believe that it is the internet which exposes so many people to so many viewpoints and gives them the ability to chase down topics outside of a news media that lives in a bubble and used to be able to spoon-feed them the truth.

In the past, people might have disagreed or felt on some gut level that this or that was neither true or the majority opinion, but they were isolated by the views of only those whom they came in contact with. Now, we have a much larger community and greater access to a variety of thinking and VDH is one example of that. Sans internet, pretty much the only way i would be able to read him would be to subscribe to The National Review.

 

[hashtag46]

I truly believe that it is the internet which exposes so many people to so many viewpoints and gives them the ability to chase down topics outside of a news media that lives in a bubble and used to be able to spoon-feed them the truth.

In the past, people might have disagreed or felt on some gut level that this or that was neither true or the majority opinion, but they were isolated by the views of only those whom they came in contact with. Now, we have a much larger community and greater access to a variety of thinking and VDH is one example of that. Sans internet, pretty much the only way i would be able to read him would be to subscribe to The National Review.

Exactly. That fully applies to me too.

For example, I lived for many years with a nagging sense that I don't like how things are.

I tried reading stuff from libraries but things only started to fall into place after I discovered the wealth of online talks uploaded on youtube (for me youtube is the 8th miracle in this sense).
Without trying to kiss ass: the second one that made me understand how life really works, was this forum.

Pitty that I was such an old bloomer with regards to the net.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

As a rule wars erupt over economic struggles when one side or the other strives to impose its system on the other. Our Revolution was a contest between the East India Tea Company and American Main Street, our Civil War was a contest between the railrods and steamships, the present contest is between China and our Main Street. Main Street will win.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Some years back (shortly after 9-11) I had an epiphany based upon Ishmael's recommendation that I read Wilhelm von Humboldt's On the Limits of State Action. Following also the writings of the Founders I delved into John Stewart Mill and eventually into Hayek, von Mises and Bastiat (not to mention Wicksteed et. al.). This reshaped my thinking about my world and its fundamentals. Then I heard Neal Boortz (Libertarian) quoting some Eric Hoffer on his show, and I picked up some of his books...

I've come a long way since the days of two (twice, morning and evening) daily newspapers and two networks, in black and white, and the public library as my only sources of information and news. The Fairness Doctrine even prevented any alternative viewpoints on the radio.

 

[Disgustipated]

Some years back (shortly after 9-11) I had an epiphany based upon Ishmael's recommendation

Bro!!!

 

[hashtag46]

When I saw Luk's name on the board, I came in guns blazing to tell him to fuck off and stop trolling such a good thread.
But I hate to admit: that was funny!

 

[Wrong Element]

Some years back (shortly after 9-11) I had an epiphany based upon Ishmael's recommendation that I read Wilhelm von Humboldt's On the Limits of State Action. Following also the writings of the Founders I delved into John Stewart Mill and eventually into Hayek, von Mises and Bastiat (not to mention Wicksteed et. al.). This reshaped my thinking about my world and its fundamentals. Then I heard Neal Boortz (Libertarian) quoting some Eric Hoffer on his show, and I picked up some of his books...

This is scarier than Go Ask Alice.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

When I saw Luk's name on the board, I came in guns blazing to tell him to fuck off and stop trolling such a good thread.
But I hate to admit: that was funny!

I have him on eternal/terminal ignore, so don't bring the little shit to my attention.

It's what he craves.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

This is scarier than Go Ask Alice.

Thank you for your opinion snowflake...

 

[Ishmael]

Add to those observations that the American left is hell bent on creating a popularly elected "Imperial" presidency. The creation of which necessarily leads to the destruction of the Republic right along with the Constitution. More and more of the population looks to the president as a purveyor of goodies and arbiter of what is fair.

Meanwhile the stoics mentioned in the article are paying less and less attention to local and state issues. Leaving, especially in the more populous states, small special interest segments of the population determining what monies get spent on what special group. Large chunks of cash are being spent on fruitless and wasteful 'feel good' projects while much needed investments in existing infrastructure go unaddressed.

The whole point of the Federal system we were given was to push spending decisions down to the lowest possible level where the electorate would have the largest possible say in taxation and spending. When the 16th amendment was ratified the handwriting was on the wall for the ultimate destruction of the Federal system. Projects always cost more than what the politicians tell the people when soliciting support (they willfully lie through their teeth) and the cost overruns are then used as an excuse to increase taxes. The special interest minorities get the projects approved leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.

Ishmael

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Theres a real world and a bull shit world. The real world is what it is. The bull shit world are the delusions of laws and constitutions and nifty ideas by scholars and other frauds. Alan Dershowitz pointed it out to me. All the happy horse shit isn't t the real world.

 

[hashtag46]

I have him on eternal/terminal ignore, so don't bring the little shit to my attention.

It's what he craves.

Sorry.
My view of his trolling softened somehow because he seems to have mellowed a bit over the last few months (both under his root account and under his -probable- alt.). But who knows how long it will last… .

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Add to those observations that the American left is hell bent on creating a popularly elected "Imperial" presidency. The creation of which necessarily leads to the destruction of the Republic right along with the Constitution. More and more of the population looks to the president as a purveyor of goodies and arbiter of what is fair.

Meanwhile the stoics mentioned in the article are paying less and less attention to local and state issues. Leaving, especially in the more populous states, small special interest segments of the population determining what monies get spent on what special group. Large chunks of cash are being spent on fruitless and wasteful 'feel good' projects while much needed investments in existing infrastructure go unaddressed.

The whole point of the Federal system we were given was to push spending decisions down to the lowest possible level where the electorate would have the largest possible say in taxation and spending. When the 16th amendment was ratified the handwriting was on the wall for the ultimate destruction of the Federal system. Projects always cost more than what the politicians tell the people when soliciting support (they willfully lie through their teeth) and the cost overruns are then used as an excuse to increase taxes. The special interest minorities get the projects approved leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.

Ishmael

Very good.

I feel that most of their current angst is based in the realization that that which they created is now being possessed by "the enemy."

As Gruber confessed, we relied on the ignorance of the American voter.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Sorry.
My view of his trolling softened somehow because he seems to have become moe moderate over the last few months (both under his root account and under his -probable- alt.). But who knows how long it will last… .

Bingo. It will only last until he can get of the ignore lists of his enemies.

He doesn't need an advocate at this point, his previous body of work is too impressive and extensive to ignore.

 

[Ishmael]

Very good.

I feel that most of their current angst is based in the realization that that which they created is now being possessed by "the enemy."

As Gruber confessed, we relied on the ignorance of the American voter.

Exactly so. Once you have an Imperial Presidency you are going to have the Nero's and Caligula's right along with the Hadrian's and the Marcus Aurelius's. And that necessarily translates into an never ending cycle of assassinations and civil wars.

Ishmael

 

[Disgustipated]

Bingo. It will only last until he can get of the ignore lists of his enemies.
.

You have 75 names retired due to this exact fact. Too bad your sorry ass projection doesn't work on others, dummy.

​

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We enjoyed the rule of law up until Woodrow Wilson, since then we have been tending to the rule of man and the mentality of mob rule.


Historically, it would seem that the mob never learns the lesson: Be wary of what you wish for...

 

[Ishmael]

We enjoyed the rule of law up until Woodrow Wilson, since then we have been tending to the rule of man and the mentality of mob rule.


Historically, it would seem that the mob never learns the lesson: Be wary of what you wish for...

The 16th and 17th amendments must go.

Ishmael

 

[Rightguide]

Victor Davis Hanson

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/445934/print

I think Hansen is correct. Much of the demographic he mentions probably came out to vote for Trump in one last effort to reverse the cultural decline they've watch metastasize over recent years. My sense is, we're too late. Not because of Trump but because the administrative state is too big, and it's powerful enough to defy an elected President and their congressional overseers with near impunity. When they defy our representatives they defy us and short of millions of us showing up in DC to take it apart in detail nothing is going to change much. No election result seems to diminish the power of the Deep State. We have the rest of the year to find out.