The new deviant class

[JamesSD]

When I was personell manager at my former job, I used to insist that everybody actually took a 10 minutes per hour break and got up from their desks. Smoke, get some water, get a breath of fresh air, stretch, shag a co-worker in the bathroom, I cared not what. Those that did this very soon began to be more effective during the time they actually sat down and worked. So even if they worked less time, they got more done, and were much less tired by the end of the day.

Sounds like you were a good boss!

 

[Darkniciad]

Um. No. Didn't I make myself clear? You said it yourself in an earlier post even. It's an allergy, not an aquired distaste. It's not just an "offensice odor". I don't get insulted, I get physically ill.

Cigarette smoke, even the parts of it lingering in clothes and breath after a recently burned one, is endangering a fair amount of people's health. Including mine. On a bad day, and the wrong situation (stuck in an elevator comes to mind), I could get the whole breathing-through-a-straw asthmatic enchilada going. Just like stong perfume can do for many others.

Or peanuts for that matter. Although I've never heard of anyone actually being endangered by that short of direct contact or eating. But I'm sure there are extreme cases of that too.

And I repeat: How about a guy covered in six months old mayonnaise, sitting down next to you on the bus? Would you think, if it came to that, that he or you should change seats?

I'm not really trying to be harsh about your situation, although I really don't have a frame of reference since I've never found anything I'm allergic to. I don't even get poison ivy or itch from mosquito bites.

When the guy saw you starting to get sick, he should have moved. It's just good manners. In fact, with Bird Flu in the news, it's probably good sense. Somebody starts choking up next to me, I'M GONE! ( Please note, I'm joking here and not all that panicked about bird flu )

The story is just a sharp contrast to the beginning and end of your first post, and really is almost a complete contradiction.

As to the Mayo:

Adding the component of the age implies that it has rotted and stinks. That is why I was talking about odors. If something stinks, I move. If the source of the stink moves, there is no gurantee it will move far enough away that I won't smell it. If *I* move, I know I'm going to get away from it, or at least to the least stinky place possible.

If I was allergic to it, I'd do the same thing, for the same reason. Simple logic.

It is public transportation, and I have no more rights than stinky joe next to me. Unless there is a rule that "Thou shalt not board when coated in old mayonaisse," I have no right to tell him to move. He has a duty, under the laws of common decency, to do so, but I can't force him to follow those laws.

 

[SeaCat]

Oh how many times have we wandered down this slippery slope?

Do I smoke? Yes I do. I smoke Cigars. (Garcia Vega Minatures if you please.) I smoke them in the car, and I smoke them on my patio. I do not smoke them in the morning before work, even though there have been times when I would have loved to light one up.

I also drink beer and Tequila.

I do not drink or smoke before work.

On the other hand strong perfumes do jam my sinuses solid.

I have received multiple complaints about my deoderants, body washes etc. They seem to effect my patients and co-workers. I have tried many deoderants but have not been able to find a solution. (You do not want to be downwind of me after eight hours if I haven't worn deoderant.) I have even been written up because of this. And yet, if I complain about my co-workers perfumes I am ridiculed. What gives?

As I said I smoke on my patio. One of my neighbors didn't like my smokng on my patio. He complained about it to the park manager. I receieved a written complaint about it. My neighbor has parties until late in the morning, often until 0500. It is not uncommon for my wife and I to smell the stench of their weed and other drugs of choice. I retorted, in writing that if I received another complaint like this I wouls start filing complaints about the noise, the trash and the drugs.

The complaints stopped.

Cat

 

[3113]

There was an interesting article in my morning paper today.

I understand why this article resonated, Rob, but I'm sorry...it kinda non-news to me. You name it the "new" deviant class, but when Europeans first brought back tobacco and started smoking there were a lot of objections to them...they were a deviant class. Women smokers in the 19th century were a deviant class. Being "anti-smoker" is hardly new. People drinking coffee were a deviant class once. And those who drink liquor--alchoholics or not--have been considered deviants. They still are in Islamic countries.

And if we're talking about people prefering "heathly people" over unhealthy as the article so woefully bemoans.... (snort!) Please! as if this is anything new!

Look at the fairytales. Beautiful = good, ugly = bad. Hello? The ugly, strange and unheathful have always been pariahs. Do we need to talk of Jesus and the lepers? How about circus sideshows or...HEY, how about all the stories you see written here about HEATHY, young men and women who everone wants to have sex with?

Employers want healthy, good looking workers. Popular culture wants healthy, good looking heroes and stars. And people want healthy, good looking partners.

Nothing new or surprising or shocking about it.

 

[FallingToFly]

I can sympathize with those who have allergies to cigarette smoke, my mother has them. Under no circumstances would I smoke in a car or a room, or hell, even the screen porch, with her present. I don't smoke with my kids nearby. If I'm with a non-smoker, I remove myself from their immediate presence (ten feet or more is space is available) before I light up, or I don't light up.

For a very long time, I smoked only clove cigarettes. Sampoerna Xtras, black and gold, with a very smooth, mellow taste and scent like rose and clove incense. Everyone always complimented me on my perfume- not my smoke- my perfume. I don't wear perfume, unless I'm going out to dinner with my husband and want to make sure he thinks about sex the whole time- then I spritz on some Amarige.

I am deathly allergic to two perfumes; Tabu and Giorgio Red Door. If someone is wearing them, I have to move away, because they make my throat close up, my head pound, and if I'm forced to stay close, I will pass out from not being able to breathe. I turn a lovely shade of lavender.

I will always, politely, explain that I'm sorry, I'm allergic to their perfume, I'm not trying to be rude. Most people have no issue with this.

I'm aware that cigarette smoke leaves a scent. Some leave more than others- I chose my brand of poison with this in mind. I have peppermints everywhere. I carry baby wipes with a pleasant scent in my car, and keep my hair up to minimize the smoke that gets into it. I keep my hand holding my cigarette out my window and away from my body. Most people are extremely surprised to learn that I smoke- I don't usually smell like a smoker. (Barn work is a different matter- can't avoid it there simply because of the inplausibilities of mucking stalls one-handed.)

If I'm asked by someone not to smoke around them- I won't. It's a simple courtesy. I won't drink around them either, if they ask it, or wear perfume if it bothers them (I have one friend who can't abide perfumes at all, and gets violently ill from them). I try to be polite. It's the way I was raised, the way I'm raising my kids.

However, I get extremely peeved when people start accusing me of endangering their health by smoking in my car or on my front porch. I don't smoke in restaraunts, unless there is a smoking section of patio. I seldom smoke in bars- I'm out on the dance floor. And I sure as hell don't smoke around children, mine or anyone else's- I literally will move as far as I safely can (by safely I mean- I need to be able to see them and hear them clearly for supervision purposes) to avoid that.

You know what- the non-smokers of this world do just as many dangerous, life-threatening things to US and we may possibly do to THEM- but we take all the flak. Fine, whatever.

But I promise you, wait until it's your turn. They'll outlaw cigarettes, and then alcohol. And then they'll start with weapons, foods, cars, sex, and finally children. Because those are all dangerous things.

Wonder what happens then. Or was I the only one who thought Demolition Man was... hmm, how to say it. More prophetic than amusing?

 

[Aurora Black]

But I promise you, wait until it's your turn. They'll outlaw cigarettes, and then alcohol. And then they'll start with weapons, foods, cars, sex, and finally children. Because those are all dangerous things.

Wonder what happens then. Or was I the only one who thought Demolition Man was... hmm, how to say it. More prophetic than amusing?

Edgar Friendly: You see, according to Cocteau's plan I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green jello all over my body reading playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener."

 

[rgraham666]

I loved that rant. Leary does rants so well.

3113, I'm well aware of our society's preference for beauty.

It's why I've never used a 'standard' person in any of my stories. It seems to have worked so far.

 

[TheEarl]

Wonder what happens then. Or was I the only one who thought Demolition Man was... hmm, how to say it. More prophetic than amusing?

You've already taken the first steps towards having Schwartzenegger as your president...

The Earl

 

[FallingToFly]

You've already taken the first steps towards having Schwartzenegger as your president...

The Earl

Considering I don't live in California, I haven't done anything, tyvm....

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Edgar Friendly: You see, according to Cocteau's plan I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green jello all over my body reading playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener."

One of my all-time favorite quotes. Look, you all have good points. Now, let me add mine. I have had a long series of respiratory disorders, from bronchitis to double pneumonia, for much of my childhood. I don't think that it was an accident that these followed my trips to my grandmother's house (and I love her, but her smoking WAS a factor). It was in the privacy of her home. And it STILL affected me. Not that I support a ban. But I also don't mind people adopting their own corporate policies. Then again, that's because people should have the right to run their own private firms as they see fit, with reasonable exceptions. It's the public sector that shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. The market will punish the prejudiced well enough. I'm basically a Libertarian, and I will not support taking away people's right to kill themselves. However, I will also not support taking away an employer's right to cut his or her own financial throat.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm going to start my own company. And not hire people who drive to work in private vehicles.

Their exhaust makes my eyes water when I go outdoors, and my sinuses express their distaste by going on a long run. Often I end up gasping for breath as my lungs try to process all the gunk in the air.

Fair's fair.

 

[Hooper_X]

I don't personally agree with this policy, but it makes perfect business sense. There is statistical evidence to support the claim that employees who are smokers incur greater health care cost for their employers. Moreover, quite a lot if not most, smokers take excessive unscheduled smoke-breaks at the cost of reduced productivity. What amazes me is that so many otherwise politically right-leaning smokers don't side with the employer's alleged right to do anything he/she wishes, as they do with almost every other labor issue.

 

[deathlynx]

I do have to agree there...A Private organization or business should have the right to make such descisions (provided they obey the law in all respects)...As has been stated it is a vice rather than a biological imperative so it is indeed a choice (or was at one point)...Heck, the supreme court upheld the right of the Boy Scouts to select membership so why not a pricate business?

 

[pink swirl]

I don't personally agree with this policy, but it makes perfect business sense. There is statistical evidence to support the claim that employees who are smokers incur greater health care cost for their employers. Moreover, quite a lot if not most, smokers take excessive unscheduled smoke-breaks at the cost of reduced productivity. What amazes me is that so many otherwise politically right-leaning smokers don't side with the employer's alleged right to do anything he/she wishes, as they do with almost every other labor issue.

Coffee breaks - don't hire people who drink coffee and take breaks to go get it/make it in the coffee room. Coffee causes cancer anyway. Or maybe it doesn't. Whatever. Let's ban coffee drinkers to make sure. Tea, as well. Unless it's the herbal stuff. I think that's ok.

Donuts/muffin/cookie breaks - don't hire those people who eat donut and muffins in the morning, or get those afternoon snacks. They're all unhealthy too. Bad for your arteries. And teeth. Higher medical costs. PLUS, they're taking all those breaks!

Don't hire those people who drink gallons of water all day - do you know how much time they waste going back and forth to the bathroom!! Plus, they use up all the toilet paper and soap!

Oh, and no parents!! Never hire parents!! Do you know how often they take early afternoons to go to soccer games? How can you run a business with people leaving early all the time? Telemarketers can't make up time, so no parents. And their kids are always getting sick, and they bring all those germs to work and make everybody else sick. No, no parents. And forget married people because they usually become parents!

No single women! They are always having relationship problems! And then they cry and take more coffee breaks and talk on the phone with their friends about their bad relationships. And they have periods and are always going to the bathroom to change their tampons! And let's not even talk about PMS! Then they get married and have kids. Bad investment to hire them.

And no single men! They play sports on the weekends and hurt themselves and take out their dialing fingers and elbows and backs and knees! And get into lots of car accidents. Plus, they drink and have sex and that's a bad health risk! Lots of them have heart attacks, too and die early. No, no single men!

Hmm, that leaves, children?

 

[Hooper_X]

Coffee breaks - don't hire people who drink coffee and take breaks to go get it/make it in the coffee room. Coffee causes cancer anyway. Or maybe it doesn't.

My doctor told me that people who drink at least six cups of coffee per day are at a reduced risk for colon cancer. Caffeine has some increased risks for coronary artery disease, but given a choice between the two, I'll take the heart attack. Moreover, I don't have to go outside every 30 minutes to drink a cappuccino. In fact, I do quite a lot of business in coffee shops (not star bucks... cheap over-roasted beans and no free wifi)

 

[Liar]

I don't personally agree with this policy, but it makes perfect business sense. There is statistical evidence to support the claim that employees who are smokers incur greater health care cost for their employers. Moreover, quite a lot if not most, smokers take excessive unscheduled smoke-breaks at the cost of reduced productivity. What amazes me is that so many otherwise politically right-leaning smokers don't side with the employer's alleged right to do anything he/she wishes, as they do with almost every other labor issue.

As testified earlier in the thread, small breaks thoughout the working day both improves the overall work efficiency and reduceds the stress level of the employees. Unless your job is to sit and watch grass grow, you need breaks to clear your head.

Smokers and non smokers alike should take more of them IMO. It's not how many minutes per hour you work, but what you get done on those minutes.

 

[Hooper_X]

As testified earlier in the thread, small breaks thoughout the working day both improves the overall work efficiency and reduceds the stress level of the employees...

Perhaps this is true, but most employers don't give a flying fuck about this sort of rationalization. They give the number of breaks that they are required to give by law or labor agreement, and otherwise want asses in seats and noses to the grindstone.

 

[minsue]

Um. No. Didn't I make myself clear? You said it yourself in an earlier post even. It's an allergy, not an aquired distaste. It's not just an "offensice odor". I don't get insulted, I get physically ill.

Cigarette smoke, even the parts of it lingering in clothes and breath after a recently burned one, is endangering a fair amount of people's health. Including mine. On a bad day, and the wrong situation (stuck in an elevator comes to mind), I could get the whole breathing-through-a-straw asthmatic enchilada going. Just like stong perfume can do for many others.

I can understand that, I am one of those who get physically ill from perfumes. (and often have wondered how much worse it would be if I didn't smoke, considering how much smoking dulls one's sense of smell.) I have had to move locations due to someone's perfume more times than I can count. It's my problem, though, not their's. No one is going to ban perfume because a small percentage of us get ill from the smell. No one judges the wearer and treats them as though they are lower than pond scum. No one keeps them from getting a job, though I have worked with people who wore so much perfume I spent the entire shift dizzy and sick to my stomach all day every day.

Why should we be singled out and treated like shit when no one else is?

 

[minsue]

You've already taken the first steps towards having Schwartzenegger as your president...

The Earl

Can't happen, Earl, unless they change the constitution. The president must be born in the US.

 

[FallingToFly]

I don't personally agree with this policy, but it makes perfect business sense. There is statistical evidence to support the claim that employees who are smokers incur greater health care cost for their employers. Moreover, quite a lot if not most, smokers take excessive unscheduled smoke-breaks at the cost of reduced productivity. What amazes me is that so many otherwise politically right-leaning smokers don't side with the employer's alleged right to do anything he/she wishes, as they do with almost every other labor issue.

I have to flat out disagrre with that- I've worked everything from stables to cocktail waitressing to teaching assistant, and I worked my ass off, no matter what I was doing.I've worked with smokers and non-smokers, and guess what? There is absolutely NO difference in how much work they get done based on that criteria. What does matter is this- if someone is a lazy ass bastard, they're a lazy ass bastard. When I worked as a cocktail waitress for the holiday season, I showed up for work in high heels, hair up, make-up done, short, but professional, black dress. The three other girls they had hired, since there was no "dress code" showed up in jeans and sweaters, and sneakers (It was November/December in North Carolina, so I can partially understand) with no make-up and their hair scraped back in ponytails. My first six hour shift, I made $300. None of the others made more than 80$- because I was out working while they were sitting behind the kitchen bar flirting with the cook (he was worth it, but none of them ever found that out) and complaining about how crowded it was and that they couldn't get their drink trays through the crowd.

None of them were smokers- I am. And that's just an example of what I've seen- people who have a work ethic to get it done- get it done. It doesn't matter if it's a phone addict or a smoker- they're both vices that annoy the fuck out of others. However, there's a difference between someone who does nothing but idle away time while on the phone (or Lit, how many of you are wasting time at work reading this?) or smoking outside and people who are working, take a few minutes, and dive right back in.

Just my .02.

 

[Pure]

rg, i think you overstated the case. it's partly true though because of what's actualy the case: the new pariahs are the poor people.
they can't appear in magazines, in ads, in TV shows, and their ads; and they are discouraged from even entering the malls, the new temples to $$$, god of the Americans; if they do, they may not sit. they may not enter certain neighborhoods either, for instance the 'gated communities.'

probably you know about this, rg.

 

[rgraham666]

I've seen the security guards keep a very close eye on me when I enter malls, yes.

The dirty looks I get from one of my neighbours speaks volumes of their distaste for me. "How dare you sully my world!" it says.

 

[Liar]

Can't happen, Earl, unless they change the constitution. The president must be born in the US.

Schwarzenegger Jr then? Does the gubernator spawn?

 

[Liar]

Why should we be singled out and treated like shit when no one else is?

You shouldn't. I gladly treat anyone with an (by choice) excessive odor the same way.

I think the genral rule at a workplace should be "respect your co-workers' right to air they can breathe". If that means cutting down on the cologne because some are allergic, or not being able to smoke at breaks without a shower and a change because Frank in the cubicle next to you has asthma, or not havning that PB sammich in the lunch room because that gives Bob seizures, then so be it.

Btw, I react at some perfumes with the same symptoms as with smoke. Just not as much. But I know that others do. And they're not all that rare.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I've seen the security guards keep a very close eye on me when I enter malls, yes.

The dirty looks I get from one of my neighbours speaks volumes of their distaste for me. "How dare you sully my world!" it says.

Ironically by people whose religious beliefs teach them not to shun the poor.....hmmm...or at least in many cases...wonder what they would do with an intinerate former carpenter and a band of ragged fishermen. I just say that because many of them have signs that say "What Would Jesus Do".

I'm a pagan, but my religion has a teaching of its own...the poor come from Zeus. Hence they are not to be shunned as lowlife or any such thing.