The Military and Wicca

[Lord DragonsWing]

This was forwarded to me and I thought it was very interesting for those of us who are pagan.

Enjoy the article and Blessed Be.

Military casts Wicca in the shadows
As members serve their country, they also battle the military to
accept their faith
By Randy Myers
After U.S. military personnel pelted American Wiccan servicemen and
servicewomen in Iraq with bottles and rocks as they worshipped in a
sacred circle, the Pentagon turned to Patrick McCollum of Moraga.
The chaplain, a national expert on the earth-based Wicca religion,
conjured a little Wicca 101 for the troops.
Most Americans glean their Wicca knowledge from TV's "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer" or "Charmed," with their witches and curses, good
and evil. Wiccan worship focuses on respect for the earth and its
inhabitants with a "do no harm" credo.
"Education is the single most powerful tool," in dealing with
misunderstandings in the military, McCollum said.
Wiccans represent a small fraction of the military, roughly 1,500
among 1.4 million active personnel, but the Pentagon wants to
accommodate their faith. The military trains chaplains to meet the
religious needs of all service members without compromising their
own religious beliefs, said Col. Richard Hum, executive director of
the Armed Forces Chaplains Board at the Defense Department.
That's where McCollum and a few other Wiccans come in as on-call
Pentagon advisers. The military has sought his advice three or four
times since he started after Sept. 11, 2001, he said.
An advisory team became a Pentagon priority when Wiccan military
personnel reported problems while conducting rites and religious
activities.
The Wiccans said that some chaplains were trying to convert them and
that commanding officers made it difficult to practice, McCollum
said.
Wiccans also have been pressuring the Department of Veterans Affairs
to allow a Wiccan emblem, most likely the pentacle, for armed forces
burial headstones or markers. Mike Nacincik of Veterans Affairs,
said the department authorizes 38 emblems, including one for
atheists, but none for Wiccans.
The military should honor the beliefs of Wiccans asked to fight and
die to uphold freedom of speech and religion, McCollum said.
"If these freedoms are taken away while they're defending these
values, it creates a paradox."
Defending freedom is the essence of the military, said Col. W. Randy
Robnett, wing chaplain at Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield.
"We provide for freedom of religion (in the military)," he
said. "That's why we put the uniform on every day."
An extensive Internet network links McCollum with the faithful.
Paganism thrives in California, particularly in the Bay Area and Los
Angeles region, he said.
Wiccans exist in nearly all military branches, some in the top
ranks, he said.
The Air Force attracts the most, with 1,552 of enlisted personnel
identifying themselves as Wiccans, said Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a
Defense Department spokeswoman. The Marine Corps has 68. The Navy
doesn't report numbers, and the Army lists no Wiccans, she said.
The Air Force recognized the religious categories of Pagan,
Gardnerian Wiccan, Seax Wiccan, Dianic Wiccan, Shaman and Druid in
2000. Many bases now have circles and hold services. Dog tags can
also identify a serviceperson as Wiccan.
Wiccans had their first chaplain-service in 1997 at the Army's Fort
Hood in Texas.
At Travis, Wiccan lay leader and high priest Loye Pourner estimates
that 60 Wiccans are among the nearly 11,300 enlisted men and women
there.
"Those numbers are way low," he said. "One of the difficulties in
federal, state and military institutions is that they say they want
to know so they can ... help us" but discriminate against those who
admit to being pagans.
Pourner began holding weekly informational meetings at Travis in
1996. The recently retired technical sergeant is lay leader for the
roughly 15-member Travis Earth Circle. They observe eight sacred
cycles of the year, called sabbats.
Practicing Wicca overseas can be challenging, especially in the
desert, Pourner said. The Air Force sent him to Qatar days after the
Sept. 11 attacks. He used birthday candles and his canteen cup for
religious rites. He and four other Wiccans celebrated Halloween -
Samhan - in Qatar. Members of the 45-member troop respected their
faith.
During intense times, nearly everyone banded together and sought
spiritual support from Pourner.
"We prayed nightly to any divine being that we wouldn't get
attacked," he said.
The Department of Veterans Affairs has so far refused to allow a
Wiccan emblem on the headstones or markers of soldiers. Other
relatively obscure religions have the privilege, including Eckankar
and the Church of World Messianity.
Wiccans don't meet the emblem requirements, said Nacincik.
The department's bureaucratic hurdles include a written request from
the recognized head of the organization, a list of national officers
and a membership tally.
The VA demands are impossible, McCollum said: Wiccans have no
hierarchy or governing board for the religion's numerous sects.
"If they submit the proper information that is required then we'll
go ahead and consider them," Nacincik said.
"That answer is canned government-speak," said McCollum.
Pourner said he has e-mailed requests to Veterans Affairs and never
heard a reply.
"We have had requests about the process, but no one has followed
through on it," Nacincik said.
That vexes McCollum.
"It doesn't appear to me that the Veterans Affairs has any burning
desire to make this happen.
"The Veterans (Affairs), above all people, should be fighting for
each and every one of these men and women who have given their lives
for their country."
Reach Randy Myers at rmyers@c... or 925-977-8419.

The primary tenets of Wicca, as expressed by Patrick McCollum,
include:
WICCA BELIEFS
• "Honoring all paths and people."
• "That all people are equal."
• "That Earth, our universe and everything around us, is sacred."
• "Harming no one."
• "The three-fold law. How we act both with each other and the world
will be directly reflected back on us."
WICCAN SYMBOLS
• THE PENTACLE: The five-pointed star in a circle is the symbol most
often associated with Wicca. Four points represent elements, the
topmost the spirit.
• THE CIRCLE: A sacred space that can be drawn nearly anywhere. It
keeps out unwelcome energy and represents the equivalent of a
congregation.
• THE COVEN: A group of Wiccans who regularly meet to participate in
the rites, magic, study and celebration of the religion. Not all
Wiccans are part of a coven; some practice by themselves.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Very good article LDW. I've followed, but never practiced the wiccan religion.
So many people still have erroneous and pre-concieved notions of the faith.

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

Very good article LDW. I've followed, but never practiced the wiccan religion.
So many people still have erroneous and pre-concieved notions of the faith.

Thank you Abs. I remember when I lived in Pensacola, FL the newspaper ran a full page on the Navy base recognizing Wicca and how understanding the military was to the growing religion. But from reading this it's sad. Soldiers who serve and fight are pelted by their fellow soldiers. And the VA wants paperwork that Wicca doesn't have.
At one time there was a National Council but it folded. There are too many sects and solitary practioners to accept a National Council. It's sad to think when a Wicca soldier dies he has no symbol on his tombstone because of the bureaucracy.

To this day most people associate witches with Hollywood and the history of the witch hunts. It would be nice if people would learn more about us than having preconceived notions.

 

[doormouse]

Burn the witches!!

shameless plug

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

Burn the witches!!

shameless plug

I love that poem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Thank you Abs. I remember when I lived in Pensacola, FL the newspaper ran a full page on the Navy base recognizing Wicca and how understanding the military was to the growing religion. But from reading this it's sad. Soldiers who serve and fight are pelted by their fellow soldiers. And the VA wants paperwork that Wicca doesn't have.
At one time there was a National Council but it folded. There are too many sects and solitary practioners to accept a National Council. It's sad to think when a Wicca soldier dies he has no symbol on his tombstone because of the bureaucracy.

To this day most people associate witches with Hollywood and the history of the witch hunts. It would be nice if people would learn more about us than having preconceived notions.

That is sad, considering that this nation fought to give persons the right to freedom of religion.

I still can't believe some people are under the immpression that Harry Potter is about witchcraft and the devil.
When did we stop trying to educate ourselves.

They may have linked the Salem Witch hysteria to a Rye flour fungus that explained the girls having a sleep paralysis and hallucinations that would make them think they were possessed by a witch's curse.

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

That is sad, considering that this nation fought to give persons the right to freedom of religion.

I still can't believe some people are under the immpression that Harry Potter is about witchcraft and the devil.
When did we stop trying to educate ourselves.

They may have linked the Salem Witch hysteria to a Rye flour fungus that explained the girls having a sleep paralysis and hallucinations that would make them think they were possessed by a witch's curse.

It is sad. The rye flour fungus and possible loss of support from the local community cause hundreds to die. Not just in Salem but throughout North America. And thousands in Europe.

I remember listening to Led Zepplin in high school when my Aunt, a devout Christian, showed up. She preached to my Mom about the devils message if you played it backwards. I cranked it up backwards and heard nothing but luos on tnia tog on nemow deggel gib

I asked her what the devil said there and she got mad and left. lol

I still haven't figured out the white album played backwards. lmao

 

[ABSTRUSE]

It is sad. The rye flour fungus and possible loss of support from the local community cause hundreds to die. Not just in Salem but throughout North America. And thousands in Europe.

I remember listening to Led Zepplin in high school when my Aunt, a devout Christian, showed up. She preached to my Mom about the devils message if you played it backwards. I cranked it up backwards and heard nothing but luos on tnia tog on nemow deggel gib

I asked her what the devil said there and she got mad and left. lol

I still haven't figured out the white album played backwards. lmao

PMSL!!!
Did she the Blessed Virgin appear on a pancake at IHOP?

 

[Guest]

That is sad, considering that this nation fought to give persons the right to freedom of religion.

I still can't believe some people are under the immpression that Harry Potter is about witchcraft and the devil.
When did we stop trying to educate ourselves.

They may have linked the Salem Witch hysteria to a Rye flour fungus that explained the girls having a sleep paralysis and hallucinations that would make them think they were possessed by a witch's curse.

ABs, far back as I can remember, and 3,987 years is a long time) People have been determined to destroy what they don't understand. Then they look back later when some explains it and they say, "Oh, Sorry." People will never change that. It's in their nature.

My human counterpart left the Southern Baptist church that he practically grew up in when the pastor preached an entire hour and a half sermon on "Electric guitars are Satans toys". He in fact got up from the second row and simply walked out an hour into the sermon.

People hate what they don't understand. And they don't want to learn any different. If their god says it's bad it must be.

 

[cloudy]

I don't know how many times I've said this, and it's been right most of the time....

What people don't understand, they fear - and what they fear, they try to destroy.

Freedom of religion here is all good and well, as long as it's a mainstream religion, like Christianity, or Judaism. All others are looked upon with suspicion, and that's just sad. My family looks upon my spirituality with loads of suspicion, and seems to think it's a "phase," even though this phase has lasted over 20 years.

 

[sweetnpetite]

ONe of the Bushes (I think W. ) is quoted as saying that he doesn't think that witchcraft is a religion and doesnt' think that the military should recognize it.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite
ONe of the Bushes (I think W. ) is quoted as saying that he doesn't think that witchcraft is a religion and doesnt' think that the military should recognize it.

I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to decide whether or not I agree.

 

[ferociouskittycat]

I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to decide whether or not I agree.

Me too.

At the moment, it's, 'yes darling', 'what ever you say darling'...

I don't judge what I don't understand.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

ONe of the Bushes (I think W. ) is quoted as saying that he doesn't think that witchcraft is a religion and doesnt' think that the military should recognize it.

I suppose he's under the impression that since Christ died and Christianity took up speed, that there was no other religion before hand.

The roots of witchcraft far exceed that of the Cult of the Christ.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by ABSTRUSE
I suppose he's under the impression that since Christ died and Christianity took up speed, that there was no other religion before hand.

The roots of witchcraft far exceed that of the Cult of the Christ.

I'm not entirely sure that's true.

 

[cloudy]

I'm not entirely sure that's true.

Read your history, and try to keep an open mind. What I believe has been around a lot longer than Christianity, too. And, no, I'm not Wiccan.

Nothing wrong with being a Christian, if that's what you choose, but doesn't invalidate everything else, either.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by cloudy
Read your history, and try to keep an open mind. What I believe has been around a lot longer than Christianity, too. And, no, I'm not Wiccan.

Nothing wrong with being a Christian, if that's what you choose, but doesn't invalidate everything else, either.

One of my degrees is in Religion. I rather have read history on the matter and I, and quite a number of the scholarly community, remain unconvinced on "witchcraft" being older than Christianity.

Mainly due to the idea that while there were earth-based religious movements prior to Christian movements (which I don't think anyone will disagree with), the form that those movements took don't actually resemble anything practiced today to any significant degree. Sort of like how Christianity's roots take a good number of Egyptian myths under it... but do we say that modern Christianity is, then, predating Buddhism because of that?

No.

To expand the notion of "wicca" or "paganism" (or any of a number of uniquely modern buzzwords) to include "every earth-based religion in history" is to expand the notion of it being a religion to such a broad extent as to allow it to lose any meaning.

I wouldn't say Wicca is not a religion, I don't think. I'm undecided on that matter. But I can't, in good knowledge or service, accept that its some kind of ancient, deep, original faith when the relation between things practiced then and now are so great and translated.

 

[cloudy]

One of my degrees is in Religion. I rather have read history on the matter and I, and quite a number of the scholarly community, remain unconvinced on "witchcraft" being older than Christianity.

Mainly due to the idea that while there were earth-based religious movements prior to Christian movements (which I don't think anyone will disagree with), the form that those movements took don't actually resemble anything practiced today to any significant degree. Sort of like how Christianity's roots take a good number of Egyptian myths under it... but do we say that modern Christianity is, then, predating Buddhism because of that?

No.

To expand the notion of "wicca" or "paganism" (or any of a number of uniquely modern buzzwords) to include "every earth-based religion in history" is to expand the notion of it being a religion to such a broad extent as to allow it to lose any meaning.

I wouldn't say Wicca is not a religion, I don't think. I'm undecided on that matter. But I can't, in good knowledge or service, accept that its some kind of ancient, deep, original faith when the relation between things practiced then and now are so great and translated.

I'm sorry, but you sound very close-minded in what you said. Maybe you aren't, but it sounds that way.

What I believe was taught to me by my grandmother, and so on, back generations. It is older than Christianity, I promise. All things change, religion included, over time, but just because it's changed, doesn't invalidate someone's beliefs.

Do you have to belong to a formal church for your religion to be considered a religion? I don't accept that definition considering that some of the oldest belief systems don't include an organizing body like that. In fact, I think that organized religion has more to do with raising money, than perpetuating beliefs.

You're christian, that's cool, and everyone is entitled to believe what they like, but you must realize that although you may think Christianity is the only way to go, others will disagree.

The main argument I have with organized religion is the idea that their way is the only way, and everything else is invalid. That, and living in the south, and seeing the hypocrisy of "good chuch members" up close and personal.

 

[The_Darkness]

Okay, folks, here's the deal. This is my semi-professional opinion as a semi-professional historian (I got me a degree and all).

First of all, I'd just like to say that I don't openly admonish people's religious beliefs...unless they're faking it. People who fake belief in a religion should (and will, in my ever-so-humble-opinion) go to hell and burn..or work on some insurmountable and uncompleteable task...for a very very long time.

The roots of witchcraft far exceed that of the Cult of the Christ.

Yup. Not really any debate there. The Egyptians and Babylonians had detailed uses...and punishments for...witch craft.

Lord Dragonswing....I suppose that I will begin with saying that I completely respect your religious beliefs and I respect that you adhere to them. If more folks did that, this country....and this world...would be a much better place. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with us and taking a stand for them.

I happen to believe that your beliefs are wrong. But, I'm Christian and you're not and that's the way it is.

The problem with Wicca...or any religion, actually, is that not all of the followers really know what the hell is going on. Most of the Wicca practicioners read a couple of books by Silverwolf or Skyfox and they start gettting all tree-hugger and peace-loving and they become a caricature of the religion. It is a thankful and true minority of the practicioners of the religion that look at Buffy or Charmed or Passions or whatever and they say "That's what my religion is." Sad. But, admirable for those who stick to their guns and hold to their beilefs.

But ultimately it's still sad.

I'm not defending those troops that were throwing rocks at the Wiccans. That's not cool no matter what's going on. But, I wasn't there, so I won't defend either side or condemn either side for their actions.

*very, very deep sigh* The founders of this country did not fight and bleed to give people the freedom to allow the people to choose religion other than Christianity. What "Freedom of Religion" and "Separation of Church and State" are pertaining to is that the Government can never declare one branch or sect of Christanity as the state-sponsored version. Europe had engaged in huge wars because of the Monarchy declaring Catholocism, Luthernism, Anglicanism, etc as their "State Religion" That's all that statement means, that's all it's ever meant. The US Constitution is very, very clear through out it's duration that this is one nation, under God. That's with the Big-G, kids. It's simply that modern definitions have changed the meaning. I don't want to sound like a bigot here or anything, but 90% of the founding fathers were Free-masons; and exceptionally Christian group. They wanted a Christian nation...not just a Catholic or Protestant or Anglican Nation. There end my rant on "Freedom of Religion."

Except for this. All that having been said, this country's founding documents are so embedded with the notions and pilars of Christianity that if you people don't like the Pledge of Allegiance because it has the phrase "One Nation, Under God" in it. Just get the fuck out...or swallow your pride and understand the power behind that statement and subconsiously add in whatever deity or philosophy that you worship. If you can do that without snickering, you actually believe in your religion's teaching, and that's one of the best things in the world.

In short; yes, the current US Government is not very Wiccan friendly. None of my Wiccan friends (or ex-girlfriends or ex-Wiccan friends) appreciated that very much, but they hold their ceremonies, cast their circles, and perform their rites and all is well. So, Lord Dragonswing (and all the other Wiccans, Pagans, Buddhists, Hari-Chrishnas, and other folks not of my core religion) keep on keepin' on, hold tight to your beliefs and remember, if it harms no other, do as thou will.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by cloudy
I'm sorry, but you sound very close-minded in what you said. Maybe you aren't, but it sounds that way.

What I believe was taught to me by my grandmother, and so on, back generations. It is older than Christianity, I promise. All things change, religion included, over time, but just because it's changed, doesn't invalidate someone's beliefs.

Do you have to belong to a formal church for your religion to be considered a religion? I don't accept that definition considering that some of the oldest belief systems don't include an organizing body like that. In fact, I think that organized religion has more to do with raising money, than perpetuating beliefs.

You're christian, that's cool, and everyone is entitled to believe what they like, but you must realize that although you may think Christianity is the only way to go, others will disagree.

The main argument I have with organized religion is the idea that their way is the only way, and everything else is invalid. That, and living in the south, and seeing the hypocrisy of "good chuch members" up close and personal.

I would rather sound close minded than be incorrect. On the former, there's little I can do. I don't consider my admitting to not being able to as yet make a decision on the matter of something being a religion or not to be an indication of being close minded... rather, it seems to me that it is the very notion of being open minded. I, in the end, have not judged. Unlike, say, others.

Beyond that, though I cannot argue with what was passed down "for generations", I can say with some certainty that based on scholarship--it is not necessarily "older" for the reasons I gave. I could, for instance, say that it was passed down to me by my grandparents that it is not older... but that sort of anecdotal evidence has blindly obvious problems, doesn't it?

I had never said that anything changing over time invalidates anything. I don't understand your assertion.

I wouldn't say one needs a church to have a religion, no.

You say that your main problem with organized religion is that they believe their way is the only way... I find that people say this a lot. Students of mine, in class, say this all the time. It is a fairly meaningless proposition...

If a thing is true, then its opposite (to use simple terms) must be false. If a religion has accurate metaphysical truth, then other metaphysical truths (given that they raise any contradictions or conflicts) must be not-true. Take, for instance, Christianity. Given that it is true, then several metaphysical notions become false (no afterlife, for instance).

However, its not a Christian-specific trait. Let's take a Wiccan belief... namely, spiritual reprocussion. A thing is done, that thing will echo back upon the agent--it is the agents moral obligation to do good things to avoid the echo being bad. Its fairly basic and popular. Now, if this idea is true, then it precludes ideas like "no consequences" and "no responsibility" from being true.

All belief systems, by definition and design, presume that they're tenants are the correct ones. If you have a belief structure at all, chica, then you're committing exactly the same intellectual sin you are accusing "organized religion" of performing. That brings about an interesting question... does that make you a bigot or a close minded individual just like them? Or is the notion of "if we're right, then you're wrong" an acceptable and natural part of believing in anything--and you shouldn't blame them for it, as you and everyone participates in it?

I live in the South as well. I find far, far more goodly Church-going people than goodly athiests. But, obviously, this anecdotal "what I've seen" stuff doesn't really mean anything.

 

[The_Darkness]

Cloudy that was well put. There are biggots, on both sides of the fence. However, I have to agree with our religious scholar friend here. Wicca (in its current incarnation) is pretty much based upon old Earth-worshiping religions. There are many many things about it and historical inaccuracies that I won't go into here (for fear of being ridden out of town on a rail) but most of what most modern Wiccans believe is bunk.

I think that goes with any religion.

I think Wicca started out pure and started based upon ancient religions.

I think modern Wicca...like modern Christianity...has little to do with the actual practices of its core religion.

I do not consider myself Lutheran. I am a confirmed Lutheran, I was brought up in a Lutheran (albeit, not overly religious ) home, and I was told that my D&D books were the work of the devil. I laughed, I knew better.

I am Christian. I adhere to the beliefs and the teachings of Christ and very, very few of the religious thinkers since He was walking around. Modern Christianity is about as similar to the teachings of Jesus as beavers are to chain saws; there's lots of similarities, but the differences are huge and glaring.

All religions change, all religions face persecution from without and within, and all religions have their bigots. And that really sucks.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by The_Darkness
Yup. Not really any debate there. The Egyptians and Babylonians had detailed uses...and punishments for...witch craft.

There is academic debate on the matter, though.

If we are to accept that "witchcraft predates X, because there are instances of talking about witchcraft before X"; we have to be sure we're talking about something similar enough to support the assertion.

"Devliworship" has existed as early as ancient Egyptian myths... but, to say, modernly, that devil worship is older than Christianity would be an inaccurate way of putting it. Did the worship of "devil-like things" exist prior to Christianity? Yes. Did it mean or culturally relate as the term is used now? Most certainly not.

For instance, taking the examples by Russell at Cornwell (who may be the greatest religious historian in the last twenty years) or any number of other religious historians in the academic world... the notion of "devil worship" relates very little to today's notion of it.

As such, while I'm not saying that witchcraft does not necessarily predate Christianity, I am and have been saying that its not encessarily true as there is a lot of professional debate on the matter.

 

[cloudy]

I believe spirituality is a very personal thing. And, no, I don't think that my way is the right way for everyone. It is, however, the right way for me, so no, I'm not asserting that my way is the only way. In saying that I'm being close-minded as well, you're making several assumptions that aren't true.

Your way works for you? Very cool, I'm glad it does. My way works for me. I don't think what I believe is the only "right" way to believe, I promise.

By the way, I'm not Wiccan, and I agree that some people seem to be following fads in saying that that's what they believe, but there are other ways of believing that aren't fads.

As far as it being passed down goes....there is no written guide, such as the bible, for what I believe, so it follows that the only way is for it to be passed down. Doesn't make it invalid, just different.

I'm no better than you, or any other Christian simply because of what I believe.....but then, neither are you better than me, or anyone else. That's the point I'm trying to make. Why not accept that people believe differently, and let it go at that? Why not let those that are Wiccan have some small comfort of an emblem for their burials? Why is it up to someone who doesn't believe the way they do to decide whether it's a legitimate religion or not? The point is, it doesn't matter whether you, or anyone else, thinks it's a legitimate religion. They do, and that's what matters.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by The_Darkness
All religions change, all religions face persecution from without and within, and all religions have their bigots. And that really sucks.

I would agree entirely. And, additionally, I admit that the greater failing of rational discourse between faiths (and between faiths and lack-of-faiths), is the inability to use the same language.

"Religious zealotry" as a language doesn't translate well to "aggressive religious ignorance", nor vice-versa. Motives to make both positions extreme are killing the efforts to bring dialogue and understanding. Fundamental dogmatists preaching evil as synonymous with non-belief is horrid; substituting "dangerous brainwashed ignorant weak people" for "Christian" is also a terrible thing.

People need to relax their knee-jerk reactions and come at the whole affair of religious dialogue with more moderate temperment.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by cloudy
I believe spirituality is a very personal thing. And, no, I don't think that my way is the right way for everyone. It is, however, the right way for me, so no, I'm not asserting that my way is the only way. In saying that I'm being close-minded as well, you're making several assumptions that aren't true. Your way works for you? Very cool, I'm glad it does. My way works for me. I don't think what I believe is the only "right" way to believe, I promise.

So, you believe in something... but you don't believe it to be true, just convenient?

I'm no better than you, or any other Christian simply because of what I believe.....but then, neither are you better than me, or anyone else.

Though you may not agree with this, I have to point out that logic is entirely on my side when I say that given that someone is religiously correspondant (that is to say, "correct"), then would they not be better--for being right and participating in accuracy, rather than fraud?