The Middle East Scorecard

[4est_4est_Gump]

We Give Up
By Victor Davis Hanson
March 8, 2012 12:00 A.M.

Americans — left, right, Democrats, and Republicans — are all sick of thankless nation-building in the Middle East. Yet democratization was not our first choice, but rather a last resort after other methods failed.

The United States long ago supplied Afghan insurgents, who expelled the Soviets after a decade of fighting. Then we left. The country descended into even worse medievalism under the Taliban. So after removing the Taliban, who had hosted the perpetrators of 9/11, we promised in 2001 to stay on.

We won the first Gulf War in 1991. Then most of our forces left the region. The result was the mass murder of the Iraqi Kurds and Shiites, twelve years of no-fly zones, and a failed oil-for-food embargo of Saddam’s Iraq. So after removing Saddam in 2003, we tried to leave behind something better.

In the last ten years, the United States has spent more than $1 trillion, and thousands of American lives have been lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. Both places seem far better off than they were before American intervention — at least for a while longer.

Yet the Iraqis now bear Americans little good will. They seem friendlier to Iran and Syria than to their liberators. In Afghanistan, riots continue over the mistaken burning of some defaced Korans, despite serial American apologies.

How about the option of bombing the bad guys and then just staying clear? We just did that to the terrorist-friendly Gaddafi dictatorship in Libya. But now that Gaddafi is gone, there is chaos. Islamic gangs torture and execute black Africans who supported the deposed regime, according to press reports. British World War II cemeteries that were honored during 70 years of Libyan kings and dictators could not survive six months of a “free” Libya. In Benghazi, gangs just ransacked and defaced the monuments of the British war dead.

Not having boots on the ground may ensure that endless chaos will consume the hope of a calm post-Gaddafi Libya. That was also true of Somalia and Lebanon after American troops were attacked and abruptly left.

How about another option: aid and words of encouragement only? We have urged Egyptian reform, under both George W. Bush and now Barack Obama. When protesters forced the removal of dictator Hosni Mubarak, the United States approved. It even appears likely that we will keep sending Egypt annual subsidies of more than $1.5 billion — as we have for more than 30 years. Yet anti-American Islamists are now the dominant force in Egyptian politics. American aid workers were recently arrested and threatened with trial by new Egyptian reformers.

Still another American choice would be not to nation-build, bomb, or even to get near a Middle Eastern country — as we seem to be doing with Iran and Syria. The United States has not had diplomatic relations with Iran since the shah left in 1979. Until the Obama administration desperately tried to reestablish contacts with the Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria by appointing a new ambassador, there had been nearly six years of estrangement.

Yet Iran is nearing its goal of obtaining a nuclear weapon both to threaten Israel and to bully other oil-exporting regimes of the Persian Gulf. The Syrian government is now butchering thousands of its own citizens with impunity.

A final option would be to return to the old policy of reestablishing friendly relationships with Middle East dictatorships regardless of their internal politics — and then keeping mum about their excesses. We did that with Pakistan, which has both received billions in U.S. aid and produced a nuclear bomb. Yet it is hard to imagine a more anti-American country than nuclear Pakistan, without which the Taliban could not kill Americans so easily in Afghanistan.

The United States once saved the Kuwaiti regime after it was swallowed up by Saddam Hussein. We have enjoyed strong ties with the Saudi monarchy as well. Neither country seems especially friendly to the U.S. It is still a crime to publicly practice Christianity in Saudi Arabia. Fifteen of the 19 mass-murdering hijackers of 9/11 were Saudis. Oil in the Middle East costs less than $5 a barrel to produce; it now sells for over $100, largely because of the policies of our allies and OPEC members.

Let us review the various American policy options for the Middle East over the last few decades. Military assistance or punitive intervention without follow-up mostly failed. The verdict on far more costly nation-building is still out. Trying to help popular insurgents topple unpopular dictators does not guarantee anything better. Propping up dictators with military aid is both odious and counterproductive. Keeping clear of maniacal regimes leads to either nuclear acquisition or genocide — or 16 acres of rubble in Manhattan.

What have we learned? Tribalism, oil, and Islamic fundamentalism are a bad mix that leaves Americans sick and tired of the Middle East — both when they get in it and when they try to stay out of it.

Let's redeploy all our forces to Israel, tell the Palestinians that they country is being ruled by a tiny minority in Jordan, and then let them all fight it out and be prepared to nuke the hell out of anyone who uses the bomb, and, they will, you can't stop them now, they are so insecure that they will eventually have to prove to someone that they are man enough to pull the trigger, just like they do with their suicide vests.

 

[Ishmael]

Who could possibly be surprised?

For years Europe acted as the safety valve for North Africa and the middle east. The largely ignorant masses, brought about by the fact that they breed like rats, were shuffled into Europe as low end workers to prop up the Social Welfare states that the Europeans created. After 9-11 the Europeans realized that they too had an impending demographic problem on their hands, a problem that is in the process of re-shaping European politics.

The wholesale immigration of these foreign workers was slowed to a mere trickle and the pressure began to build in the cooker. Very fertile ground for organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood. A ready built army of uneducated angry young men to overthrow the dictators and install new masters as taught by Mohammed (PBUH).

It will be interesting to revisit the area in another 10-20 years. The Brotherhood can no more fix the problems facing the masses than the dictators could. They're still breeding like rats, and no sane industrialized nations leader, or corporation looking to expand into developing nations, are going to do business there. In order to keep order the new masters are going to have to become just like the old masters. The developed nations are going to continue to restrict immigration from the area and the pressure in the cooker is going to keep climbing.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

In "The Ordeal of Change" Hoffer is brilliant on why they hate us when we don't help them and why they hate (resent) us even more when we do...



I began rereading it last week for some reason.

The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us.

I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us.
Eric Hoffer

 

[Ishmael]

In "The Ordeal of Change" Hoffer is brilliant on why they hate us when we don't help them and why they hate (resent) us even more when we do...



I began rereading it last week for some reason.

The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us.

I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us.
Eric Hoffer

I have to agree with Hoffer on that point. At some point the realization has to set in that Israel is merely a focus point for the entire areas problems. Israel is not the cause, nor is it's elimination the solution. Should Israel disappear tomorrow the leaders would have to re-focus the rage of the masses elsewhere so as to preserve their own shaky grip on power because all of the problems endemic to the region would remain.

Ishmael

 

[miles]

I have to agree with Hoffer on that point. At some point the realization has to set in that Israel is merely a focus point for the entire areas problems. Israel is not the cause, nor is it's elimination the solution. Should Israel disappear tomorrow the leaders would have to re-focus the rage of the masses elsewhere so as to preserve their own shaky grip on power because all of the problems endemic to the region would remain.

Ishmael

Their leaders use Israel and the US as scapegoats to distract their citizens. Without them their people might actually begin to understand the real reasons behind their own misery.

 

[RobDownSouth]

We Give Up
By Victor Davis Hanson
March 8, 2012 12:00 A.M.

...So after removing the Taliban, who had hosted the perpetrators of 9/11, we promised in 2001 to stay on.

Victor Hanson speaks with forked tongue. Small wonder that our situational Native American AJ quotes him so much.

 

[miles]

I earn $25 each time T-Bobby posts right after me.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I have to agree with Hoffer on that point. At some point the realization has to set in that Israel is merely a focus point for the entire areas problems. Israel is not the cause, nor is it's elimination the solution. Should Israel disappear tomorrow the leaders would have to re-focus the rage of the masses elsewhere so as to preserve their own shaky grip on power because all of the problems endemic to the region would remain.

Ishmael

Their leaders use Israel and the US as scapegoats to distract their citizens. Without them their people might actually begin to understand the real reasons behind their own misery.

I concur. The Tea Party is currently being used in the same manner (something some of you might remember that I predicted in the beginning); this give the Democrats (thank you Senator Snowe) we're not talking about All Republicans, just those "radicals" that control, the Party, thank gawd WE are moderate centrists...




[VOICE=Maxine Waters][TONE=Hushed Whisper] I see demons... [/TONE][TONE=Hysterical]

"I saw pictures of Boehner and Cantor on our screens (at the convention). Don't ever let me see again, in life, those Republicans in our hall, on our screens, talking about anything. These are demons!" [/TONE][/VOICE]
Maxine Waters

The big lesson for me [working at NPR] was the intolerance of so-called liberals. I say intolerance because I grew up as a black Democrat in Brooklyn, N.Y., and always thought it was the Archie Bunker Republicans who practiced intolerance. My experience at NPR revealed to me how rigid liberals can be when their orthodoxy is challenged. I was the devil for simply raising questions, offering a different viewpoint, not shutting my mouth about the excesses of liberalism — a bad guy, a traitor to the cause.
Juan Williams

“I always use the word extreme. That is what the caucus instructed me to use this week.”
Senator Chuck Schumer

 

[RobDownSouth]

I earn $25 each time T-Bobby posts right after me.

I was talking about AJ, Miles Ben Zonah. Pay attention.

 

[miles]

$50.

And stop humping my leg.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I earn $25 each time T-Bobby posts right after me.

You get double when he goes into the usual Democrat patter about Zionists...

Gays

Niggers

Pedophiles

.
.
.

 

[RobDownSouth]

You get double when he goes into the usual Democrat patter about Zionists...

Gays

Niggers

Pedophiles

.
.
.

Thank you for the ad hominem so early this morning AJ. What a splendid example you must be setting for your "children".

 

[miles]

You get double when he goes into the usual Democrat patter about Zionists...

Gays

Niggers

Pedophiles

.
.
.

He's like a bratty toddler....he'll say or do anything to get attention - positive or negative. Poor fat bastard...he's stuck with himself.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

He's like a bratty toddler....he'll say or do anything to get attention - positive or negative. Poor fat bastard...he's stuck with himself.

In my experience so far, his positive is most people's negative, his negative is positively Maxine Waters...

[VOICE=Maxine Waters][TONE=Hushed Whisper] I see demons... [/TONE][TONE=Hysterical]

"I saw pictures of Boehner and Cantor on our screens (at the convention). Don't ever let me see again, in life, those Republicans in our hall, on our screens, talking about anything. These are demons!" [/TONE][/VOICE]
Maxine Waters

 

[miles]

In my experience so far, his positive is most people's negative

He has a positive?

 

[semen4her]

Americans — left, right, Democrats, and Republicans — are all sick of thankless nation-building in the Middle East.

LMAO!

Nation building...lol

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The "All About Me" Administration...

If the administration were serious about achievement rather than appearance, it would have warned that this was the last chance for Iran to come clean and would have demanded a short timeline. After all, President Obama insisted on deadlines for the Iraq withdrawal, the Afghan surge and Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. Why leave these crucial talks open-ended when the nuclear clock is ticking?
Charles Krauthammer