the 'n' word

[Xander]

You know what. All this interpritation of the world famours "N" word, got me thinking of a few things.

Me...Xander a gook (sp) was out partying, and I was speaking with a black man (I know politically incorrect!) and we were joking around a bit.
So I asked him, since we're in europe, if that would make him an african european. he just looked at me, with a very strange look on his face and said.

"Jeez buddy, why the hell don't you call the nigger a nigger, and a gook a gook. I'm so sick and tired of the political correctness everybody shows. To me it's beginning to be more an insult to use the politically correct term, than having someone call me a Nigger......Now who's getting the next round of drinks......."

I shit you not people.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I have a lovely bittersweet story about one of my great great to the nth power grandparents on my daddy's side. He chose love over his racial prejudices. Too bad his KKK compadres weren't so open minded.

Of course, thats not the point.

In the rinky dink town some of my relatives live in, the word nigger is applied to everyone, no matter what color you are. A nigger is a bad, lowly, lazy person of no redeeming value. I think this rolled around primarily because there are no black people living there. Or anywhere within 40 miles. They have the watered down racial prejudices that have been passed down from generation to generation, but nowdays its all academic to them, as they don't meet an actual black person until they leave town.

A phrase that bothers me is "reverse discrimination." This just does not make sense to me. How can it be reverse? Discrimination is discrimination no matter who is doing it and who its being done to.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Re: Good point WH only I think it goes a bit farther than just an insult

BTW Oliver, it is also not acceptable to say " I jewed the price down" That is just as offensive as saying niggardly.

I think you may have missed my point, Siren. There should be nothing at all offensive about the word "niggardly", as it has nothing at all to do with the word "nigger" or with black people. Therefore anyone who's insulted by the word, does so out of sheer ignorance.

The term "jewing the price down" is different because it's clearly in reference to the stereotype of Jews being tight-fisted hagglers and (ironically now that I think about it)...

niggardly.

 

[Bliss]

Here is the difference between the two:

http://www.bartleby.com/61/142/A0059842.html

http://www.bartleby.com/61/144/A0059844.html

I would guess that the second is a bastardization of the first, in the same way that fine old white ladies of about 80 years of age think they are being not only correct, but also oh so polite when they use the "word" nigra. *gag*

 

[Treat]

Skitch, I understand where you are coming from in your first question, and I agree with you in what you said about saying the'N' word and the real world. And to everyone else I was not trying to belittle, step on your toes or say that you are ignorant to the fact on certain things. If it was taken that way then I apologize.

Now to give my opinion on your other question about dating and relationships. There are some people out there that are racist and voice their opinions about interracial dating. But then there are also a lot of people that are not racist, that do not approve of it. It is their choice and view. It is like say you like football but you dont like this team or that.

 

[Strange Girl]

I have a tough time hearing anybody use such a dispicable word, no matter what the intention. Not much offends me more. I'm not overly sensitive, I just can't help thinking less of a person when they say it.

 

[*Eve*]

Oliver, you are trying to analyze something that really doesn't pertain to you. I can only assume that you are a non black person. No one is expecting you to figure out the difference between nigger and "nigga". Why black people use that word is really not up to you or any non black person to dissect so thouroughly. As was pointed out before black people can not use that word in a way to establish superiority as most non blacks who use that term. Why do you think it is so wrong to for another black person to call another black person that. I heard two girls call each other bitches, they were friends and they said it in a way that neither could take offense. Friends name call other friends all the time.
As it was pointed out earlier, there are no bad words, just bad thoughts and it's only bad when the thought behind it is as well.
I do think that people are too PC. No one wants to offend anyone. I refer to myself as black and sometimes african-american if I feel like it. I had a white person tell ME that I should not refer to myself as black because it's outdated. Now had I called myself colored maybe I would understand, but really, some people go way too far in their political correctness.

Oliver, no hard feelings, I just need to speak my mind though.


My signature is a quote I think suits this topic
"When the game is over, the King and the pawns go back into the same box"

 

[daniducci]

As I've said before, I would never use the term "nigger" or any derivative (knowingly), to refer to a person or group of people. But it sounds racist to me to say that I shouldn't (or can't) use a word because of how other's of my race have used it. But that personal feeling aside, I have a related question. I lived recently in Akron, OH. Growing up in Illinois, I had heard the term jury-rigged to refer to something that's been put together cheaply (you know, lot's of Duck Tape, think of McGuyver). In Akron, for the first time, I heard the term "nigger-rigged" to mean the same thing. This term was used by young, white collar white individuals who believed themselves to be not at all racist. The term bothered me tremendously because it actual does specify a stereotype about black individuals. After reflecting on it, however, I re-evaluated my own language and did some dictionary checking (it wasn't a good dictionary though). The term "jewry" refers to anything of Jewish origin. Question, is jury-rigged actual "jewry-rigged" and in reference to Jews? Have I been using derogatory language my whole life without knowing it? (I told you there were things I was ignorant of, *Eve*) Surely no one uses "nigger" derivatives without knowing it, but are there other cases like "jewry-rigged" in which we use the term without knowing its derogatory nature?

 

[Siren]

I think my point was overlooked or ignored

 

[Gus]

I am surprised that none of the BB's Psychology Majors (is that the right term?) have spoken about In-Groups and Out-Groups. The unacceptable word is used by the group to change it from the insult to a compliment - as is shown way back at the beginning of this thread.

An example of this from English history goes back to WWI - The British Army was called 'contemptible' by one of the German leaders. They then started to call themselves and take pride in being called, 'the old contemptibles'. It is still a boast - "I was one of the 'Old Contemptibles'"

Many years ago I was part of a small group, within a larger group, that was labeled SLOBS.(South London Old Boys).
It was not meant kindly. However, we adopted the epithit and when we had a night out it was a SLOBS NIGHT OUT. We even had a little ceremony to install an honorary SLOB. Now, years later, we are having a reunion and people not part of that small group consider that they are SLOBS - until I explain that they never were!

Thought that you might be interested.
Gus

 

[Naked Hunny]

UGH I was gonna stay out of this but I hate the word NIGGER!! Hell my own stepmother refers to my daughter as the NIGGER child!! She tells me every day how happy she is that snickerdoodle isnt that dark!! How great it is that her hair isnt coarse!! I love my daughter and I loved her father at one point!! But my child is not a NIGGER!! She is a biracial child!! Which wasnt even her choice!! Whats the big damn deal??

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Oliver, you are trying to analyze something that really doesn't pertain to you. I can only assume that you are a non black person. No one is expecting you to figure out the difference between nigger and "nigga". Why black people use that word is really not up to you or any non black person to dissect so thouroughly.

Eve, I understand where you're coming from, but I'll try to explain my position a little better.

First of all, as you surmised, I'm white. I'm about as caucasian as they come, but as I see it, my race has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of what I say.

As a person, it's fully within my right to question the behavior of any other person. I may be dead wrong, but it's my right. To argue that a white person may not question the actions or practices of black people or visa versa is silly. Are we allowed only to address the behavior of people like yourself? If you carry that logic to it's conclusion, I can only legitimately criticize southern 25-year old blond-haired, green-eyed 3rd-year medical students.

There's a famous humanistic aphorism (I think it was from Erasmus) that I use to guide my philosophy regarding other people: "Nothing which is human is foreign to me". It basically means that I'm a student of humanity in all its vast diversity and complexity, and that I'm not satisfied to carve it up into easy bite-size chunks of race, class, religion, ethnicity, or nationality and ignore it all but my own little chunk.

Secondly, you're absolutely right that what people call each other "isn't really up to me." I'm not saying it is. I'm not even saying that blacks shouldn't call each other "nigga". It's clearly each person's right to call themselves what they want, and I couldn't stop them even if I wanted to. What I am saying is that it given all the horrible connitations and emotional baggage that go along with "nigger", I don't understand why one would want to perpetuate its use.

Is that out of line?

I know this is an extremely touchy topic and I hope I didn't offend. I just find it annoying to be told that I may not address a particular topic simply because my skin has less melanin than yours.

[Edited by Oliver Clozoff on 09-11-2000 at 05:39 PM]

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Just read your post, Gus, and you're right on.

It's kind of like the old joke where your brother comes to your rescue when you're getting beaten up and tells your attacker, "nobody beats up my little brother but me" before proceeding to start pummeling you himself.

I understand the phenomenon. Being branded with a derogatory name is a difficult and trying experience that bonds the group and gives them a sense of common identity.

Excellent observation.

 

[*Eve*]

My point Oliver, in case you missed it, was that, you as a white person, are trying to over analyze something you will never truly understand and you can't truly understand it, until you've lived it. Now, I did not say at any point that you didn't have a right to an opinion of it, this is America not a dictatorship, so say what you like. What I do think though is that you have no right to criticize black people's use of the word and I'm not saying that you were just that I am tired of being so damn PC about everthing. I do think you should perhaps re read my post.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I re-read your post, Eve, and I'm not trying to be contentious here. But I hold to my argument that one does not have to go through an experience to understand it. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. No hard feelings. I always enjoy your posts.

 

[*Eve*]

I too am sticking to my guns so I guess we shake hands and walk away as friends before someone gets hurt.


Ok Oliver you may continue to worship me now.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Whew... that's a relief. I've been arguing back and forth on two threads plus studying pulmonary disease. Makes a man just wanna sit back, relax, and worship for a little while.