The mechanics of drawing a line.

[anon606]

The story is written in first person.

What guidelines could I use to separate her narrative from her thoughts?

Here, a moment where I think I got the line right:

[A bottle exploded against the joist over his head, raining glass and beer down on him. 'Oh wow,' I thought, as I saw her pointing at the guy, 'When did Jen move?'

Here, where I'm not sure:

[I walked to the workstation monitor. There it was, the tabulation of my debt. The financial measure of what I had done. 'Seven dollars for a blow job.' I thought. 'I've been here five months and I couldn't suck this much dick in a lifetime. It appears that either I've been an insanely overpaid housekeeper or a damn professional whore.']

Finally, here where I haven't a clue:

['Oh crap,' I thought, ' "like a husband" he had said.']

I could have written:

[Oh crap. "like a husband" he had said.]


Suddenly a telepathy story is a scary prospect.

 

[sr71plt]

First, if you are writing American system, you should not use the single quotes for anything except the second level within double quotes. If you are writing British style, you're on your own on that, because the British rules are very convoluted, and I don't know them all.

In the instances you give, I wouldn't put any quotes around the thoughts and I'd use double quotes for the spoken dialogue. Amercian standards (and Lit. is an Amercian system-based Web site) would support this choice.

 

[glynndah]

Some writers here use italics for thoughts.

 

[anon606]

Thank you both for helping.

Your answers, in fact, clarify the question.

sr71plt says that there is no difference between the narrative and the thoughts in a first person story.

glynndah says there is.

While I like the simplicity and intellectual rigor of the first answer, I am drawn to the art of attempting the second - if I can find a way to separate thought from narrative that enhances the story. It's not so much the punctuation or type style - which is an unavoidable decision - but deciding which one is which.

As the draft reads now, I've been using the single quoted thought to bring the reader into the sharp instant from the dulled experience of the past tense. I'm unsatisfied with my arbitrary decisions.


You know, if we were serious about teaching writing in high school, we'd make them write porn.

.

 

[Handley_Page]

The use of Italics can make it easier for the reader, who [upon seeing italic script] will immediately know that it's a thinks, not a speaks.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

In this case, not only is sr technically correct (or at least I assume he is, since I'm pretty sure he can recite the CMS backwards and in his sleep), but I think his approach would be far easier for you and your readers.

For you, I think you might find yourself tripping over your words as you try and determine what counts as a thought in first person and what doesn't. Using your example:

I walked to the workstation monitor. There it was, the tabulation of my debt. The financial measure of what I had done. 'Seven dollars for a blow job.' I thought. 'I've been here five months and I couldn't suck this much dick in a lifetime. It appears that either I've been an insanely overpaid housekeeper or a damn professional whore.'

Why is that last sentence a thought? It's more of a commentary than a thought. And if you really do think it's a thought, then why isn't "the tabulation of my debt, the financial measure of what I had done" a thought, too, since that seems to be just as much of a thought as the last sentence?

As for your readers, isn't the entire point of first person is to be inside someone's head and to see the events unfold as one main character does? There is no difference between what is happening and the character's thoughts--all actions are "translated" by the first-person narrator, and thus impacted by his or her thoughts.* By setting thoughts off by italics or quotes, you are creating a false distinction.



*In case that isn't clear: when I read "I walked to the monitor" in a first-person story, my assumption is that the narrator thinks he or she is walking (or, perhaps, would like to believe that he or she is walking); another observer in the room--or an impartial narrator--might think the character is stumbling (or running, or staggering). There is no impartial observer in a first-person story; in this case, walking is filtered through the narrator's thoughts, whether consciously or not. This is why I think it would be incorrect to set some of those thoughts off. Then again, maybe I'm over-thinking things.

 

[anon606]

AHA! You've seen the problem.

Yes, farther down the thread I added a comment addressing that question: I'm using that 'false distinction to draw the reader closer to the instant.

You're dead on.

And you agree with sr71plt, that no distinction should be made.

Thank you.

Please, comment further if you think of something.

 

[sr71plt]

sr71plt says that there is no difference between the narrative and the thoughts in a first person story.

I really have no idea how you reached this conclusion. Neither one of us posting anything remotely connected to this.

First, there no difference in what you'd do in first, second, and third.

Second, what we both gave as a solution--mine sanctioned by the major American system authority and Glyn.'s not (but some publishers do use her method, and it seems a clear approach to me)--were technical "how to do it" responses. Neither had anything to do with whether there was a difference between narrative and thoughts.

 

[anon606]

Correct, neither of you addressed my question directly. I asked it badly.

You're both thinking punctuation and type style. That's not the question at all.

In a first person story, the narrative IS the character's thoughts. In your response, there is no difference in how such things are presented, then the reader wouldn't be able to discern one. If the reader can't tell the difference, then there is no difference.

In glynndah's response, she allowed for a difference, but no guidance on how to select what should be presented as one or the other, which is what I meant to ask about.

In a third person story, the narrative is separate from any character's thoughts by definition.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If the narrative IS the person's thoughts, then there's no need to seperate them. You could write it thusly;

I walked to the workstation monitor. There it was, the tabulation of my debt. The financial measure of what I had done.

Seven dollars for a blow job. I'd been here five months and I couldn't suck that much dick in a lifetime. It occurred to me that either I'd been an insanely overpaid housekeeper or a damn professional whore.

or,

I walked to the workstation monitor. There it was, the tabulation of my debt. The financial measure of what I had done. 'Seven dollars for a blow job,' I thought. 'I've been here five months and I couldn't suck this much dick in a lifetime. It appears that either I've been an insanely overpaid housekeeper or a damn professional whore.'

(please not that there can only be ONE period in a sentence, and when part of your sentence is reported conversation-- or thoughts in this case-- that section has to end with a comma, or anything other then a period)

 

[sr71plt]

Correct, neither of you addressed my question directly. I asked it badly.

You're both thinking punctuation and type style. That's not the question at all.

Yes, you asked it badly, compounded by giving examples that helped the assumption that you wanted to know how to render both thoughts and spoken dialogue in the same sentence.

I don't see any relevance to anything on what you seem to be thinking you're asking, so I'll give it a pass.

 

[anon606]

This is frustrating.

Out of 5 people answering, only one saw the question.

Damn. I suck.

Thank you, LettersFromTatyana.

For the rest, from I comment I hoped would clarify at 9:52:

"As the draft reads now, I've been using the single quoted thought to bring the reader into the sharp instant from the dulled experience of the past tense. I'm unsatisfied with my arbitrary decisions."

Perhaps, by long practice in writing, you have forgotten but one actually *thinks* in the present tense. Presentation of narrative in the past tense is a convention, a thing that is normally done.

Maybe it's just me, but I find being cut to be a far sharper experience than remembering being cut.

If you can't see any difference, then it's not working.

.

 

[sr71plt]

Perhaps, by long practice in writing, you have forgotten but one actually *thinks* in the present tense. Presentation of narrative in the past tense is a convention, a thing that is normally done.
.

That has nothing to do with whether the story is in the first person or the third person. You can have thoughts in third person stories. Do some reading and you'll see how they work.